The Righteous Gemstones: A Deep Dive into Faith and Folly

Joshua Noel: 00:01:32

Have you ever owned a gold plated Bible, been at a wave pool baptism, or won the top Christ following man award? If you have, you might be one of the Righteous Gemstones. If not, maybe you're like us and just really enjoy the TV series from hbo. Max.

Righteous Gemstones. That's what we're gonna be talking about today. We're gonna have a lot of fun with this one. It's been a long time coming.

Whenever your fandoms directly criticize your faith, you're like, well, that's pretty much what the show's about and that's pretty much what our podcast wants to talk about. So here we go. The perfect match. We might just rename this to the Righteous Gemstones Podcast.

We want, but we might get all golden mics if you guys give enough on Patreon. So consider. Consider that.

Evan Garcia: 00:02:20

And white wigs.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:21

Oh, man, I can't wait for this episode. We're gonna have a lot of fun. I am Joshua Noel. I put Labradorite as my. My ge.

That's my subtitle today because it's one of the cheapest ones that still looks good. I am here, of course, with our fellow geekologist, the one who really started it all.

If you dig into the lore of systematic ecology, you want to dig a little deeper as a keyologist, you'll know more about Will Rose. Thank you for joining us, Pastor Will. What a fun episode for a pastor to be.

Will Rose: 00:02:54

Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:56

My pastor nonetheless.

Will Rose: 00:02:58

That's right.

And I claim, even though my voice isn't very righteous right now, I will say that I feel both righteous and sinner, as Lutherans like to embrace the both end of saint and sinner at the same time. I'm both righteous and sinner at the same time.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:16

See, I thought you were going to tell us that you were shouting in tongues and lost your voice as you threw people into a wave pool in a spectacle. Spectacle baptism, you know. Yeah, that sounds Lutheran. That's not Lutheran at all. We don't even do full immersion baptism. Right?

Will Rose: 00:03:32

As a surfer who likes waves, I don't mind doing a baptism in a wave pool. I might just ignore a person being baptized and catch a wave, but who knows?

Joshua Noel: 00:03:42

That's fine. Also here with the one, the only, Evan Garcia. Where's my payday? How's it going?

Evan Garcia: 00:03:49

Where is my payday?

Joshua Noel: 00:03:51

That's how I feel too.

Evan Garcia: 00:03:52

Yeah, that's a good stuff. Good stuff. Same with my voice. It's not very righteous today. Sorry about that, guys, but we'll be getting into some righteous foolery here with.

With this stuff. Can't wait to talk about it.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:09

See, y' all plan on being righteous. I plan on getting indignant. I was about to start quoting a really cheesy Christian song.

Evan Garcia: 00:04:17

I know what song you're gonna go. You should have kept going. You should have kept going.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:23

That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah, man.

Oh, and of course, we are also here with the one, the only Kevin Schaefer, the only one to put a vote in for Cardinal Baby Billy to become Pope. How's it going, Kevin?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:04:36

I think that. Wouldn't that be awesome? I mean, no diss to the newly elected Pope, but also, no. This was actually.

Will sent me a reel about this where it was like a meme about Baby Billy getting elected Pope and the whole world is cheering. The amount of, like, Baby Billy Instagram reels I'm getting in my feed right now makes me really happy.

Because as soon as you like one, the algorithm sends you more. And I love that that character is becoming more and more popular in pop culture now.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:05

Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Speaking of the reels, we like that we keep getting fed in our algorithms.

If you guys rate and review or comment on our show for Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it'll put it in other people's algorithms. Or even better, if you review our show on Podchaser or GoodPods, that puts it in, like, Google Search and those kind of other search algorithms.

And I'll help other people find our show, which we'll be really grateful for, as we're probably about to get a super borderline sacrilege, probably this episode, because it's hard to talk about the show without getting here. But since we brought up the Pope, I do want to mention my other podcast, the Whole Church Podcast. I haven't recorded it yet.

By the time this releases, it's probably already out.

I am doing an episode with Professor Chris Moreland, who is a devout Catholic who knows a lot about all this stuff, and we're going to be talking to him some about the new Pope, as well as Pope Francis legacy and that kind of stuff. So if you guys want to learn more about real popes, you can go over there. But if you want to hear more about Baby Billy, stay right here.

Stay right here, man. What I've been geeking out on, though, first, I gotta say again to the Instagram reels, man.

Since I started liking and be more open about Kingdom Hearts, like, most of mine are Kingdom Hearts now. My favorite the other day, I Have a meme. And it's from like the second game.

Because you know how games do, like, they set stuff up where you have to do like a little side mission and we need to do side missions to get money. And you're playing as like middle schoolers, I guess they're like, wait a minute, we forgot we're broke.

I think that single scene as a meme, this might be my favorite thing because I just need to print it out and put it on my window. But I'm sure a geek out moment.

And what I'm actually geeking out on continuously, I'm cheating because this is my one week off between spring semester and summer semester. So I'm geeking out on a lot. My geek moment. I got to go to the beach and I was having fun.

And I always wake up before everybody else, for the most part, unless I'm with specific groups of people. And I'm up early. We have a little balcony that oversees the beach. I go out there with my Steam deck and I'm like, I'm gonna play.

I've been going back through Ratchet Clank Rift Apart to try to get 100% on everything. So I had to get all the collectibles and stuff. And I went to the pirate level while I'm sitting here on the beach to find the golden bolt.

And that whole experience was great. Just blowing up robot pirates looking for a golden boat, sitting there with the ocean waves in the background. Like, this is. Yeah, yeah, it was great.

But what I'm continually to geek out on. I mentioned a lot last year about this book. I really liked the Kamagawa Food Detectives. Will was there when I found it.

I discovered that that was part one and that there's two more parts. So I'm going to be finishing up that series soon because it's phenomenal.

Really great Japanese literature on people looking for old family recipes or something. And they can't figure out exactly how it happened. And this detective goes and finds old family recipes and what made them taste the way they did.

And it's especially if you like food. Phenomenal read. I want to get Mark Flower to talk to me with it at some point. But that's a thought for later times.

Will, what have you been geeking out on?

Will Rose: 00:08:19

Man, I'm the same. It's summertime, so the water is ocean. Water has gotten warmer. I no longer have to wear a wetsuit. So I've been doing a lot of surfing.

Hopefully by the time time you listen to this episode, I am either flying or In Hawaii or back from Hawaii, taking our family vacation. Taking my mom, maybe catch a wave. So I'm geeking out on surfing World Surf League. The. The pro surf league is. Is in full swing. Been watching that.

Getting hyped. So. So, yeah, everything. Ocean beach, summer surfing. That's where I am right now.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:52

Sweet. Sweet. You plan on playing any ratcheting clank, getting gold bolts or anything?

Will Rose: 00:08:57

No, not at all.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:59

My favorite. Guys, I hate to keep doing this, but I was going through the level and I didn't notice that they have a theme park there.

Ratchet and Clink is just all satire. That's all it is.

And they just decided to basically make a mock version of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride in Disney World in the middle of this video game for absolutely no reason. And you go by, and there's the little robots behind the prison gate trying to get a robot dog to give me the key. And I'm like, this is great.

This game understands my soul. When.

Will Rose: 00:09:31

When there are things that makes Joshua giggle, it's contagious. I giggle too. I have no idea most of the time what he's talking about, but if it makes him happy and brings him joy and he giggles, I giggle too.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:44

I almost did the screen share thing where I could do, like, the whole video of my last five minute playing just so I could send it to you guys on Discord. And I might. I might go do it again. I might go replay that just so I can send it. Kevin, man, what you been geeking out on?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:09:58

So I'm rewatching all of the Mission Impossible movies in light of the Final Reckoning coming out this weekend, which I'm very excited for. I mean, it's. It's one of the most, like, ridiculously plotted franchises out there.

I just go for, okay, what crazy stunt is Tom Cruise gonna do in this one? And that's not to say there isn't solid writing in some of them, not all of them, but there are some really good character moments. And it's.

I mean, Fallout is still my favorite, and I think it's pretty universally loved as, like, the number one for most people. But.

But yeah, it has, you know, some highs and some lows, but it is a consistently enjoyable, over the top action movie franchise, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing the final one on screen. And also, Josh, I know I mentioned this in a previous episode, but I was wondering if you knew about it yet.

But there's a How I Met yout Mother rewatch podcast that I'm Listening to every week hosted by Josh Radner and then Craig Thomas, the co creator. So I highly recommend. Because I know you're a huge fan of the show as well.

