What If Church Embraced Comic Con Culture?

Laura Wittman: 00:01:14

What if church felt like a Comic Con where everyone was not only welcomed, but celebrated for who they are? This episode is for anyone who's ever felt like maybe church wasn't a space where they could be their full, authentic nerdy self.

We're imagining what it would look like if our Sunday gatherings looked more like fandom gatherings. So today I've got my friend TJ here with me. Tj, you want to say hi?

TJ Blackwell: 00:01:38

Hello.

Laura Wittman: 00:01:39

What have you been geeking on out, geeking out on lately? I can say words.

TJ Blackwell: 00:01:45

Yeah. Famously good at that. Me, personally, I've regressed. I got back into Valorant and Counter Strike. It's just tactical shooters, nothing interesting.

It's pretty great.

Laura Wittman: 00:01:58

Sounds like fun there. For me. It's been Pokemon tcg, like the app. It's been sort of filling the need.

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:05

Yeah. I know a lot of people who are getting on Pokemon Pocket.

Laura Wittman: 00:02:08

Yes. Yeah, it's, you know, it's fun. It's fun. It's just not. It's not the same.

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:13

But, yeah, I love gambling, but.

Laura Wittman: 00:02:15

Right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:16

I'm just not a Pokemon Pocket player.

Laura Wittman: 00:02:18

Exactly. All right, friends, well, if you're on a laptop, please rate and review on podchaser or good pods.

And phone users rate and review us on Apple or Spotify to help us get found. We also want to give a word of thanks to Russell Gentry for supporting the show. And if you'd like your own shout out, you can subscribe too.

And we would be happy to give a shout out to you during sharing our podcast. So do that. It's a great investment. Wink, wink. All right, so today we're talking about what the church could learn from comic Cons.

I have been going to cons for a long time, and I'll never forget my very first Con. I left thinking, wow, this is the most inclusive and diverse place I've ever really just spent time in.

And wouldn't it be cool if the church was a lot more like that? Church and con spaces both center on community, but only one typically lets you show up in full cosplay.

Now, that doesn't mean that some of us don't still show up to church dressed up from time to time.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:23

Right.

Laura Wittman: 00:03:23

But it's not as widely accepted.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:27

Yeah. And there are, like, special cases. You know, you have, like, motorcycle churches. And that's true. That kind of thing.

Laura Wittman: 00:03:33

That's true. The whole, like, cowboy church thing.

And, you know, one time I did wear my Ghostbusters costume, proton pack and everything on Pentecost because we were talking about the Holy Ghost and that was fun. Any good excuse?

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:46

That's kind of so you. So you were going to bust the Holy Ghost?

Laura Wittman: 00:03:49

Well, you know, we tried not to, you know, but we talked about Ghost and the Ghost. I don't know. It didn't fit. It was an excuse to wear my proton pack.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:57

Someone started speaking in tongues and you turned on the proton pack.

Laura Wittman: 00:04:01

Just don't cross the streams. It'll be fine. So I think we've all felt, though, that tension between sacred spaces and those things that we are passionate about. What is it for us?

Where do we find that sacred space or those places where we can be fully ourselves? And it matters because we're in a world where there is some skepticism, maybe towards the church or towards systems or establishments as a whole.

And so how do we create space where people feel that belonging that they might feel at a convention? And what can that teach us about where the Holy Spirit is moving in the world around us? So let's dive in.

So, tj, what's your Comic Con experience like?

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:44

So I've never been to a Con that I wasn't speaking at.

Laura Wittman: 00:04:49

Okay.

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:50

Like, I've never just attended a Con just because, like, I much would prefer to be at home doing something mode, like 90% of the time. So usually when it comes up, I'm like, oh, no. Or like, it just doesn't work with my work schedule. So I've never been to a Con just to go to a Con.

The ones I've spoken at, though, really fun. It's always a good time. It's just me personally, I love being in my home. I pay to live here, you know, I'm going to enjoy it.

