The Best & Worst of Disney's Parents (We Love You & There Ain't Nothing You Can Do About It!)

Joshua Noel: 00:01:10

eries for our annual theme of: 2025

Our series being Finding the Good. This is gonna be weird for a couple reasons.

It's not one of our Disney animated episodes, but I did that intro and I'm probably still gonna use that music because I like it. Maybe not. We'll see. No, I am. But anyway. Also, it's gonna be different than finding the good because we're not.

Usually we pick a side and then try to defend the other side. Disney wants us to pick the kid's side.

So instead we're gonna try to find the good in Disney's parents throughout their movies as we're gonna have fun time with it. Both Pixar and Disney animated films are on the ground here because I didn't feel like playing ref in case my co host accidentally said Pixar.

Wait a minute, that's not technically Disney. So I'm not going to be that geek today. If you want that geek, come back another day. I'll do that. I can do it. I'm just not doing it today.

I am, of course am Joshua Noel, probably the biggest dis nerd of the group, although Evan's giving me a run for the money. And today I am here with the one and only. I was going to say one of the only dads, but we've gotten a lot more dads on the group now. We sure do.

Will Rose: 00:02:38

The lots of parents.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:39

Most rounded head of the fathers of Systematic Ecology, the one and only Pastor Will Rose. How's it going?

Will Rose: 00:02:45

Good. I think Justin probably could. Could be. We could be in competition with that. We should have the most rounded contest.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:53

Measure the diameter.

Will Rose: 00:02:55

That's right. Rounded.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:57

Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of stuff that we're geeking out on, I've. Of course it's that time of always.

Literally always for me to play Kingdom Hearts all the way through again. And man, see this time it's special because I played earlier in the year. I got to play the original Game Boy version of Chain of Memories.

So I got my Steam deck and I was like, oh, this is great. I've been having to play the renewed remastered version for so long and I played it on its own and it was great.

And now I'm doing a playthrough of all the games and I'm Just using that instead of the remastered version. When I play through, I'm doing the new version of everything else. Gotta go retro for that chain of memories again.

And, man, it's just something special about the game Boy advance version of that game. I'm loving it, man.

Will Rose: 00:03:42

Well, for the record, I am drinking every time he says Kingdom Hearts, but it's water, so I'm not going to be tipsy by the end of this episode. I'm going to be very, very hydrated. I'm going be so hydrated.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:54

Yeah. What about you, Will? What? What are you geeking out on if you can't say Superman?

Will Rose: 00:03:59

I'm geeking out on hard. I am. That movie is great. I've seen it twice. And because of that, I'm deep diving in some of the comics, some of the lore.

I'm reading a book that Kevin Schaefer recommended, the Unauthorized Biography of Superman by NPR Guy. I don't have his name handy with me, but the book's right over there. I'm not going to go get it.

I'm learning a lot by reading this book and I'm all in. This is fun.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:23

Yeah. Yeah.

For everyone who's complained about us bantering too long in the intros, it makes me think of like, how, like, I don't know, I want to see Superman really bad, but there's different things that our Fiendoms can help us do sometimes. For me right now, Superman's kind of stressing me out because I'm like, I really want to watch it.

There's just too much going on in life for me to be able to see it. And avoiding spoilers seems like it's just not gonna happen for me at this point. And it's like, man, that stresses me out.

And then I also have a Kingdom Heart chain of memories where it's like, that's a fandom where life is crazy. And that's something I know I can return to for comfort and de stress. And yeah, fandom's a two edged sword.

Will Rose: 00:05:00

Sometimes I might be like that way with Fantastic Four. I got a lot to do at the end of this week when it's coming out and I don't know when I'm gonna be able to see it.

Hopefully by the end of the weekend, I might get spoiled beforehand. I'm kind of stressing out when I'm gonna see that movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:11

So. Yeah. And if you, if you love this or if you don't love this, either way, you can review our show. Podchaser. Good pods. Apple Spot.

Apple Podcast, Spotify, whatever. Rate, review, comment. Be like, man, these guys need to cut this intro down. And we'll be like, wow, you're the one millionth person to Dallas.

And we're still not doing it. So that's what it is.

Will Rose: 00:05:31

Because we like each other and like.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:32

We just have fun. If you want us to hear you a little bit more, we might care slightly more if you are one of the paid supporters of our show. Maybe.

I'm not sure if we would care more, but we might so consider being like the one and only Russell Gentry. And you can sponsor our show on Apple Podcasts, Captivate or Patreon.

And you can get your own shout out just like Russell for $3 a month and a chance for us to care slightly more about your complaints. Maybe. Probably not, though.

If you want to hear other episodes in the Finding the Good series, like this one, then down below description, there's a link. The other ones are slightly different than what we're going to be doing today, but they're a lot of fun. And I think polarization was a.

Was a good theme to pick this year. It seems like. Seems like it's relevant. Oh, all right, so let's jump into this, Will. Okay. This episode we said we're doing differently.

We're not gonna do the pick sides thing. You know, we've done before doors and elves. You've done magic and science with Andy. I did Pokemon, like space and time. That was fun.

At the beginning of the year, we did a lot of kind of cool, crazy stuff. So instead of what we're going to do, we're dividing this topic into four different main tropes that we see in Disney and Pixar animation.

We got four different parental kind of tropes. Well, really three tropes. And then a catch all at the end is what we'll do.

So we got the step parents, we got the dead parents, and we got the overbearing parents. And then we'll do that catch all at the end.