Will Rose: 00:11:00

Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:01

I saw that. I was struggling with whether or not I want to, because I.

I love Scrubs and I loved the rewatch for a while, but then there were some stuff they revealed about some episodes that kind of ruined the episodes for me that I'm like, I don't know, Do I want to just let it stand on? Which is also how I feel about the show.

We're going to talk about today, where I'm like, do I want to watch young gemstones, or do I think that this show's perfect as is and I don't want to risk anything spoiling it. I don't know.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:11:23

That's fair. I don't know.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:25

But I'm tempted and I probably will end up watching that, listening to that. I just love how I make mother too much.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:11:30

That's the thing. It's just really good. It's more a celebration than, like, of the show and, like, analyzing, like, why people love it so much and a reflective look.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:39

Yeah. Which also, I don't want to get stuck on this.

But also I might do it for the other reason of how your mother gets harder to watch the more culture progresses. And you realize how some of those stuff just was not okay.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:11:52

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:52

And it's like, I still want to enjoy the show, so maybe someone just doing a little bit of apologetics would help me.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:11:59

And they do address that. They're like, we know some stuff has not aged well. And, I mean, it's a different time and. Yeah. And a different state of tv, too.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:07

Yeah. Which that's true of most things, except for specifically Green Day's American Idiot. That just gets better every year somehow.

It gets better every single year. Evan, where we at, man?

Evan Garcia: 00:12:19

Good, man. I'm still. I'm still writing the high off of Andor season two. I'm still seasoned, I'm still chatting about it online and still with friends.

It's pretty busy because we're down to the last a week or so of school for the kids, so trying to wrap that up. And my podcasts are still going strong. There's. I keep getting that apologist slash Bible scholar Wesley Huff in my feed. And because he's making.

He's making waves, and I'm like, why am I seeing this? And then all of a sudden, I see my friend from when I was in high school commenting on something. I'm like, oh, wow.

So I kind of reconnected with a friend through that, so that was kind of cool.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:12

Oh, nice. Yeah, ironically, that's, that's actually how we, we met Evan. It's because he commented on some of those other podcasts.

I was like, wait a minute, we're in relationship with like some of these. And let' to Evan. And I'm like, actually, I really like this guy. And here we are, now we're friends. That's how it works.

Evan Garcia: 00:13:26

I love it. Thank you.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:27

Podcast world is wild. Speaking of the podcast world and Bible scholars, another show that's going to be maybe a limited run, maybe a seasonal run.

We'll see on our network, the Amazon Podcast Network. Christian, Ashley and myself are going to be going through a book about a divine genocide. Yeah, it's a four view book.

I don't remember the title at the top of my head right now, but you can be looking for it. The title of our podcast on it is going to be Turning the Page on Divine Violence or Divine Genocide.

I haven't decided which of those two yet, but we do have some biblical scholars and stuff lined up to help us do our review of this book. We're going to be going through chapter at a time and it's going to be a lot of fun, so be on the lookout for that.

Evan Garcia: 00:14:13

I will.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:14

Yeah, I think it'll be a good time. Maybe will jump on afterwards to be like, and here's why this guy in my congregation, Joshua Noel, is a heretic.

Now we'll see who knows, who knows what you'll say.

Will Rose: 00:14:26

It's a long table with many voices. But you know, you have been known to be the one with the bad opinion. So we'll see, we'll see what happens if that tracks. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:35

What's fun?

From what I can tell, and I haven't got too much into the book now Tremper Longman the Third is on there and he's a friend of mine as well as Pete Enz. For those who know Pete N. He is pretty conservative in my book, but I think he's supposed to be the progressive view of the foreign there.

So I'm like, oh geez, I might have an interesting time getting through this. We'll see, we'll see. I know that view. 1 I strongly disagree with.

And if that's a good lore for you guys, be looking for that podcast Turning the page on we'll say divine violence for now and if I change the name, you'll know. But with that, I do want to say if you want to help us get those golden mics we talked about again?

You can support our show, be one of the sponsors on Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon. Today, we're going to shout out Jonathan Augustin. Thank you, Jonathan. We might even give you your own golden mic once we get to that.

That like 1 million a dollar a month patron goal, you know. And remember, guys, if you want your own shout out, like, Jonathan, you too can support our show for $3 a month on one of those three platforms.

Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon. $3 a month is less than I spend on energy drinks. And I believe in you guys. If half of our listeners do it, as Will says, we'll be rich.

I think that's what he said. Just like the righteous gemstones. We're jumping into the episode now.

I want to know before we get to the do the show, the good stuff, this show, for those who I'm gonna give, like, a brief premise and we'll do a full premise earlier, later. It's like televangelist rich pastors, like, if you follow, like, the Instagram account, like, what's it.

The pastors with cool shoes, whatever it's called, y' all know. Y' all know what I'm talking about.

Evan Garcia: 00:16:11

Sneakers. Preachers and sneakers.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:14

Preachers. Sneakers. Yeah, yeah.

Will Rose: 00:16:16

These.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:16

These are the kind of people who would probably be on that Instagram, you know, they're rich people. They're kind of assholes. This is gonna be an explicit episode. Joshua put that in the notes. But, like, that's who we're dealing with. They.

They kind of, for me, they version, like, megapastor televangelist and then, like, the absurd Pentecostals and someone who grew up Pentecostal. I'm like, I see some of it, and some of it, I'm like, no, you guys are. That's. That's not really what it's like. Y' all missed that a little bit.

And then some of the stuff, I'm like, no, unfortunately, that's. That's pretty spot on. We also do have to do a disclaimer.

One of our other hosts, Elizabeth Clyde, is married to Taylor Clyde, who is a worship leader for Faith Assemblies of God in Somerville area that is technically a megachurch. I like them, I support them, even though theologically I very much disagree with them.

I don't think they're the kind of people this show's talking about from my experiences there. But I do want you guys to know that we do have a connection to a megachurch.

Before we talk about anything else, because I don't want to be hypocrites. So with all that said, I think we should get into, before we get to the show, our own experiences.

Especially I hate to say this now, guys, remember, I grew up a lot of my early church years was in Florida at a Pentecostal church in Assemblies of God. So when I say this, I don't mean no disrespect, but Evan, as someone who lives in Florida, I feel like you probably got some wild stories.

Evan Garcia: 00:17:39

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:40

What's some of the wildest stuff you've seen in church?

Evan Garcia: 00:17:44

I grew up for my formative years was very Pentecostal. I remember the whole scene. And then just one Sunday, what if.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:54

We went to the same church?

Evan Garcia: 00:17:56

I was wondering that. And then just one day in the 90s, we went to a Baptist church without any warning. I was like, wait, what is this place? This is so boring.

But it's kind of cool. So I grew up in the Baptist in the Southern Baptist churches in South Florida in that whole scene. And.

And when it merged into the non denominational flavor, I stuck with it. We were still there.

And in my 20s, pretty much all of my 20s was used up being taken advantage of because I have a bunch of spare time and I'm kind of an adult and I have some skills. So I gave my skills to the church for a long time. And so I have a lot of crazy stories about. I don't want to get off. But what was the question?

Joshua Noel: 00:19:04

Just some of your craziest stories.

Evan Garcia: 00:19:06

Yeah. Like tigers on stage. There's a whole.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:12

Wait, what tiger?

Evan Garcia: 00:19:13

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:14

Praise God. Okay. That's all. I don't need any context.

Evan Garcia: 00:19:19

The huge.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:21

He.

Evan Garcia: 00:19:23

Because.

Because I would serve and the pastor was very much into Walt Disney at the time and he heard that, that one story about Walt Disney bringing in the elephant to the, to the meeting for something. So he thought he would bring the tiger. I'm like, bro, you're not Walt Disney.

Will Rose: 00:19:40

Sure, same thing.

Evan Garcia: 00:19:42

There's 24 hour dominoes, a terminant on stage. I saw Batman fall from the roof like 20ft up.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:54

I didn't know you saw me do that.

Evan Garcia: 00:19:56

Yeah, yeah, now I know who that was. But yeah, there's a whole scene. And the righteous gemstones is a exaggeration of it, but it's not too far off. It's not too far off. There's.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:11

Yeah, yeah. Excuse the wall. Yeah. I never had any. Any tigers. Never any tigers.

I kind of want to go last because I was pursuing ordination in A Pentecostal church for a while. So I actually have some stories of myself that I want to tell on and maybe add a little bit of nuance to this before we get into it.