Laura Wittman: 00:05:22

That's fair. So for me, GalaxyCon is my favorite weekend of the year every year. GalaxyCon is in Raleigh every year. And it. Well, it's all over the place, actually.

They go to Richmond, all sorts of places. But we've been going to galaxycon since it was still Supercon, which was a long time ago, almost, I guess, eight or nine years ago.

So not that long, but long. And so that's our big vacation every summer is to go to galaxycon. Our kids dress up. My husband and I dress up.

We sit in on panels like it's a whole thing for our family. And I think our most exciting moment was a few years ago. Ernie Hudson was at GalaxyCon. And again, we're a Ghostbusters family.

But my, my middle son was obsessed, like, obsessed obsessed with Ghostbusters. And he especially loved Ernie Hudson. And so there's this long line of people in line to ask questions.

And Alan at the time was, like, three years old. And I'm holding him, and we go up to the microphone, I say, alan has a question. And he goes, Mr. Hudson? He goes, I love this town.

And at first, Ernie Hudson was like, yeah, I like Raleigh, too. And then he realized that was his last line in the movie, and he lost it.

So for the rest of the time, when we'd run across him at the con, because he would just wander around, he'd look at my kid and yell, I love this town. And it was just the coolest thing. And so cons, I feel like, not only let you create a sense of belonging, but they let you.

I don't know, there's a sense in which you sort of develop a camaraderie, even with people you don't know at all, even the celebrities. And there's something really cool about that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:00

Yeah, it almost feels like the summer camp effect, where, like, everyone's just. Just happier in general. Like, everyone's more willing to meet strangers.

For sure, everybody's a stranger, and you're all here doing something you love. Unless you got forced to go to summer camp, in which case, sorry, but, you know, a lot of us wanted to go, so it feels similar to me. So it's. It's.

There's less pressure. Like a church where, you know, everyone expects you to be a certain way. At a Con, everyone just expects you to be you. So.

Laura Wittman: 00:07:36

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think there's something really beautiful about that sort of just sense of camaraderie.

There's a girl that goes to galaxy Con every year with her violin, and she walks up to different people and will play the theme song for whatever they're dressed as, just on the fly. It's one of the coolest things. So thinking of cons as maybe the new, Not a replacement for the church, but as a church experience.

Comic cons are places that are typically pretty inclusive. You can be a Jedi or a hobbit or a superhero or just be yourself, and somebody is going to find you and recognize you and make you feel welcome.

People gathered for a shared story, A sense of belonging for the love of whatever it is that they are, you know, part of the fandom of, and they're designed to make space for everyone. So what would it look like if churches took a page from that book?

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:32

Yeah. So I feel like what happens in a church is, you know, you show up. Everyone expects you to be perfect.

Like, churches aren't a place for you to become closer to God anymore. You're just supposed to be there already. No one expects you to act that way.

And a lot of churches, you just go in, you sit down, you do nothing, you listen for 40 minutes and maybe sing a couple of songs, and you go home. And a lot of churches have lost that. Like, this is where we build ourselves up. This is where we spread the word.

This is where we deal with our problems. That's gone. The church is no longer the place where the community gathers. It's where we go before Sunday lunch.

Laura Wittman: 00:09:13

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:15

So coming over that, I think, would be pretty helpful, for sure.

Laura Wittman: 00:09:20

Yeah. I remember growing up being a preacher's kid. If you didn't go to church, you didn't get to go out to eat afterwards. That was the rule.

So you could skip, but you also skipped out on Outback or wherever we were going that day for lunch.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:34

Yeah. I agree with that. As someone who works in a restaurant on a lot of Sundays, I agree with that.

Laura Wittman: 00:09:38

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:39

A lot of times somebody will come up after they've eaten and order something else. I was like, don't get them anything. They didn't go to church. They don't get to eat.

Laura Wittman: 00:09:48

Yeah. Punch the ticket, you know. No, it's so true, though. Do we. And.