So starting with the step parents, Will, I think this is why you initially suggested this kind of fitting with the polarization theme. What's. What's the step parent trope? What is this? What do we see in Disney with step parents?

Will Rose: 00:07:12

Well, I feel like there's a little, little prelude here when we talk about, like this series of verses, one against the other. Pitt and one against other and finding the good in the other.

Part of that exercise is so that we can do our best to try to create these habits of trying to find the Good and the. In the other. And even if we don't like that fandom, what. What is it?

Why do we that our friend or co host or somewhat mild enemy likes this other thing that I don't, I don't like. And so that's a good extra to have. So when you think of Disney, you think of parents versus their children or these children.

Most of the time you're right.

In these Disney films, live action, mostly animated, it is the kid that's set up as the character, the protagonist that they want the children to identify with, to look up to, to maybe see themselves in the story and see themselves as a hero. And I feel like as you go through the. Correct me if I'm wrong, you're the historian here.

I feel like early Disney, Early Disney had they really pulled from like Grim's fairy tales, right? They really pulled from like what's in the, you know, common. What is it? The ips that are like common ground for anybody to have.

What's that called like for you? Common domain.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:24

Yeah. Public domain, what you're thinking of.

Will Rose: 00:08:26

Public domain.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:26

Right.

Will Rose: 00:08:27

So they're pulling for their stories, making stories.

And most of the time in those fairy tales and Grimm's morality tales or whatever, you have the evil stead parent with the kid that either emerges as discovering themselves or who they are and you know, they're seen as a nobody, but eventually, you know, deep down inside, they're a princess or a king and you know, you can find the king and princess within you. So I think we're talking about step parents.

I feel like Disney, over the years, the decades have seen that that trope maybe isn't healthy and they try to look at. Yeah, there's still orphans, there are still kids that are adopted, they're still people. And kids that come from broken families have step parents.

How can they work together and, and be emotionally stable and supportive one another? So we're talking early Disney, late Disney. I think, I think it's important to kind of distinguish between.

But the trope is like, you have this step parent who doesn't care about this kid because it's not their real kid, it's not their blood family. So therefore they're being abused or isolated or, or maybe the step parent is jealous towards this kid and so they have to battle.

And regardless of how they're being treated, they gotta rise above it and become the person that they are called to be in the world with their, their true selves. Does that make, make sense to you, that trope of self discovery in the midst of hardship of.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:47

Yeah, I, this is like, like talking to you about Star wars where you always want to do like. Well, actually, I feel like, I feel like that right now. Okay, so I don't think most grim brother stories have a step parent.

I think most that Disney pull from probably do because Disney likes that Disney likes dealing with parents for some reason, positively or negatively. I think all of these tropes are actually kind of well spread out. Even the Grimm use.

I think the ones we tend to remember are like Snow White, Disney's first movie, Cinderella, which isn't really one of the first movies. That's silver era of Disney. So that's after the first batch or two batches of films that they do.

Even some like, I want to say that at least one of the. Yeah, Sleeping Beauty, I think that's Silver Arab also. So we got, we've got a lot of the silver era kind of used as Grim Rapunzel.

That's more modern Disney and it uses Grimm brothers. Not really a step parent, but still a bad parent. In fact, I will say probably if I had to pick the worst of the parents kind of have to build.

Grooming's like grapple, right?

Will Rose: 00:10:51

Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:53

Gothel Goth. That's right. She's awful.

Will Rose: 00:10:57

Yeah, she's awful. Yeah. So you have the step parents, you know, from, from the earlier that they're just awful and mean. You're like, oh, wow, that, what a nightmare.

But then you get to like Big Hero 6. You have.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:12

Oh, I didn't think about Big Hero 6 is good. That's a good pull.

Will Rose: 00:11:15

So, so here is like a family, but kind of a step parent aunt who's taking care of kids whose parents have passed away. And so you start to get a little better of supportive. You, I know you're going through a hard time.

How can we support you in this trauma or tragedy or hard time that, that you're going through? And then would you consider like Zeus and Hera? Like with Hercules, you know, doesn't he have like.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:39

And then he has adopted parents and real parents. Yeah, I, I, I want to say though, like, okay, so step parents do Lilo and Stitch.

If you're going to include aunts and like found family kind of stuff. Like, holy crap, man. Like, you have this sister show up who just fully takes on her younger sister.

I personally think the live action did that particular relationship better. And that's probably the only thing it does better. But the animated film man, like, you have her where she's like, I'm gonna Run a full time job.

I'll take care of my kid sister. I'm also going to take care of these aliens because why not? You know, like, she's a boss. She's great.

Thinking earlier on than that with step parents is hard, you know. You, Cinderella, the evil stepmom. You have Snow White with the evil stepmom. One from the golden era, though.

One of the earliest films if we're gonna include, like Found Family kind of stuff. Pinocchio, man, Geppado. Like, that guy's great. He's awesome. He's a great dad.

A little bit overbearing, so we probably could fit him in this or the overbearing father, kind of. He could be fit in either category.

Will Rose: 00:12:41

Maybe he's a stepparent. Then you could.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:44

I don't really know. I don't know how that works because he's not like, biologically his son. We'll keep. We'll put them in that. We'll put them in that category. Okay. Okay.

Trying to think through. Yeah.

I think Little and Stitch is the earliest one that I remember that I'm like, I like that stepparent or that like found family or, you know, something. Well, you mentioned Hercules, if you want to count his adopted family. They're great.