So I'm going to go last, if that's okay with Kevin and Will. Will, as a pastor, I kind of. I'm excited to hear some of yours. Although you grew up Lutheran, so I don't know how crazy.

Did y' all ever bring, like, a shark on stage or anything?

Will Rose: 00:20:43

No.

Like, the craziest thing that would happen in Lutheran church growing up is like, someone would clap after a sermon and everyone would look at that person and be like, what are you doing? Why are you clapping?

So, yeah, the controversy and scandal of clapping after a music presentation or offertory by the choir that was debated within my church. The chosen frozen of the Lutherans. No, I didn't grow up mega church or kind of Pentecostal or charismatic. It was Lutheran through and through.

But my first call was in Florida, South Florida, and our Lutheran church there. I was, you know, fresh out of seminary. The people who have been there, been a long time built up that church, God bless them.

But they were surrounded by a lot of kind of mega churches and. And kind of South Florida amusement park, Disney fied Americana around them. So it was like, how are we going to get attention?

How are we going to be like the church down the road? So I feel like that church.

And I was taking notes, I was looking at a distance, and as a youth pastor there, how do you compete with the church down the road? How do you get attention? How do you compete? Yeah, how do you compete? And so that church did some things where they were.

And for me, fresh out of seminary, idealistic young pastor, I was like, what are we doing?

But I did see there, I guess it wasn't crazy, but at one point, because at South Florida, you don't experience winter or the seasons during a holiday season. They did have a fake snow machine blow. What it looked like snow in the sanctuary while worship was going on. And I'm like, okay.

These kind of special effects in church is something that I grew up with and really took me back. But yeah, that whole model of marketing Jesus for the benefit of people's souls was something that was a little new to me when I was.

When I was down in Florida.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:47

Yeah, yeah. And Kevin, what about you, man?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:22:50

So I grew up Southern Baptist, so I have plenty of all kinds of just, you know, obviously fire, brimstone messages, all that, but not a mega church. At the time, I Do have experience with mega church.

Unfortunately, I was never like, a member of one, but, like, kind of like drifted around like churches. I was like, sort of like going to one for a while, but in the church I grew up in, you know, it was just.

Yeah, it was very rigid, conservative culture. And one of the things I just thought of that I laugh at is, you know, so, like, around Halloween, you couldn't say that it was Halloween.

They had to, like, make up alternative names for, like, the celebrations around that time. I think they call them, like, fall festival or whatever. And, like, what? I.

I just remember one year, like, you know, you couldn't wear any Harry Potter costumes or anything like that, but I. But. Right, Exactly. But I just remember when I was like, like, oh, I. I dressed up as Terminator one year and no one said anything. So, like, I.

I was like. I think, exactly.

I was like, in high school there and I was like, and I won't say anything there, but if I had brought a wand, that would have been the end of the world. But, yeah, so I had that. I'd say, I mean, yeah, we didn't have any, like, lavish productions and stuff, but I was in some very cringy church plays.

I'm sure we could all relate to that. Where. Oh, gosh, the. Just the dialogue you have to read at those.

And I mean, I mean, because I still did them because I was a theater kid growing up, so, like, I would do the church ones and then I would do, like, actual plays at school. But, yeah, just doing some of those were quite hilarious.

And then, yeah, and then my megachurch experience is just like when we left that church when I graduated high school due to a very long story there. But I, like, I had gone to a megachurch for a while in my twenties when I was. But I was never really connected there.

And then my nail in the coffin with that was when a public scandal leaked about it. So. And then I wound up at a very progressive church now that I love and all the people there. So it's been a full cycle for me.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:49

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Will has one more thing.

Will Rose: 00:24:52

Yeah. I will say that as Lutherans don't really exemplify mega church model of church and worship.

Every three years, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America does a national youth gathering. And so all the youth in America gather in, like, a big dome to do church together and workshops and hear speakers.

And so that's kind of Lutherans, elca, Lutherans doing mega church model. And so there are, like, worship praise ban, big banners and movie Screens and things like that. And I.

I don't know if there's not too many cringy things, but it's not what we usually do on a Sunday morning. That's kind of our way. We do. Mega church is gathering this one as national youth gathering.

But I will say there was one time during, like, Holy Communion, in a dome full of, like, 20,000 kids and youth and adults, somebody ended up like, R B rapping the communion liturgy of the Lord be with you. Yeah. And also with you. And I just kind of looked to my neighbor like, what are we doing? And I was like, you know, the youth liked it.

So I wasn't trying to be too judgy, but. But, yeah, the whole hip hop, rap, the community liturgy was pretty fun.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:04

I mean, the first time I ever heard the Apostles Creed was in rap form. So there you go. We don't do creeds as Pentecostals or Baptists, really. And.

Will Rose: 00:26:14

And I love that Kevin wasn't allowed to be a wizard, but he was. He was allowed to be like an AI killer robot.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:26:19

I love that they didn't turn an eye there.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:22

Yeah. I mean, that's probably just foretelling of our. Of our own times where, you know, conservative churches love AI now, but still hate magic.

You know, you can have an AI program that might, you know, take over the world or feign spirituality in what I would say is probably a sacrilege kind of way. But if you have a rock that you believe has some spiritual significance, even if you grew up Greek Orthodox, you know, the mystic Christians. Yeah.

You're obviously Satan. Yeah. But my experience, we'd be here all day if I went through everything. I'm gonna try and give some of my high and low lights.

I grew up in the kind of family where we push the afterlife so much that, like, this life doesn't matter. So for a majority of my life, everything was about God, heaven. And I so fully believed things.

Like, I would see someone, like, just, you know, we'll say, I'm trying to think of somebody TJ's fun to pick on because he doesn't care and won't listen to the podc. Tj, total lie. And I never heard him forgive.

Like, I would just hound him because I was so constantly afraid that people I cared for were going to end up in hell, like. Like a genuine belief. So, like, it wasn't like I was just trying to be an asshole.

But that does make those beliefs often turn you into an asshole, you know, so that's just where I was so just going through some highlights throughout, you know, how I grew up. I remember there was a time in Florida with this simply to God. We had like a big state conference we went to.

The first time I spoke in tongues was there because I wanted to be like my dad, which I do believe in speaking in tongues. But I also think that that's probably why it happened that time, because I just wanted to be like my dad who spoke in tongues.

Evan Garcia: 00:28:07

Every sort of feeling.

Joshua Noel: 00:28:11

I remember that a lot of the guys stuck into the girls dressing room and then some of the girls got in the guys dressing room and the girls were apprehended and the guys really weren't because, you know, girls shouldn't be temptress or something. And we're like 10 years old. We weren't even doing it for that kind of reason.

We were doing it because like someone told us there's a difference between guy and girl and I want to know what it was. That's literally all it was. But you know, I remember that kind of thing. I remember going up in like those big kind of services.

I do remember one time seeing someone take a bunch of like TVs and video games on stage with a baseball bat and just smashing them all.

And like the point of the message was supposed to be, here's the thing though, like it was someone I know and I care about and their point of their message is they were trying to teach us that like every second counts and you don't need to be wasting on this stuff. You should be spending it on something more valuable. And I'm like, I.

As an adult, looking back, I'm like, I kind of agree with what you're trying to say. But also, man, that was a lot of wasted money and resources and we could have done good stuff with that probably.

But you know, wanted to make a point, wanted to do a whole show. Even myself, I remember in middle school because, you know, I grew up in this kind of environment, kind of learning.

Like if you say you felt something from the spirit, most people just kind of go along. So I remember telling a few girl that I felt like God wants us together. You know, it wasn't like necessarily like I was being evil.

It was just like this was the world we lived in and that's how you spoke, you know, which I look back on and I'm like, that was evil, but I wasn't trying to be evil. I don't know if that makes sense.

And then I remember when I was trying to pursue ordination myself because again, feared of Everyone going to hell one day. I remember picking up Andy Stanley books, different stuff like that. And them teaching. It wasn't just like, you're competing with the other churches.

If you do something visual on church, people are more likely to remember the message, which I remember the message of a guy smashing TVs. It's not wrong. So I remember a few times I preached. I actually wore a pair of Nikes once. And I remember the name of the message was just do it.

I don't remember what I was preaching on, but I do remember that being a thing and me kind of doing some of this stuff, genuinely believing, like, if you do some of this is going to make the message land better, that kind of stuff. But also in that same environment, I remember praying for an animal with a broken limb and seeing it kind of set right before us while we're praying.