And I realize there are definitely some churches where there's more of a shared vulnerability in that sort of space. But what if that was the absolute MO of the church that we come and we bring our vulnerabilities, we bring the entirety of who we are into worship.

We're not just trying to create a cohesive space. Right. But there's.

There's space for us to share what it is that we believe or to share our experiences or to share our pains or the things that we're going through at the moment. One of the things that I love so much about cosplay is it is a chance to. To really lean into what it is that you love. Right.

Or to express yourself in a different way through costuming, through whatever it is that you may do to cosplay. And we have this conversation in the church a lot about the imago dei, dei, and how what it means to have the image of God within us.

And being made in the image of God includes creativity, imagination, and identity. So if Comic Cons celebrate individuality, why does the church often seem suspicious of it?

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:04

Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be so fun if people came to church just dressed like wise men.

Like, if everyone just came to church, like their linen robe, you know, whatever they have made out of like, one material. I think that would be a lot of fun and not detract from the church. I feel like that's what a lot of people are afraid of.

Like, they think if they are to themselves, they're going to distract people from God.

Laura Wittman: 00:11:30

Mm.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:31

That's not how that works.

Laura Wittman: 00:11:32

For sure.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:33

That's not how that works.

People often, I'll find, are going to church just because, like, they're supposed to, and they're not going because, you know, they want to be in the church. They're going because people expect them to be in the church.

Not saying you shouldn't be in the church, but I am saying you should probably go to one where it feels like you belong and you want to be there.

Laura Wittman: 00:11:57

Yeah. It's been interesting where I serve at Lewisburg College. You know, I'm the chaplain there.

And it's always funny to me when we start the semester, I have students that are like, I didn't know that a pastor could have tattoos or that it was okay for a Christian to play Call of Duty or, you know, all of those sorts of things. They'll ask me those kind of questions, you know, is it okay for me to be a believer and play Fortnite? You know, and.

And I think in church, we don't talk about those things enough to give people space, to realize, yes, it's okay to be a human being that is. That has things that you love and things that you participate in.

I did a whole sermon series once on Star wars, and there were some people that were like, can we please stop talking about Star wars in church? Because you're obsessed with it. Chill out.

But there were other people who were like, wow, I didn't realize there were so many connections between Star wars and the gospel and this image of light and dark and how do those things tie together?

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:54

Yeah, we had one of those. One of the pastors we've had at our church in the past was great. All the kids loved him. He was.

Because he was the youth pastor, but he was also the associate pastor. You know how that goes. And small church business. But one day he was in charge Sunday morning, and he did a Lord of the Rings sermon.

And all of the older members of the church was like, yeah, we got to get rid of him. Got to get rid of him. Even though, you know, it's Lord of the Rings. So, like, it's pretty much just the Bible. They got rid of it. They voted them out.

So the church has declined a bit since then. A little bit.

Laura Wittman: 00:13:35

It's so crazy.

Because when you hear about those things happening, you just wonder, did you really listen to what the sermon had to say, or was it just you heard the title and you're like, nope, this isn't for us.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:46

They're just like, oh, magic. Don't like magic.

Laura Wittman: 00:13:50

Let me tell you about a story where Jesus turned water into wine. And I'm not saying it's magic. I'm just saying there are similarities in how these things play out. Right. You know, what if we didn't get so stuck.

I think that's what happens, is we get so stuck on semantics and on these things that we refuse to see that Jesus spoke in parables. Right.

So why not take all these parables and these stories that are out in the world and remind ourselves that the gospel can find its way into a lot of things if we just take the time to pay attention to it?

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:21

Yeah. And it's. A lot of. It just feels like the church can be stuffy, like you're not supposed to express yourself.

Laura Wittman: 00:14:28

Absolutely.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:30

That's more of a cultural thing that's kind of difficult to fix. But wouldn't it be nice if walking into church felt like walking into galaxycon?

Laura Wittman: 00:14:37

Yeah. Yeah. You know, what if the organist saw you and they're like, you're wearing a Zelda shirt. Let me play the intro music for you. On the organization.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:46

Here's great. Fairy fountain. Read John 3:16.