Will Rose: 00:13:05

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:06

I feel like Hunchback of Notre Dame. Quasimodo kind of gets adopted by the church. The church is awesome in that film, which is weird. It was also that guy, I guess because you got Frollo.

But the actual priest of the cathedral that takes in Quasimodo. That guy's cool.

Will Rose: 00:13:25

Yeah. Pattern of authority figures and those just below authority figures. They're trying to do good to battle against the authority figures.

Institution that there. There's a trip.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:34

Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Are there any earlier ones that aren't awful? I don't. I really don't think there are. I think they're all bad at like the. Yeah.

Even like. Man. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think you're onto something here.

I think it's probably around the Renaissance era of Disney when they were like, maybe sometimes step parents can. Can be. Not you, perhaps.

Will Rose: 00:13:57

Let's not. Let's not be so hard on that.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:59

I'll do a shout out here. Have you ever watched Once upon a time? ABC's Once Upon a Time? Yes. They kind of redo some of those step parents. You know, the Evil Queen.

They kind of give her a little bit of redemption arc in that. You know, so she was that evil step parent still. Who's still kind of like, jealous. You Know, whatever.

They kind of redeemed some of the characters in that show. It is a very wild show.

Not for the faint of heart, not for those who hold these stories sacred, but if you're able to play with them a little free, it's great.

Will Rose: 00:14:27

What year? My kids love those. And as a family. It was abc. It was abc.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:32

Disney. Yeah, I think mostly.

Will Rose: 00:14:35

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:36

It kind of lost the. The ball a little bit as it went on, but. All right, so what do you think? Like, who are some of the main offenders that you would.

You would like to identify and who would you say? Maybe some of the. We mentioned some of the better ones already. Who are the main offenders?

We talked about the evil Queen, Cinderella's mom, and the others that you're like, this is when that trope's not done very well.

Will Rose: 00:14:56

It's definitely the Cinderella's mom or stepmom, right? Because she's got a real daughters who are really jealous and they're like, really?

They bully her so bad and then she eventually becomes the chosen one or the one that the prince is. They are. They are just so bratty, spoiled bully. And the mom condones all that for. For the like or stepmom or whatever. It's. It's pretty bad.

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:24

Awful. Absolutely awful, man. We were going to shout out the best for each. I think I already did, though. Like, I think for me, Naughty man, like, holy crap.

And, you know, I'll shout.

Even though it's about the animated, that live action version where she, like, ends up discovering that she can get help and still go to school and have a life of her own and still is going to care for her sister. Like, it's just done so well.

And what I really appreciate about that movie is it shows, like, hey, sometimes the stuff gets messy, but that doesn't mean that the people are evil. The stepparent isn't evil. The child services people aren't evil. I like a little bit of nuance in some of this. I think that.

Will Rose: 00:16:00

Yeah, yeah, I'll pick Aunt Cass from Big Hero 6. Like, I think, you know, trying to take care of family and help kids out. Like, I like that.

Supportive, but also acknowledging what the kids are going through and trying to find their creative outlet and who they're going to become.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:17

All right, I dig it. I dig it. All right, let's move on to that. That next trope. Dead parents. So maybe one. Maybe both our parents are out of the picture.

Will, do you want to kind of summarize what the trope is you want me to do it? How you feeling?

Will Rose: 00:18:13

You chime in on the trip on this one and then I'll add it because I'll probably think to some extent.

Joshua Noel: 00:18:19

There are a lot of rumors that has to do with Walt's relationship with his own mother. You see a lot of moms dying, but you also see dads dying occasional. But this is a thing throughout all of Disney.

Finding Nemo Bambi, one of the first films you got Bambi. Dumbo gets separated from his mom. I don't think she dies. I'm not sure though. Simba loses Mufasa.

Yeah, you have a lot of these, like the one parent or both parents die and it's like, how do we continue? Coco has some of that. A little bit Frozen. Frozen definitely has it. Tarzan. I'm trying to think that there's. I'll think of it later.

There's oh, princess on the frog. That's the other one I was thinking of. The dad dies, but the mom's still around. So.

And his death does play a meaningful part of the story still in which.

Will Rose: 00:19:05

You can count also orphans in this like, you know, I think of the rescuers. You have Penny, you know, who's abandoned and kidnapped from the evil villains who got the precursor to Goonies, I guess.

And then you have the sword in the stone. The parents are out of the picture. Just somebody who's there.

So that trope of like a young kid without their parents still having to grow up way too fast with way responsibilities to understand who they are without their family around to really shape or help them grow into the person.

Whether they're unrealistic expectations or just love and nurture to help them get to where they could be growing up way too fast or taking on way too many responsibilities before they're able to as young.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:45

I think Bambi is probably the one that most people remember. Bambi's mom. Everybody remembers Bambi's mom. I think most people like my generation probably immediately think of Nemo.

But those two I think are the most memorable. But happens a lot, a whole lot. What do you think is the worst offender? Where you're like ah man, this is not how I wish they would have handled that.

Will Rose: 00:20:05

Oh man, I. I don't know.

I mean I think as I think if we're gonna include Penny in the rescuers, the worst offender is that she a six year old orphan who's like kidnapped by to try to like do use her as a tool to get like a diamond or whatever. You know, chasing, chasing that Money and riches, this poor kid. And then these mice and animals and. And help.

Let's go the rescue society or whatever they're called. Let's go find Penny. Like I that that kidnapper is not a parent. But it's definitely a kid that's alone that doesn't have any parents.