I remember myself when I had my accident where I, like, died temporarily, kind of having a vision of like, my friend going through a divorce and having this feeling of like, hey, if you go now, he's going to take over your ministry while he's going through this. And I came back and a month later he got a divorce. And it's just kind of like, I don't want to both ends it. There's a lot of evil.

But I just want to say, like, as someone who's gone through it, I actually do understand where a lot of stuff is going through. I'm as someone who lives in Charlotte, I'm right here where Elevation is.

I know the evils of Stephen Furtick and how much he wants to put on a show and compete with all the other churches and how hard that makes it for other churches who are doing genuine ministry. But I also know Love Week does so much good in our community.

I also know a lot of these small communities that are meeting together, entre elevation, are really forming some strong relationships. And I'm like, yeah, so I don't want to both ends it. But I also feel like we'd be remiss if we just dismissed it all as this is bad, you know, 100%.

Evan Garcia: 00:32:12

I completely agree with you because I'm in that space too, where my experience was so extreme and my thoughts were like that too. But then when you heal from that yourself, you can look back on that and see the good in it. And that's my test with it all now.

It's like, sure, the sermons might be just to get people through the door, but they are providing a service, they are doing good and they are doing Good to the community and everything.

Will Rose: 00:32:55

So I feel, yeah, you know, sermon illustrations and trying to make relevant God's word for a present day context. I think finding ways to have people connect or have people remember your message.

There's nothing wrong with powerful sermon illustrations or props and those kinds of things, I think. But there's a time when you can take it too far and it can get cringy and you're doing it for attention or doing it for the wrong reasons.

And so I think that's what kind of people do. The human condition, our fallen condition, being imperfect and sinners, you know, what's our motivation? What's behind all this?

So I think, you know, I've used sermon illustrations for children's messages and you know, we just came off of May 4th and I use Star wars as kind of a prop to illustrate a depth of spirituality that we're finding in our fandom. And my wife warned me. She was like, hey, don't take it too far. Don't make it cringy. Don't become like a mega church.

This, you know, doing all these things, use it in a way that's still reverence and points to Jesus, not get drawn attention to yourself or other things.

And I think with righteous gemstones, you know, Danny McBride has said in interviews, I've heard him on podcasts and things talk about like, they really don't want to parody Jesus or pick on Jesus or say that religion is bad or Christianity is bad. But sometimes the people that follow these religions that follow Jesus are the absurdity behind it. That's what they're parodying.

The personalities and the people that follow Jesus that take it too far. That's who they're really trying to shine a light on and hope a mirror to of the absurdity of some of these mega churches and what they're up to.

And so I think with the, with the show itself, there is a depth of family and relationships and love and what they're truly hungering for and what they're longing for. And you'll never find, even though, yes, it's rated R, is gratuitous cussing and sex and full frontal nudity.

And this show is not for everyone and not for all Christians, but, or any people of faith. All people. But I think if you go into it knowing that it's rated R, knowing that is going to take things really far and cross lines in certain ways.

But if you look behind of what's going on in the comedy, that will illustrate real world problems and what people commodify Jesus or the church or religion for. I think that's where you can see the critique and the commentary on present day, mainly America and how we had the biggest.

The biggest, the biggest, the loudest, the most popular, the most attended, the most people, the most money. They're the most successful. The prosperity gospel in its full, like, without any. Any hidden, like, agendas. But it's full frontal.

Full frontal prosperity gospel. That's what this is. Full frontal prosperity gospel. That I think that's what they're trying to say.

Whether you agree with his humor or not, I think, I think that's what's going on in the show. And I think in our churches that two truths can be. Can hang out in the same room together. Two things can be right.

Two things can kind of hang out together and have a dialogue. And I think, I think that can go what we grew up with in these religious circles.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two more quick things before we get into it, because I do want to mention. And part of it's because I want to recommend something for people.

One is I'm trying to think of how to do this. I'm just going to lean into one and maybe forget the other. I'm going to be explicit with this because I think it's correct to be.

There's a church in Greenville, South Carolina, Legacy that I've seen do a lot of harm and it's affected a lot of people personally.

To me, I've seen where people, they made up stuff, accusing people so they could kick him out because basically someone disagreed with the head pastor and his ego was just too big for that. A lot of the stuff they teach is pretty close to prosperity Gospel, even though it's not quite there.

But because their church keeps growing, the denomination I grew up in keeps supporting them anyway. And that's part of why I didn't want to be associated with it anymore because I can deal with some theological disagreements.

But supporting something like that, I'm like that to me. That church, to me, I would say, is just evil because I feel like you got to call stuff what it is.

Maybe I am biased because some of my close friends were kicked out for reasons that had to do with this pastor's ego. Including a friend of mine who a lot of people might know, Shamma Morema.

He's talked with me on a podcast about this before he started a podcast, Church Stories. He's done some stuff with veggietales and Fish Fisher. Now the veggietales REM Chick Fil a Song. He does a lot of stuff like that. And he branched off.

Originally he was a youth pastor at Legacy back when they were called College Park. So I've seen a lot of this damage and what it can do and how hard it is for some people to heal from it.

So that's just one thing I'm holding on to with all of this, is just kind of remembering that stuff happens, you know, like that makes sense.

Will Rose: 00:37:49

I think you mentioned that Joshua with. With. With ego. And again, tied a little bit to, you know, we'll get more into Righteous Gemstones, but I think you see where.

What is the family wants or draws them together or what. What's the purpose, you think Amy Lee and the genuineness of her wanting to do good ministry. But.

But when ego and money and power and influence come into play, humans are going to human, and I think that's what's going on.

And when we see churches around us, whether they're small, medium, or mega, the leaders who are in positions of leadership, when their ego gets in the way and becomes about them, that's when it goes off rails. That's when it becomes harmful. That's when it becomes less about Jesus and about who they are and their identity and their ego.

And I've seen that come into play many, many times. And I have a great family and friends and wife who hopefully will not let me become that way, even though I'm tempted all the time.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:45

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And it's not just Pentecostal churches. Other churches have this stuff too. Again, Pentecostal. Pentecostals do a lot of good.

A lot of the best stuff that's happened to me in my life are because time spent in prayer.

And those organizations or people who spoke to me, particularly smaller ones, like up where my granny lived in, like, the hills of Virginia, you know, some of those Pentecostal churches are some of the best people I know go to those. So no diss on them, but we are going to diss churches like the ones ran by the gemstones.

Kevin, could you tell us a little bit what is the premise of the Righteous Gemstone show? And then let's just each say what drew us into the show as Christians.

Maybe people are surprised that we were like, we want to watch this thing where we're talking about how crappy the church is.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:39:26

Yeah. So the Righteous Gemstones follows the gemstone family, which the patriarch played by John Goodman is Eli Gemstone.

He is a really famous megachurch pastor in South Carolina that has been built kind of this mega Church empire over the course of decades. He's a widower. His wife Amy Lou died back in when the kids, I forget which year in the show, but when the.

His three kids were a little bit younger, she was sick, but she was instrumental to his life and to the family's role. And then he has three adult children, Jesse played by Danny McBride, Judy played by Edie Patterson, and Kelvin played by Adam Devine.

And each of them have their own immaturities and their own wrestling conflicts internally.

And, but the knowing that at the beginning of the show that Eli is getting older and probably approaching retirement at some point, the question on his mind is, you know, who will inherit his megachurch empire. Much in the same way that you have like HBO succession.

It's a very different tone here, but, but there are, you know, parallels, parallels to that show.

So Eli is the head patriarch of this mega church family empire that he built with his late wife Amy Lou, who was instrumental to Eli and to the whole family.

And they have three now adult children or Eli has them now, Jesse played by Danny McBride, Judy played by Edie Patterson, and Kelvin played by Adam Devine. And each of them have their own immature.

And you know, the question that is present at the beginning of the show is who will inherit the empire when Eli retires? Because it kind of sets that up from the beginning. But each of them kind of have their own, you know, not to immaturities, but also scandals.

And in the pilot episode there's a big scandal involving Jesse regarding a sex tape that a rival is threatening him with. And so, so that could potentially bring down the entire empire.

And so it's the, you know, that's one of the central conflicts introduced at the beginning.

But also another key aspect of the show is that it plays with different kind of antagonists each season and different stories that all, that all challenge the notion of, you know, how can the gemstones live on and will their legacy survive. But it introduces kind of new villains, new conflicts each season.