That's defend for themselves. That's what comes to mind. I know it's a really old pool.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:46

But that's gonna be a little controversial. I love the film. I still love the message of the film. But man, I don't like Mufasa dying. It's not that I don't like him dying.

I don't like how it's handled. And mind you, they're just straight up pulling from Shakespeare. So I guess I'm really complaining about Shakespeare.

But like, you know, it shows this picture of like where Simba runs away and grows up by himself because his uncle made him feel guilty about it. Plays all this. The story. It's great story. But like when I think about it, I'm like, man, I don't like, hey, evil uncle.

This is child raised up by himself. And hakuna matata. Man, this was so much fun with Timon and Pumbaa. And like, yeah, he learns to be an adult later on. But I'm like, man, I don't know.

I just kind of wish it was done differently. I like it for the story's purpose, but as far as like the message it tells. Oh my God, not my favorite. Not my favorite.

Will Rose: 00:21:34

Okay, there you go. Send your angry emails to Joshua is perfect.

Joshua Noel: 00:21:38

I wouldn't actually change anything about Lion King. But if I'm going to say the worst part late like parent wise, like how it was handled. You know what I mean? He didn't sure.

Having to not have a parent. And like it's fine. And I can like, maybe we could add something or like.

Will Rose: 00:21:53

Yeah, just understand of like escapism and I'm going to like have no worries. And how that is just unreal. Nihilistic.

There's other people connected to is kind of like nihilistic hedonistic understanding of I'm just gonna live for myself.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:08

Like a remaster and just like show that actually Mufasa was watching over him the whole time. Or maybe Rafiki was kind of stepping in here and there and helping them out. You know, maybe something. I don't know. I'm just being nitpicky.

It's hard to really be like, man, that parent's death was bad because like usually it's done In a way that's meaningful to the story. Like, even Nemo. Like, the whole thing is, like, dealing with, like, hey, this, this loss. Like, you don't just lose the person that died.

You lose a part of who the dad is. You lose a part of who the kid could have been. Like, oh. Like, you know, like, there's not a good way to do that story because that story sucks.

But it's a story we need.

Will Rose: 00:22:44

You know, if only Qui Gon was around to train Anakin, it'd be a whole different story.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:48

So true.

Will Rose: 00:22:50

So if you had to pick, we're talking Star Wars. We're gonna do Disney. There's Star Wars. We can talk about bad parents in Disney. Have you had to pick?

Joshua Noel: 00:22:59

What about. What's the best dead Disney parent? What a weird question.

Will Rose: 00:23:06

That is.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:07

It was best dead parent.

Will Rose: 00:23:08

Well, we got, we got Frozen, but, you know, well, you can make it. They isolated their kid and they're gone. And these sisters have to pull together and understand how to be sisters together.

Like, the way they pulled off that storytelling of parents that are no longer there, but what they really search for at the end. I, I, that's the story that really such. Those are so good movies. I love Frozen. How they rebound.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:33

Yeah, that's good. I do like Frozen. I, you know, I still kind of wish there was somebody there helping parentally. Yeah. But okay, here's mine.

I'm kind of cheating because she still has a parent left, but Princess and the Frog, Tiana's whole story, like, especially because she grows up wanting to achieve her dad's dream because her dad passed away. And it wasn't until later on in the movie that she kind of realizes, wait a minute.

The reason my dad didn't achieve the dream isn't because he couldn't have. It's because there's things that are more valuable. So she's still learning from her dad who had passed away.

And I'm just like, yeah, I like how that was done. Just because someone is no longer physically here doesn't mean you're not still learning.

I still, regularly, I think of my one grandfather, and he had this thing he'd say where he's like, I love you and ain't nothing you could do about it.

And still, like, all the time, where I'm, like, talking to somebody about, you know, religion or God or whatever, and they're like, oh, is God coercive? Does God control. It's God.

Will Rose: 00:24:24

Whatever.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:24

And I'm like, listen, all I know is that a grandpa, he believed in that kind of God that you guys are talking about saying is bad. And, you know, maybe I don't believe in the same God that he would have articulated if I had to give. Make him take a theology quiz.

But at the end of the day, he's one of the few people that I knew who could honestly say, I love you, and ain't nothing you could do about it. And I think at the end, we could get our theology wrong if we end up there. Cool. And I'm still learning from him, so I feel like I like that.

If we're gonna have a dead parent, let's show that they're still there in some way. And they do that with Mufasa, too, I guess, just in a more literal way.

And I don't know, I kind of like it where it's more like she remembers thing and is still learning from his legacy, you know?

Will Rose: 00:25:01

Yeah.

Well, and if you can mention Kingdom Hearts, and I can mention that maybe one of the worst parents is Anakin Skywalker because Darth Vader killed him. But then, you know, you have Bail Organa taking care of Leia. You know, she has a dead parent where her mom, they're all gone, and she's still raised.

And there's the. The Force guiding her destiny. Same with Luke and his uncle.

Joshua Noel: 00:25:22

If I'm going to include Kingdom Heart, I might say it's the worst dead parent. But, I mean, you know, we don't find out for sure that Sora's parents die. He just runs away. We never see his parents.

They acknowledge that they exist at some point. What happens to him? I don't know. I know at one point, the world he's come. He came from is completely immersed in the realm of darkness.

So probably not good.

Will Rose: 00:25:42

See what can of worms I opened up, folks? You see what I did?