And then also a key player that we've mentioned already is Uncle Baby Billy, who is Eli's brother in law. He was Amy Lou's brother played by Walton Goggins. And he also has a key role playing in the evolution of the gemstone church.

And you get to see a lot of great, you know, not just comic relief with them but, but some really interesting arcs there too. So that's kind of an overview. And as far as what got me into the show, I had known about it for a while. I wish I had jumped on it sooner.

I only started watching late last year, and I got hooked right away and binged the first few seasons, and then I was able to watch the final season live as it aired. But, yeah, I had heard about it. It sounded funny. And I had known Danny McBride through some movies. Movies.

And then, you know, he had co written the last Halloween movie saga with David Gordon Green, who was another collaborator on this show. But I hadn't, like, delved into his TV yet. And I was amazed from the beginning of like, oh, my gosh, he's such a good writer.

He's such a good filmmaker. I was just really enamored with the storylines here and the Coen brothers influence and the merging of comedy, horror and drama and satire.

And like you said, Josh, it's. It's a.

Not a, you know, takedown of Christianity or religion, but, you know, you know, satirizes the church's obsession with money and power, which I think is very relevant, but it makes sure just to humanize the characters.

Joshua Noel: 00:43:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For myself, yeah. I think you're good with, like. Like, as far as, like, the premise and stuff goes. I really got into it.

I was bored one day and the wife was at home and I was on hbo and I knew nothing about it. My brain was like, oh, this is going to be the absolute worst preachers ever.

And every now and then, I like listening to stuff that makes me mad so that I remember why I don't want to be like other people. And then I was like, oh, this isn't televangelist. And then it was televangelist. It was just a show about televangelist. And it was comedy.

And I was like, wow, this is not the kind of comedy I usually go for. For me, it feels kind of like Will Ferrell kind of style comedy, which I watch almost nothing with him in it on as much as I can help it.

I just don't like Will Ferrell very much. But I don't know, I guess this one.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:44:32

Bad opinions.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:33

Yeah, yeah, Josh with bad opinions. But this one, I guess just because it was more relevant to. To my own life, which is funnier because I'm like, I. I get it.

I understand why we're making fun of this. Yeah. Anyway, Will, what about you? What drew you in?

Will Rose: 00:44:48

Yeah, I'm a big Danny McBride fan. I like him on Eastbound and Down. Danny McBride is Jesse, and he's kind of the founder and writer of the show.

And so he did Eastbound and Down, which was filmed down in Wilmington. Fun fact. He lived across the street from my parents at Wrightsville beach one whole summer when he was filming a season of Eastbound Town.

When I gave him a head nod in the driveway one day when I was walking out surfing, I was like, oh, Danny McBride, what's up? I ignored him, didn't ask for his autograph. And then he did Vice Principals.

And when I saw this come up on HBO and I heard another podcast from Luther, friends who have a appreciation podcast, they were talking about, you know, they talk about what they're geeking out on a little before they get into the text. Talked about righteous gemstones and some of the funny moments, and I was like, ah, I gotta watch this, and dove right in and.

And yeah, there are moments when it is kind of convicting and you're like, oh, man, it's cringey. I hope people don't say, you know, when I was watching this with my daughter, I was like, I just want to remind you, this is not our brand. Right.

And she goes, yeah, Dad, I know. And I'm like, okay. You know, so I get a little protective of my religion when it comes to that. Not all preachers are like this, but. But I get the.

The Saturday Night Live skit parody, what they're trying to illustrate with what's going on. So I was on board, and it was appointment television every. Every Sunday night.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:57

Yeah. Because I know you have to leave early in case you don't get the chance.

I need to know favorite character, favorite scene, favorite joke, favorite song, because you have a lot of good songs that you like from this. Oh, my gosh.

Will Rose: 00:46:10

All right. So it's hard for me not to pick Uncle Baby Billy because he just so much. He lives rent free in my head. I quote him all day long in my head.

I love his reels, but. But. But kind of a under the radar, kind of sneaky. Great character for me on the show is. Is BJ Judy's partner.

And he is so funny the way he kind of genuinely ask questions and seems kind of innocent, and he's with this kind of obnoxious person. All of them are great and make me laugh and have great moments. But I would say him and.

And that season, season two, when he gets baptized and the buildup to that and like, the family skepticism of him and him trying to be like a part of the family, but he's really an outsider. And the.

And the fact that his family's from Asheville, North Carolina, and so the rest of the family's skeptical towards them because he must be atheists or Heathens, because they're from Asheville, North Carolina, makes me laugh really, really hard.

And then even the final season with him getting like a helper monkey and being in a wheelchair because he fell, pole dancing and then going into depression because the family's not paying him any attention, but then how he rebounds and there's a little redemption art for him. I. I just. I just love him a lot, so. And the actor. The actor, Tim Baltz. Is that how you say Baltz? Maybe, yeah. Liked one of my comments on his page.

He posted something. I was early in his. In his chat, and. And he. He gave me a thumbs up and a heart. So. Yeah. Thanks, Tim.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:33

Thanks.

Will Rose: 00:47:34

Favorite song, Anything that baby Billy does, that whole team just. And him singing that song. And the fact that he didn't like the actor who's playing young Jesus, so he's. He's gonna do it himself.

And he's old and he has receding hairline and glasses and still plays Jesus with, like, these big gaudy rings on his fingers. And. And it's. It's fantastic.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:57

It's comedy called.

Will Rose: 00:47:58

And now this. This type of humor. Will Ferrell. This humor is right up my alley, is everything that makes me laugh. So there you go.

Joshua Noel: 00:48:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Oh, man. Kevin. Kevin. Evan. What. What brought you to this particular series?

Will Rose: 00:48:13

Yeah.

Evan Garcia: 00:48:16

This was a recommendation from a co worker of mine.

He knew that I was a church guy, I was religious, and we had similar tastes in movies and shows, and he brought me into vice principals, and I love that show. And he goes, well, they're making a show about churches. And I'm like, really? So I got gotten into it, and I thank him for.

For doing that because it's perfect. Like, Danny McBride did great, and his. His humor is like. Like Will Ferrell's pretty much. Yeah, yeah. So. But yeah, I thank my coworker for.

For bringing me onto this show.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to.

Trying to get my wife to watch, because as much as she doesn't care about, like, I don't think she would care about the particular world it's about, but it's definitely her kind of sense of humor, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Will said he had one more thing he wanted to say too. Right?

Will Rose: 00:49:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the final season, I loved how they. I really thought that they could have wrapped up with season three.

It was a perfect ending and kind of the ghost of Amy Lee, like, looking at them and kind of being proud of her family that's kind of come together through adversity but they were having too much fun. So I think they wanted to do one final season. There were other seasons and scenarios I liked a little better, but.

But I thought it still had just some fant fantastic moments.

And when Calvin started his church Prism, which was a more progressive example of a megachurch and kind of the spectrum of diversity and human sexuality, I couldn't help but think like, oh, dude, that's the algae beer camp.

They're parodying not only mega churches and fundamentalism and scandals behind those things, but they're also parroting a progressive church and some of the things that were going on there. I was like, dude, that is some of the progressive Lutheran circles. That is some of theology beer camp. So nobody's safe. Kind of like South Park.

They pick on everybody. Nobody is safe from their parody and coming at you.

So kudos to the writers who understand that there's a breadth and depth to all Christianity, not just one archetype of mega churches.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to say on that before we move along with the outline a little bit, because it is something that interests me that this series comments on in season four. You see it with Prism and kind of the more LGBTQ friendly churches. Season two, I think it is maybe season three.

I think it was season two, Judy, with women in ministry and women getting more of a voice was kind of brought up.

Here's what I thought was interesting about the commentary that still bothers me and it's actually what kept me from becoming more progressive for a really long time. You do have a lot of churches that seem like they're just doing it because they want more people in or want to be better accepted by the culture.

And I think that's what this is parroting, where it's like, oh, well, if we have more women, more people will come to our church, or if we do this thing that the culture doing and start affirming people as that and people like me want more reasoning. And that's kind of like part of my. I did that thing where I over corrected when I started leaving Pentecostalism, where I became all intellectual.

Then I read, I think it was Francis Cheney that was like forgotten God.

And I'm like, oh, wait a minute, we are still saying that we believe that the living God that created the universe has something to do with me personally. It's kind of absurd to think that some spiritual things can't happen.

I need that kind of basis where it's not just, oh, hey, this is what the world's doing and this Seems right or this feels right.