Joshua Noel: 00:25:45

Anyway. All right, let's move on the next one then. Overbearing par. Yeah, you want to go through the trope?

What is the trope of the overbearing mom or dad in Disney? It's.

Will Rose: 00:25:57

It's the.

It's the helicopter parent, the overbearing parent that really wants to protect their child so they don't get in any trouble or any danger happening either.

Because they know that they are special and they don't want the world to know they're special because then they'll come down on or have the extra pressures or they're really scared they're going to get hurt, or they themselves have experienced trauma and they don't want that trauma to be on their their child. So they're really trying to save them from the world. Wrap them in bubble rap so they don't get hurt at all.

But what you're really doing is not letting them live life and experience life to the fullest, that they can learn for themselves how to live in the world on their own.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:33

Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

I. I think to me, the go to example, I don't know if this is the worst one, but King Trident with the Little Mermaid, you know, doesn't want her to see land, doesn't want to interact with people at all. And he's just warning about the danger. I've heard speculation that it has to Danger. The who his wife was their mom was.

But they don't say that in film. It's just straight up. No. You know, which, I mean, thinking of it, Nemo probably can fit this too. You know, Merlin was like, hey, don't do anything.

I don't even want you to go to school.

Will Rose: 00:27:00

Yeah, that's part of the thing too, is like, what's frustrating about some of this trope is that if you would sit your child down and just have a conversation of why you act, have these choices and really be honest with, like, we lost your mom or I'm really scared at this point. I think your kid would resonate with those feelings and it could help you through it and you could work through that.

So I think you're like three or four conversations that can happen that could help this, but instead they're like, nope, this is the rules and that's it. And you're like, no communicate with your child. You know, half of my parenting is communicating and explaining why I feel the way I do.

The choices that I have for our family and us, and why you can or can't do something is because there's something behind it. And if you just explain a little bit what's behind it and the reasons, it seems like you would go a far away.

So that's the frustrating part of watching these movies. Like, just explain yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:50

A lot of what you deal with with Riku and Kingdom Hearts at the end of the first game just wouldn't happen if he. If, you know, Geppetto was less overbearing with Pinocchio. Just saying I ran out of water.

But I. I do think Geppetto is probably a really good example. And it's one of those where, like, I point to it, I'm like, I. I get it. That's the thing.

I think that's the most annoying thing with the overbearing parent for me is like, a lot of the times I'm like, I don't like it, but I get it. You know what I mean? Like, honestly, humans suck. Yeah. King Triton does have a point. Geppetto is like, hey, I have a kid.

Through an entire miracle, there is absolutely no reason this puppet should be alive. If you see some of the other stories and stuff around it, it's like, he doesn't have a wife. He doesn't have any potential for children.

He had this dream, he thought it was completely lost, and now he has a son. He's like, no, I'm not letting anything happen to you. It.

Will Rose: 00:28:40

No, I don't want anything to happen. Yeah, same way with. With Marlin, too. Is like, there's real dangerous. The ocean is dangerous. You got Bruce, you got jellyfish, you have currents.

You have all kinds of things that you're like, wow, I. It's a scary scare there. Barracudas. That's what. That's what took your mom out. Like, I. What are we gonna do here?

And so there are real dangers, but if you address them, walk through them, process them together, I think. I think that makes her. Makes her world of difference.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:10

Yeah. Well, I mean, even what happens in Brave with Merida probably doesn't happen if his dad's a little less overbearing.

Her mom probably doesn't get cursed, turn into a bear. And you don't have a movie that should have just been titled Mother Bear as a sequel to Brother Bear, because that would have been more fun for me.

Will Rose: 00:29:28

Well, there you go. There's my vote for most top Mother Bear. You're so overbearing that your mom gets turned into a bear.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:35

That's bad. That might be the worst one, actually.

Will Rose: 00:29:40

That question right there's my pick.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:42

Also, I think Zeus lightly, gently touches this trope, you know, because you do have that where, like, you have to earn divinity before you're allowed into. Into Olympus. It's less, I think, directly Zeus's fault and more of, like, hey, that's just how physics work in this movie for some reason.

But, you know, which. Maybe Zeus is just a good example of how this is done. Well, like, he wants the best for his son. He wants all this.

And then when his son makes a different decision, he respects that decision. Zeus does it pretty well. Might be because Hercules is the best Disney film. Maybe. Who knows? I couldn't say.

Will Rose: 00:30:17

Well, if we're going to ask that question of what was done. Well, I'm thinking of Marlon. I mean, you just really feel for him because he's a deep grief of he's the only fish egg that made, and mom is gone.

And it's really scary. It's terrifying. That barracuda is terrifying. And then you have the class. It's very cute. I mean, I love Nemo. Finding Nemo so much.

It's such a great movie, and I was smitten with it. I love. I love the ocean. Yeah. It's no secret. I love the ocean. I love aquariums. I just. I love it. But I. I think you really feel for him, and.

And he wants to protect him, and he sees, like, you know, what he needs or that. But then he's lost, and he goes on a hunt and experience as he experienced the ocean himself and the dangers.

He then says, this is how I can be a better parent and help you along the way.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:06

He.

Will Rose: 00:31:07

He has a redemption arc. He learns along the way and can pass that on.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:11

I feel bad because I'm not choosing any of, like, the old, old Disney films for this. I just don't. I feel like I don't like the old Disney parents that much. I like the stories a lot. I love Pinocchio is, like, one of my stories.