Doesn't it just seem wrong to say we don't want to let people love each other, but you get some strong intellectual arguments from like Pete Inns or different people like that. And I'm like, okay, that's the kind of stuff I want. One of the people I respect the most who is still conservative, Trumper Longman iii.

He writes a book like about Old Testament controversies and he verbatim says, I want to support same sex marriage, but from what I see in the text and what I believe about the Bible, I can't make this make sense. And that's where I'm like, I disagree with you, but he's being intellectually honest. And that's what bothers me about a lot of this kind of stuff.

And what makes the show really complicated is like there's some points where they're just not intellectually honest at all. They're just doing what brings more people in.

But then there's moments where you see their personal lives and it really does seem like they have to believe something about this. But also they're able to change their beliefs in order to make more money. And I'm like, where, huh? Do you believe it or do you not believe it?

And I never quite figured that out.

Will Rose: 00:52:52

I hear you 100%. What I like about this show is that you have Jesse's kids who really try to hold him accountable to what they believe.

They see the ridiculousness of it. So you have, um, yeah, you have what is.

Cause you have Gideon who wants to be an actor, but you know, he genuinely wants to follow his, his granddad and maybe there's something there that he wants to become like a legitimate pastor. His dad's looking, he's like, hey man, you're a horrible preacher there in that final season. You know, you gotta liven this up a little bit. But he's.

He. But he really wants to be like a genuine thing. But then you have like his son Pontius. He named his kid Pontius is.

And he's like the rebellious kid who really looks at him like you guys are all like hypocrites and wrong and I can't stand you. That tension of the children looking up to them.

So you not only have the children, Kelvin, Jesse and Judy looking at their dad and critiquing him, they have their own children looking at their parents and going, hey, what are you doing this? Why are you doing this for?

We love the money, we love the attention, we love the lifestyle, but what's really going here with kind of the authentic aspect of your faith or religion here and call them hypocrites. I love that aspect of it. I think you're right that being honest and authentic about it, it's just fantastic. Wr.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:10

Yeah.

What I was talking about also gets to something Kevin mentioned that he loved about the last season on one of our what's News episodes with that first episode. And that's kind of what's interesting is you see like generation for generation.

It seems like the gemstone started off as like this guy stealing someone else's identity, just using ministry to make money.

And it kind of feels like they keep doing that generation to generation, but they're also maybe gaslighting themselves into actually believing it at the same time. And it's so like what, do you believe it? Do you not believe it? I don't think they know.

I really don't think they even know if they really believe this or not, which is fair. You know, a lot of times in my own Christianity, you know, I don't do it for money. I don't make no money. I still am like, do I actually believe this?

I. I'm not sure. Sometimes, you know. Yeah.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:54:56

Again, I think that's what separates the show from making it, you know, turning the characters into characters. They really explore the depth there.

So yeah, like Bradley Cooper's character is a great example as the original patriarch Elijah Gemstone in the Civil War era. Yeah, he's just doing it for money. He, you know, steals already corrupt creatures identity and you know, has no idea what he's doing.

But then he starts to really explore, you know, the end, feels a spiritual connection there and has that prayer moment with the soldiers who are about to be executed. And you know, it has this really fascinating character dynamic. And yeah, I.

Joshua, I think that's absolutely true is it points to something of even the most devout people of faith are still going to have doubts and are still going to have internal struggles that. I really like how the show explores that.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:35

Yeah, no, it's interesting stuff. All right, Will's already done this bit so I'm going to throw it to Evan first who if you had to pick one character.

Because the thing about the show is to me it's less about the overall story and more about each individual character. Like it does a really good job at character building.

Evan, if you had to pick one character that you were like their character arc was the best character arc, who would you go with?

Evan Garcia: 00:56:58

The best character arc as opposed to my favorite character arc? Because those are two things.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:04

Whatever feels best in your heart. Let the spirit guide you.

Evan Garcia: 00:57:07

I don't know. Yeah. A part of me, like, there were so many times where I related to. To John Goodman, to. Oh, what's his name?

Joshua Noel: 00:57:18

Shoot.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:57:19

Eli.

Evan Garcia: 00:57:20

Eli. Where the fact of, like, his kids are just so ridiculous. His kids are just. On a personal level, they're kind of. They're. Yeah, they're gross.

They're bad people. But it's like. And that went with me, too, because I felt for him, because that's kind of out of his control.

Like, sometimes his kids are not put out the best representation of you, and he didn't have the best past. But sometimes I think about that, like, what if my kid becomes, like, worship pastor and does all this, too? Like, well, what will I think?

And that kind of put me in a situation there. But the. I don't know. They were just. All of them were great. I love baby Billy.

He was the perfect blend of Billy Graham, a Benny Hinn, and just that perfection of that whole scene of pastors.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:32

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. It's. It is difficult to pick a favorite. I will say that I can confidently say I was never gonna pick Billy as my favorite.

I didn't necessarily dislike him. It was just like everybody else for me, just stood out more. I feel like I could have done without his bit and been fine.

Although I love that season four, they were like, by the way, he also has a Tesla truck, because of course he would, right?

Evan Garcia: 00:58:55

Oh, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:57

But no, I.

Man, I love Judy and BJ and how they, like, they get divorced in season one and, like, how they come back and how she even gets to a point where, like, the monkey, she gets jealous of that. She's like. Actually, I think you see a lot of character growth with Judy.

Evan Garcia: 00:59:13

Yes, true.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:59:14

Dr. Watson.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:15

Yeah, Dr. Watson. And like you said, Eli's a good one, too.

And a lot of this reminds me of the boys in a way where, like, you know, it's showing that power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So even if you're growing up Christian and you have all this wealth and ability to control things, and if part of your control is people think you're a spiritual authority, it just kind of compounds. And you see that it does corrupt this whole family, it seems like. And I think that's another comment that the show's kind of doing.

But if I had to just pick one again, I do. I love how Eli finally gets to a point in his life where he's like, I don't need this. I just want to be on a boat. And I'm like, I get it, man.

But in hopes that Kevin says Kelvin because everybody else said baby Billy. I'm gonna hope that Kevin says Kelvin so that I can say Gideon story, man, where he starts off and he's, like, estranged from the family.

He ran off because he's gonna go become, like, a stunt performer in Hollywood.

And, like, it turns out in season one that he's actually part of this conspiracy that's gonna undermine the family, and he's gonna steal from his own grandfather all this stuff, and then gets to a point where he goes to Haiti with his dad and he does a mission. And it doesn't seem like it affects Jesse at all, but for Gideon, I think something changes on that mission trip.

And then you see throughout the season, he just kind of grows very gradually. And then in that last season, he's trying to be more like his grandfather.

And what's so interesting with his character is, like, he's teaching and it's boring, but I'm like, but he's actually doing the version of this that you. That should be done. I think you do that, like, 15, 20 minute homily. Let's care about the sacraments. I'm like, I don't know.

I liked Gideon's story arc, and I honestly like his preaching the best. Just gotta say it, man. It doesn't need to be showy. Just teach what's there, dude. Yeah.

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:01:02

So I'm also very excited for that actor to play Jimmy Olsen. Olsen.

Evan Garcia: 01:01:07

Yeah, that's right.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:07

Is he Jimmy Olsen?

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:01:09

Yes.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:10

Fantastic. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:01:13

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:14

All right, Kevin, please say, Kelvin, what's your favorite? What character? Arc?

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:01:18

No, definitely. I mean, I think we all love Baby Billy for, you know, the comedic relay and Wal Goga's performance.

But as far as the character who I related to the most, like, not only because his name is one letter away from me, but, like. But I'm the youngest of. Of three, and I also have an older brother and sister. And, like, you know, I mean, Kelvin's arc and, you know, just like.

Like, I come from a family where I Very close to my family and everything, but, like, you know, like, a lot of them are, like, sports enthusiasts, particularly my dad and brother, and I'm not at all. I always had, like, geeky, you know, theater and movie and comic interests and stuff like that that make it kind of my own.

So I related to that a lot. But I also really like Kelvin's arc of, okay, you're introduced to him.

Him and Keith at the beginning of the series, and you're like, okay, are they lovers? Are they, like, what's kind of gone, you know, like, this guy? And then it's a fat.

Like, this was one of the more fascinating, like, you know, mysteries revealed in season four, when they do the Young Gemstones episode there, where you learn that. So, I mean, yeah, he was always.

I mean, he, like, he was aware of his sexuality early on, but what kind of scared him away was this arc involving Michael Rooker's character, who was. Became a rival of Eli, and he wore a mask, broke into their house.

And this is one night where Kelvin had stayed home while the other kids go out to dinner. And so. And while he's looking at magazines and stuff. And while. Which I.

I thought the best part was, like, he's reading a magazine that said, like, seven More reasons to Love Hayden. And I was like. Like, I was like, I was dying there, but that was awesome. But, like. But it's like, okay, he.

And then this, like, strange, you know, masked man breaks into their house and scares the crap out of them. And he's thinking, like, oh, I'm literally having, like, a demon come into my house because of my sexuality.

And that's why he was, like, repressed for so long. Um, and I was like, oh, whoa. That is a, like, really brilliant, like, story time.

I mean, not as a plot device, but it's just, like, it adds more depth to his character and makes sense for a lot. And so that's why, you know, him and Keith kind of have this, like, closeted relationship for a long time.

And, you know, he comes more to explore his identity, and it's not. It's about sexuality. But also, like, his dad, he's the kind of, like, trying to prove himself of.

Worthy to be a part of, like, his family's legacy and that he has talents and stuff. And, you know, he's like the hippie youth pastor. And it started all this progressive stuff, but.

But when he becomes top Christ following man, which, again, is like, out of all the plot lines that they came up with this show, it's one of the most absurd. But I was dying laughing when that. When they. They have an award ceremony and everything. Yeah, I love Galvan's arc.

I think Adam Devine gives great performance. And, yeah, there's just. There's so much humor there. But there it was one of the more, I think, emotional arcs of any of the characters there.

Just seeing his journey throughout the show and the way he kind of reconciles with his sibling because I get as. As the younger brother, I can relate to being like kind of obnoxious and stuff with my older siblings when I was a kid and all that and, and a lot.

And for these three, you know, like my siblings, I have my matured a lot, lot. But I know with these characters, a lot of them kind of stay in their own, you know, like immature angles and stuff, even to adulthood.

But they work through that and they're able to really come together by the end. And that's what I really liked. But yeah, so Kelvin, I think, has like my favorite arc for me. But I really love all the characters in the show.

There are, there are so many. Just like really fascinating.

Joshua Noel: 01:04:56

Yeah, no, no, I love Kelvin too. That's good stuff. There so much good in the show. I want to. Since we gave Will the chance, I want to do this for us.

And then I got one more wrap up thing before we get to the actual wrap up. If you had a pick, just real quick, a favorite joke, a favorite scene, and a favorite song from the show, what would it be?

I think my favorite joke, as immature as this is, and probably just because of the time I grew up in that I think it's funny, was when the first time that Jesse catches his son and he doesn't quite know what he caught Gideon doing, so he assumes that Gideon's gay for some reason. He's like, oh, you're bi. And then like, you know, he gets confronted and they're like, oh, what are you doing? He's like, I love my bi son.

And I don't know why that was so funny. That's not what this is about at all. Kudos to you. Glad you do. But that's not what's happening.

So his ignorance there just sense makes made that moment particularly funny to me. Favorite scene. What was the other one? Favorite joke? No, that was probably my favorite joke. So my favorite scene.

You know, at first this one irritated me, but I'm gonna stick with this.

Near the end, Eli's reading a note that his former wife, Amy Lee wrote to her best friend that he kind of sees it's a whole thing and it's talking about how like, you don't need a perfect ending to wrap stuff up. And it was just, I don't know, for me, at first I was like, that's irritating. That's just an excuse because you guys didn't feel like write it up.

But then when I think about it, I'm like, no, but that's just.

That's just life, you know, like when you lose somebody or like you move away, there's never like, for the most part, you don't look back and go, that was a good finale to that part of my life. It just kind of ended at some point and you don't even realize when it ends a lot of the time.

So, yeah, it went from a moment that I really didn't like to probably my favorite favorite song, of course, has to be Misbehaving. Billy. Yeah, baby.

Evan Garcia: 01:06:58

Billy.

Joshua Noel: 01:06:58

Yeah, that was just, it was a funny misbehaving. If you're gonna listen to one song, I think it's got to be that. Yeah. Kevin, what about you, man?

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:07:05

Okay, so favorite joke. This is actually one of the reason why it's in the finale. But I think Jesse has some of the best one liners throughout the show when he's in the.

What is the club? The Pistols and something society like. Like it's these like old pastors like in a pistol club.

But anyway, he challenges in a duel to the death with one of this like rival, one of his rivals there who's kind of a jerk. And, and you know, it's in the opening scene. So you know, obviously probably not one of them is not. Neither of them are going to die. Isn't a joke.

And yeah, they're like, no one dies in the duel. But he says something along the lines of like, I, I show mercy to you today, orphan. Like, I mean, like it's something like that.

Like, and I, I, that was there moments like that where, where I think I just like was about to fall over. Like, I mean the way his delivery is just so dry and impeccable. But yeah, just like I have mercy on you, orphan.

You know, like, I mean it was just such a Jesse Danny McBride moment. So that is one of my absolute favorites. And then favorite scene, there's a lot, but also one for the finale.

I do like, I mean, as much as I wanted to see teen just come to fruition and see a trailer for it and everything like that, I.

Joshua Noel: 01:08:24

Want the action to be produced. Yes. Yeah.

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:08:27

Yes, exactly. Exactly. That would be amazing. But I really did like that baby Billy decides to just end it and says like, you know, he says like screw tv. I was.

Because he has this arc of finally seeing what's important and wanting to be with his wife and kids. And it's one other one of the things from the.

When the, when he's first introduced in season one and he has a wife who is like less than half of his age. I was like, okay, this could be another guy who, like, he'll probably go through like, you know, three different women before the show ends.

I actually, I thought it kind of like touching that he and Tiffany stay together and they gave actually her more depth than I would have thought originally. I thought that was. Have been more of a joke kind of thing. And I liked how they evolved that.

So by the end of that, when he decides to give up on his dream of, you know, becoming this like, TV sensation, both as like an actor, writer, director and to spend time with his family, I. I really like that moment. It was really good. You know, Again, I still want to see Teen just as a full show at some point, but.

But I but it from a writing perspective. I liked how they it there and then my favorite song, I have it on a YouTube playlist is the There I'll come a payday.

You know, like, I love misbehaving, but they all become a paid it. Just the way they dress up Bill B. Billy in that scene, he's at this hotel. I was just like, I was dying.

Evan Garcia: 01:09:47

There's no precedence for it. They just.

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:09:49

They just throw you right into it.

Joshua Noel: 01:09:51

We want to do this now.

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:09:51

And it was brilliant.

Joshua Noel: 01:09:52

Yeah. So. So both of your moments also like, I'm sorry to do this, but.

But one of the things the show does so well, it's like, even when they have character growth moments, you never get this moment of like, they were bad and now they're good. One of my other favorite moments in the finale is like, they're praying for this guy who shot them.

There's like an old family friend who now they shot and he's going to die. He's like, just asked for them to pray for him and this big character growth moment because they're praying for someone who tried to kill them.

And during the prayer, you see them all kind of realizing like, oh, life's not all about them. But at the same time, while they're doing that, they're praying, being like, and God, you know, forgive him if he ever made it about himself.

Like, clearly they're making this prayer about themselves while he's dying.

And I'm like, it's so funny because it's like, it is definitely a character growth moment, but they're still kind of oblivious to the fact that they're doing it right then. So it's like they're never perfect. Yeah. Evan, what about you, man? Favorite, favorite scene, favorite joke, favorite song.

Evan Garcia: 01:10:51

There's so many jokes, man. I don't know. There were so many jokes that were just like, quick that. That went by, and you just like, damn, he reset that. Or something like that.

Like, whoa. But the one scene that came to my mind that captures, like, how personal the show can really get, despite being so absurd, is the scene where BJ and.

But they go to Outback Steakhouse to. To kind of fix the relationship because she cheated on the worship guy, the. The.

The guitarist, and she has to apologize for lying that she's been with, like, a million men and that she's only been with one man.

But then she goes to tell the story of her last boyfriend, and it was when she was a teenager and she sexually assaulted her teacher, and she thought that was a real relationship. And I was just like, oh, my God. Like, that suspense, that Arrested Development so hard that you don't know what is reality and stuff like that.

It just goes to show how extreme they can get. But how I still feel bad for her in a therapeutic sense. Like, dang. Like what?

Joshua Noel: 01:12:21

Yeah.