You know, Dumbo. I love these. I'm just like. I don't know. The parents don't stand out to me as much.

Encanto, though, if I'm gonna go overbearing parent and grandparent, overbearing family, really, because it's more of a family dynamic. I think that'll probably be my top pick for, like, when it's done the best. Because you do see where, like, it is generational trauma.

Like, it's not just a point face. Like, her parents aren't just being overbearing. They have a responsibility.

Their family means something different to them in that context and in that culture. You see what happened to Bruno, and it's like, there's a lot of nuance, a lot of complications here.

And when they address it, it's not just, okay, well, now we made up, and I'm gonna let you be who you are. It's more of a. Actually, no, it's a lot more complicated than that, because family is complicated. But we do all have a place. You are important.

We're all important. And there's a way that we can maintain our family and what we think is important without having such a tight hold on it that maybe we lose all.

Everything. Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:32:21

And if you think about, like, the progress and evolution of Disney, you think about, like, what they did at the beginning of just pulling these fairy tales and evil stepmother, stepfather, whatever.

And then you get to in contact and you have like, yeah, they really know the psychology around and the science around, like generational trauma and trying to help people and kids think through, yes, entertainment, it's animation, but also these stories we tell with each other is to help us process our own trauma, generational trauma. And hopefully that can help make the world a better place. So you see the progression of what Disney have done over the decades.

How they in terms have they grown and I. How they've grown and maybe some resources and consulting that they've used to help them tell better stories. There's not just stereotypes.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:06

I'm not convinced I would say better stories, but I get what you're saying.

I think in a lot of cases they sacrifice story for message personally, because I think some of those stories early on, like Pinocchio was great and part of why it's great is because of how poorly some people make decisions in that film, you know, and sometimes that's realistic too. Special Shout out. And maybe I should have said this for my top pick instead. Searcher Clade, also for overbearing parent. Great film. Strange World.

I'm not sure. I feel like a lot of people missed this one and I'm sad about it.

Yeah, a lot of people miss Change World specifically because a lot of people were angry about it because, you know, Ethan Clay turns out to be gay, which it's a gay woke movie. Ooh, that's evil. And kids shouldn't watch it. But man, I watched that film. It's way better than the advertisements give it.

And I think it's because Disney was also afraid of being, you know, facing the anti woke mob.

But man, you have this overbearing dad, Searcher who doesn't want his son to do something and it turns out it's because his dad, a Jaeger Clade, did that very thing where he was going out on an adventure to see what's out there and got lost and died. And so Searcher tries to prevent his son Ethan from going out there.

And actually the father and Searcher and Ethan end up reconciling and they discover their whole strange world. Huge spoiler warning isn't actually a world. And if they didn't do any of this and his son didn't go adventure, they just simply all would have died.

The whole community.

So really showing that and then juxtaposing it with the experience of someone who is attracted to the same sex even though they don't make a Huge deal about it in the movie. For those of us who live in our real world, you can see that and go, oh, yeah, that's.

A lot of parents, especially in religious communities, are doing this right now, and maybe if we let go a little bit, we could save our planet, perhaps. That'd be cool.

Will Rose: 00:34:57

I like that message. That's a good one. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:00

Yeah. All right. What are other positive? Because, you know, sometimes they're just good parents.

Sometimes we're just like, yeah, I actually just freaking love these bears.

Will Rose: 00:35:10

And Inside Out. Weren't they supportive and trying to work through with. With their. Their.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:14

Yeah, that was when I was gonna shout out to Inside Out. Those parents are great.

Will Rose: 00:35:17

Yeah. They're. They're really trying to understand and help their child work through their. Their emotions and the expectations put upon them. So I think.

And the change that we all go through in our emotions and how we grow and to become the people that. That we are. Yeah, those. Those parents do a good job. Doing the best they can.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:34

Yeah. I should have mentioned Raya's dad when I talk about, like, dead parents earlier because that's also. That was a good story. That was a good film.

But, man, thinking of other just, like, positive parents throughout Disney, man. It's funny because I just don't usually spend as much attention to the parents. Pinoch Pocahontas dad. I think he was good.

Will Rose: 00:35:54

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:54

Yep.

Will Rose: 00:35:55

You got Bob and Helen from the Incredibles doing the best they can. They go through life crisis. They're trying to bring their team in.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:00

Incredibles are great.

Will Rose: 00:36:01

Go. You got a family. Parents. It shows what happens when kind of midlife hits and.

And you get in a rut and you're like, am I doing living the same day over again? I want adventure. And then. Then what?

Then the tension and the tragedy within the movie forces them to think through what really matters to them in the long run and what they really, truly care about. And they pull together, together as a superhero team and work together and learn how to use their gifts together as. As a family.

And that's the ultimate goal. That's the ultimate goal. You're. You're different people, different personalities, different gifts. But then how do you work together as a team? That.

There you go.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:38

Yeah. Pongo and Perdita, the. The Dalmatians parents, they were great. They went to literally hell and back together. Had to get their kids back.

Like, I love them. There's so many people. If we're gonna count lady and the Tramp too, then both lady and Tramp are actually pretty Cool parents. I like them.

There's a lot to pull from Brother Bear. You see some kind of parental stuff that I love. If I were to pick my. My all time parental commentary of Disney Top pick. Tj.

This is for you because we love you. Treasure Planet does it. Best man. Treasure Planet does this particular thing as the mom.

She does a little bit of the overbearing, but she acknowledges her own weakness early on and lets go the try to force a father figure on him because he had a dead dad. There we go. Dead parent. We already got this. Try to force this father figure on him because they're in a relationship.

So you kind of have like that step parent thing and it's done really well except for he just doesn't connect with him. Then he does connect with this other person, John Silver. And it turns out that that guy isn't the best but isn't just strictly bad.

Because none of us are only sinners. We're all saint and sinner at the same time.

Will Rose: 00:37:47

Look at you.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:48

And there we go. Right?

You see this really should be developed with John Silver and he learns like how to be his own man from this guy and also realizes he can't just trust everyone and then comes back in.

Is actually goes from rebellious teen to kid who understands that there's nuance in everybody and does a little bit better with his mom and his potential stepdad. Even though I think he mostly just wants to be pirate and be like John Silver.

Like there's just so many nuance, so many different characters here that all play a part and it plays into all of those big tropes that I think we talked about and it's just done really well.

Will Rose: 00:38:21

Nice.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:22

DJs got a point with this one.

Will Rose: 00:38:24

Good job, TJ. We're proud of you.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:25

Yeah. What about you? If you would have been like. Like an all time best parental situation in Disney. Where are we going?

Will Rose: 00:38:33

I. Okay, we're gonna. How about Toy Story? How about Andy's mom? Let's. You know.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:38

Like I know next to nothing about.

Will Rose: 00:38:40

Yeah, I don't either. You don't either. Everything's off screen. But she lets her kid play with cool toys and that's true.

Helps through the transitions of from Adolet from being a kid to adolescence to high school and college and you know, all those things these toys. But like, you know, Annie's mom is. Is never portrayed as. As somebody who's like negative. But I like. I do like. And find an email.

I'll call back as I would talk about this like Marlin's learning curve.

Marlin's learning curve on how to be a parent and the adventures along the way shapes him into having some empathy towards those who he shares an ocean with and taking care of his kid. I think the, the transition and, and the redemption arc, the. The learning curve where you arrive at the end, I think is, is pretty special.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:26

Okay, I, I thought of one more and I'm. I'm gonna stop after this. And actually, man, this might. I'm gonna put this as a tie with Treasure Planet, I think because I forgot about this guy.

Massimo Marcovaldo from the film Luca. It's a Pixar film that was straight to Disney plus during like the, the COVID years. Holy crap, dude.

So first off, you have a lot of the Little Mermaid situation but backwards, which is fine.

You have a little bit of like, maybe this is same sex relationship stuff without it being blatant so they don't have to deal with the woke mob as much. The anti woke mobile as much. But like you see, like he's a sea monster and that makes him different.

And he's trying to hide because he really wants to live here. And he's afraid to go back to where he came from because his home life under the sea wasn't great. And he's in hiding and he's with this guy.

And here we have Massimo doesn't know the situation. You know what? He doesn't really ask a lot of questions. This kid wants help. Cool. You're my son now. You came to me, now you're my child.

Everyone freaks out because he's a sea monster. And all the whole town's freaking out and he says, stop freaking out. That's my son. It's just like, man, this guy, he's a man of very few words.

He gives a hug at the right moment, but he's like very much like this macho, like, oh, kind of guy. A few words, big muscular type. And like, you just don't expect him to be who he is. And he's like, I'm just gonna love you.

I don't need to say a lot of words to love you. I don't need to do a whole lot, but I'm gonna be there. And if the whole town freaks out because you're a sea monster, guess what?

I'm still gonna love you. That's just a good dad, man.

And I think maybe, maybe a little betrayal with the he father could be like, perhaps maybe he doesn't care if you're a sea monster or what you're into. He's just like, yeah, man, I'm just gonna love you.

Will Rose: 00:41:05

Okay.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:05

And there ain't nothing you can do about it. Wow, look at that call back. Yeah. Of course, you also got a, like, Coco, but that's like a granddad, so, like, that doesn't count.

Will Rose: 00:41:15

That's the name of free film. We love you, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's the name of this episode.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:19

It should be. It should be. Listen, AI, when I have you titled.

Will Rose: 00:41:25

Enough, maybe.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:26

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I'm sure I'm gonna kick myself for not mentioning one later on.

Will Rose: 00:41:32

Yeah, yeah. And so, folks, if you're listening to this and you're like, why didn't you say this? Why didn't you say that?

That's why you can chime in on the social medias.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:38

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:41:39

You can message us. You, like, chime in and let us know.

We can't possibly, over the course of 50 minutes, name and get into every single person's favorite Disney trove or with parents versus children. I'm sure we're forgetting something. Megan, if you're listening, chime in in the comments and let us know what.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:56

All right, guys, full transparency. You're gonna have to go to YouTube. Will and I realized we did forget maybe the best Disney parent.

And of course, there's other stuff on YouTube that's totally worth it. Drop in the comments. We still want to hear what you guys think we missed and what we should have covered.

There's way too many disparities that we could have. We could never cover them all in an episode. But thank you guys again, and let's get back to the episode.

What's killing me is I feel like we named a lot from, like, gold era, silver era, Renaissance revival, post Renaissance even, because we did Treasure Island. But I like, man, we really left out that bronze and the. The package film era.

And I'm like, man, all right, Will, before we finish, I need to know, what kind of parent do you think you are most like? Like, which one of these parents throughout all of Disney's catalog are you? Like, man, I'm probably more like. Even if it's.