Evan Garcia: 01:12:22

So the show does a lot, and the favorite song was the Payday. Payday was good. Payday.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:31

That's fair.

Evan Garcia: 01:12:32

I wish I remembered more because I saw it as it was coming out, and it's been a few years since I've seen the first season, so it's.

Joshua Noel: 01:12:40

Like, yeah, even the songs that weren't, like, original songs. I was doing an episode that's gonna come out on Memorial Day with Will for some Joyful noise where we're kind of, like, creating our summer playlist.

And so many songs that are on his list are songs that they play, like, as, like, background or soundtrack in this show. So, like, it does have some. Just good songs. Just all around, man. Yeah. Oh, man. This is a civic show.

There a lot that we could have talked about that we didn't, you know, know four whole seasons. You really could probably do a whole podcast just on this show if you wanted to.

We're not going to, but I did want to say, as far as, like, trying to sum up thoughts. So I have another thing I do called Dummy for Theology. It was its own podcast. Now it's part of a different podcast, Be Living Water that I do.

And in Dummy for Theology, I always wrap up instead of three practical icons with three questions to keep thinking on so we can all keep on struggling together. It's kind of like the whole gimmick, right? If you watch the show, you know, Christians who aren't necessarily involved in a megachurch.

If we had to come up with three questions that this left us with to Keep thinking about, well, we can both. We can all come up with one, and that'll give us three, and then us and our listeners can part with these three questions.

I want to know what it would be. I'll go first, give you time to think about it, because this wasn't any outline. I. I want to go with the.

When I think about the show, it's a lot of the flaws and stuff it has, I actually think. And this is kind of weird. Maybe part of their problem is these people don't seem to know the Bible. You know, like, I'm like. I don't.

Like, that's, like, a really conservative takeaway from this, but I'm like, I actually feel like maybe if they were more Bible focused, a lot of this stuff wouldn't have happened. Happened. So maybe my takeaway question is, like, are we spending enough time in the Bible?

I know that's super basic and whatever, but I actually think that's probably important to consider when you're thinking about this kind of stuff. Kevin, I'm gonna put you on the spot. What's our second question?

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:14:43

I would say it revolves back to kind of the origins of both Danny McBride as a story, because he has said that his. The roots of him as a storyteller started when he was growing up in church, and his mom did, like, like, puppet shows and stuff at a.

You know, it wasn't like a mega church, but. But he was able to, like, learn storytelling to that, and that's what kind of led him to this.

And really, you know, get, again, getting back to the themes of, you know, satirizing a lot of the church's obsession with money and power, but also humanizing the character, characters. I would say it's just like, are we listening to each other's stories?

Because I think that's where we can really break down a lot of barriers and understand each other better and hopefully reduce our. Because I. I think all of us, let's be honest, are, you know, have some lust for power inside of us and.

And we have a tendency to view people that oppose us as, like, less than.

But ultimately, if we can just, like, learn from each other and, you know, and listen to each other's stories, we can really better understand each other and grow as people spiritually.

Joshua Noel: 01:16:01

Yeah. Yeah. All right, so we got. That's a good one. Are we spending enough time in the Bible? Are we listening to each other's stories?

Evan, what's our third takeaway question?

Evan Garcia: 01:16:13

I don't know, because you guys kind of stole mine Because I was thinking, both of you guys, I was thinking about that, how the mother was the patriarch of the family and she set the level for them and they just assumed Christianity was the way their mom was. So they didn't. So they didn't really know the Bible. They knew. They just assumed it culturally.

And then you have that other extreme where you only relate to other people's experiences, but you don't get into what the Bible really says. So there's a mix of both. And I think what I'm trying to say is that find out where's your life?

Where's your threshold to when it becomes about yourself? When does it become about the ego? Because we all have it a little bit different. We all have a little threshold for when that becomes about ourselves.

And just pray and fast for discernment. To know when you know that line and when to not cross.

Will Rose: 01:17:32

Awesome.

Joshua Noel: 01:17:32

So like how much of your faith is about yourself? Kind of. Kind of deal.

Evan Garcia: 01:17:38

How much of your faith is a mix of both what you take in and what you process, but then what you output is because you don't want to come across as if like you're saying, don't be be about yourself. But you are about yourself.

Joshua Noel: 01:18:01

Yeah.

Evan Garcia: 01:18:02

At the same time. So.

Joshua Noel: 01:18:03

Okay, okay, I like it. I like it. They've got three solid takeaway questions here. And you know, Evan, here's two.

We could keep doing this all day, but like it draws me into how like this kind of Christianity is like, oh, you can't have statues of saints. You can't have, you know, these kind of stained glass of things other than like specifically Bible stuff.

But then like, they're completely fine with like having little memorial for their mom that they lost. And I'm like, that's the same thing. And it can be used for good or evil.

So it's like, are you just part of the culture inheriting it or do you actually believe the stuff like you said? Is it a mixture? Do we really believe the Bible? Do we listen to each other's stories? I like these questions.

I think just struggling with those three alone, man. Yeah. Can get, get you a long ways. And there's, there's plenty of others takeaway stuff we could pull from this series.

But I think that's a good place to end this as we, we go ahead and we're gonna jump into our wrap up for now. We are gonna ask a bonus question after this is over. It's gonna be a simple one. Which gemstone would you most like to have attend your church?

Will's no longer with us, but I. I'm a member of Will's church, so I can answer for him. There we go.

So this could be a fun one for now that we're going to give a recommendation doesn't have to be about this could be about anything. Kevin, what are you recommending for People right now?

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:19:25

So I was just talking with Evan before recording. I started watching Vice Principals after this. And also a great show that is Also a Danny McBride Co creation stars in.

And I think one of the most fascinating things about it is that both the main characters that Danny McBride and Walter Coggins play play are so unlikable and like, you don't root for them at all. Like, they're pretty horrible people. But it.

That's what's really fascinating about the way the show is told is you can be still be invested in characters who are not likable and you really don't want them to succeed, but you're really invested in the story and it satirizes male rage and really fits in well into a modern sociopolitical context. And it's just, you know, it's. It's entertaining in a different way.

I think Righteous Gemstones is funnier and it's meant to Vice Principals is darker, but it's still brilliant storytelling. So highly recommend if you're looking for something after Righteous episodes.

Joshua Noel: 01:20:20

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it mine. And it's probably gonna be super simple, basic. The new Doctor who I'm gonna recommend. The new Doctor who I'm gonna throw out there.

You know, the first season that Disney did after the three specials with David Dennett that were awesome because of David within it, I loved it, but I wasn't like, I don't know if I would recommend this unless you already love Doctor who, right?

But now we're getting near the end of the second season and really what he did, the season one and season two since Disney took over are really just one long season, it seems like, because he's wrapping up the stuff that he set up in the beginning now in the same way that Russell T. Davies did with, like Bad Wolf when he did the first soft reboot of Doctor who.

And it's done in such a way where I think, like, if you stopped watching after Diva Tended, if you stopped watching even after Classic who, the way this picks up, I think it makes perfect sense in the way it's wrapping up.

There's a big payoff for anyone who's an old Doctor who fan or someone who's Never seen the show before and it's a really good way to just bring people in, I think. So I gotta recommend these first two seasons. Disney Doctor who with Russell T. Davies. He's doing some fantastic stuff.

Evan, what's your recommendation today?

Evan Garcia: 01:21:28

My recommendation was. Is a film. I shouldn't call it a film. It's not. It's a flick. It's a. It's. It's a horror comedy called Y2K by a Kyle Mooney.

Kyle Mooney has this weird, quirky sense of humor that I love. It didn't translate too well to the movie and there's some reasons why, but the movie was too just. Just enough absurd that it was good.

And you can check it out if you want to have just a stupid fun time and have some nostalgia for the 90s because it takes place in. In.

Joshua Noel: 01:22:11

In.

Evan Garcia: 01:22:12

On New year's Eve. Yeah,: 1999

Joshua Noel: 01:22:15

Right when I.

Evan Garcia: 01:22:16

And the premise is that the computers all get together because of the Y2K bug and they try to kill humanity and they have to fight back.

Joshua Noel: 01:22:25

So play really close attention. Everything he just said can totally fall in line in the canon of Futurama.

Evan Garcia: 01:22:31

So in future, robots do seem to.

Joshua Noel: 01:22:34

Destroy the world while he's in that little thing. Anyway, if you guys, if you're on the laptop, consider radio reviewing our show on podcaster or goodbye.

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