You're like, man, I wish I didn't have to say this, but I'm more like King Triton. Or if you're like, you know what? Straight up, I'm that dad. And Luca, like, what. Where do you put yourself?

Will Rose: 00:42:49

I'm Mufasa, and I hope I don't get run over by. By. By. No, no, no. This Is hard.

I. I am for, like, I feel like seeing I, you know, knowing hands you a manual, like, the perfect way to parent your kids. But I think we. We've done a decent job. Our kids have shared. We've done a decent job. We haven't been perfect. We made mistakes.

We've learned as we've gone. But. But I feel like our instincts and. And how much we love our kids and family and the faith community around us. We've been pretty good. Pretty good.

Pretty good parents. And. But right now in my life, I think of Mr.

Incredible Bob, who is having a hard time fitting in his uniform because I'm in my 50s, you know, I got a little extra weight on me. I. Not as quick to my feet on the surfboard as I used to be, but I still got it. I still have a spark there, there.

I want to be, make a difference in the world. And my energy level is enough that I feel like I can do these things.

And I want to take care of my kids and help them discover their gifts and so they can be their own hero out in the world. So I'm not second guessing my career or my marriage, but I will say, like, where I am in life, like, midlife right now, I identify with Bob, Mr.

Incredible. And I still want to have that spark, to be a hero.

Joshua Noel: 00:43:58

That was good.

Will Rose: 00:43:58

That's good. Yeah, I like it.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:01

I'm not a parent. If I were, I think I'd be a lot like Geppetto. Like, I really do. For better or worse, you know, like, he's.

He's overbearing, but he's not super overbearing. He's just like, hey, I think it's crazy that I have a kid, like, that's just wild. So I want to protect you.

And maybe sometimes I forget to tell you that that's why I'm doing these things. And his kids wrestling with, like, am I a real boy or am I not? And Geppetto's always the be like, no, you're. You're my son.

Even if he doesn't always say it the right way. So, like, I'm thinking, hey, maybe I'd be like that.

I might not always say it the right way, but I'd like to say, think that I'd be that dad who want to protect my kid and is like, you know what? I love you. I do.

Will Rose: 00:44:39

And there's nothing.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:40

Of course you're valued and there's nothing. Yeah, I love you. And there's nothing you can do about it. I. I will always Say that because me, I don't know.

As long as that phrase is alive, my paw paw's alive in my mind.

Will Rose: 00:44:50

There you go. You know, and you're. You're crazy. Is your dog parent like you? There, you parent.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:55

That's true.

Will Rose: 00:44:55

Humans are different than dogs. But you're taking care of this. Being sentient being, probably. And they. You know, how you. How you treat your dog, you know, and say, I love you.

Nothing about it. Even when you bark during podcasts, that's.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:09

What you can do about it. Yeah, well, you know what's funny, too, is that line, according to my papa, wasn't his line. That came from his dad.

And he said, you know, my dad always said. And then he. And I'm like, papa, you've always said that. I've never met your dad, but you've said that since I was a kid.

So to me, you've always said that. Didn't to him. It was his dad who always said that.

And, you know, there's probably someone out there who's like, yeah, Josh used to be my youth leader. For some reason, he always said this thing.

Will Rose: 00:45:36

Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:37

And, you know, I like it. As long as that's out in the world. I think our world's a little bit of a better place. I like to think.

Will Rose: 00:45:43

And seeing I have our phrases and things are important that we repeat and our kids definitely joke about, like, they play Cindy. Bingo. Will. Bingo.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:52

What's Will's catchphrase? What's Will's catchphrase?

Will Rose: 00:45:54

You know, there's. There's entanglement. There is. Hey, have you heard this thing about Star wars or superheroes or. Oh, surfing. But.

But then also, you know, how they see themselves as special and how to take care of one another. I think is. Is a big part of how. We're parents.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:10

Yeah. I had a. I had a co worker do it. Do a. I forget. I did something. He said something. And then I started, like, mocking.

I was like, oh, I'm Tyler, and I'm. Huh? And then I. I was like, hey, if you were to do that to me, how. How do I sound? And he was like, oh, I'm Josh. The store is on fire.

Six people called out, and only five were scheduled. But it's gonna be a great day, guys.

Will Rose: 00:46:31

I'm keeping it positive.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:32

I'm like, yeah, okay, that's. That's fair. Hey, listen, if that's the mock version of me, I like the mock me. All right, guys, well, let's. We're gonna start wrapping this one up.

Because I have to go. But we're still going to try and do real quick a bonus question after this for our patrons. Because we love you guys that much, we're going to answer.

If we had to air as parents, if we had to pick an error, we get to choose between overbearing, dead or step parent, which how are we going to air? So if you want to hear that, hang around. But as far as recommendations go, man, super Easy, Kingdom Hearts, Chain of Memories.

I mentioned that earlier. If you can get the Game Boy advanced version, it's an excellent game.

I kept thinking like, man, this is such a subpar game compared to some of the other ones. It's like this and Dream Doc, distance aren't great. And it's like, no, remastered Chain of Memories is not great.

Original Chain of Memories is still awesome. So that's my recommendation. Will, what about you?

Will Rose: 00:47:36

If you want to really have a reflection on parents and humanity and what's important or not, go see Super Superman.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:44

I mean, I wish I could. I might. We'll see. Guys, if you're on a laptop, please listen to the rating review in our show. Good pods, Podchaser, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

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Will Rose: 00:48:32

Look, look, you're choosing the opposite side. That's getting outside. Finally, you found it good. In my catchphrase.