Laura Wittman: 00:14:50

I love it. That's great.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:53

It just. It does feel that. That pressure to, like, be dressed up in, like, a specific way.

Like, you know, I don't know how the church uniform became business casual. No, no. If that was a little different, maybe people would be a lot more comfortable.

Laura Wittman: 00:15:12

Yeah. It's funny, I've. Now that I'm not working as a pastor on Sunday mornings, I'm just pastoring at a school on Sundays.

I go to church with my husband now, which is weird because we're both pastors, so we haven't always been able to do that. So I did the preacher wife thing and I joined the choir.

So my problem is I have to dress up every day of the week, and Sunday is the only day I can wear jeans.

So you better believe on Sunday, I'm rolling into the church in jeans, which I wouldn't have done before as the pastor, because it's like, well, you know, is that going to distract people or make somebody uncomfortable? But for me, I'm like, I feel like Jesus would be okay with me wearing my jeans so that I could be comfortable and enjoy where I am on Sunday.

Mornings is the one day I can be myself and not have to be dressed up or looking a certain way.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:04

Yeah. And that's another thing I. You know, the Bible does say to be respectful of the people around you.

And a lot of the older people in our churches, you know, find it disrespectful to not be dressed up at church. So I understand it, too. And that's just, again, a cultural thing.

Laura Wittman: 00:16:20

For sure. For sure. I remember in Still Magnolia, there's a line where Dolly Parton says, God doesn't care what you wear as long as you show up. Right.

But it is hard because especially when you are brought up a certain way, to see that shift can feel like it comes from a place of disrespect. Or we could see, hey, people are feeling at home and more comfortable here, which is always a good thing, Right?

So what if churches had cosplay Sundays?

And I don't mean, y' all trunk or Treat when we tell everybody to dress up as a Bible character at Trunk or Treat, but I mean, what if churches had full on cosplay Sundays where you came as your favorite character? Who would you dress up as?

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:02

That's hard. I don't know. It would be expensive because I don't like to do things cheaply. But Corvo Attano from Dishonored, most of it would be really cheap.

But I want the mask to be, like, functional. So probably Corvo. And that would. I would understand if I got some looks for that on a Sunday.

But that's the kind of thing like, church is just for you being yourself. I think it'd be super fun to be in cosplay, you know, talk about it for 10 minutes before the sermon starts. And then do church.

Laura Wittman: 00:18:33

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:34

And then everyone does fellowship and they're in their costume, I think that kind of thing. Yeah. You could probably get away with that in a bigger city.

Laura Wittman: 00:18:42

That's very true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:42

Not for me. I think that would be a hard, hard sell at my church. But that would be super fun.

And, you know, it doesn't even necessarily have to be a Sunday if, you know, we could take baby steps Wednesday night.

Laura Wittman: 00:18:55

That's true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:56

Wednesday night, cosplay. But eventually, cosplay Sunday I could see happening.

Laura Wittman: 00:19:01

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:02

Because cosplays can be super casual. I've been working at my restaurant for a very long time, and sometimes they allow us to dress up for Halloween.

The first year that I worked for Chipotle. Just gonna say it. Hope I don't get fired, but I didn't Know that. So I just bought.

Wore some clothes, and I had, like, a beige vest and I had my lab goggles because I was in bio lab and chem lab that year. And I put on some khakis and some nice little tan boots, and I was Luke. I was hoth Luke at work and my little fuzzy hat on.

It was great, and it was ridiculously hot, but it was worth it. It was fun.

Laura Wittman: 00:19:49

I love it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:49

That'd be Luke Skywalker at work.

Laura Wittman: 00:19:50

I love it. But it might have been hot there. But do you know what the temperature is inside of a tauntaun?

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:56

Yeah, it's lukewarm. Honestly, probably insane.

Laura Wittman: 00:19:59

It's lukewarm.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:00

It's lukewarm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:20:04

Anyway, so cosplay. I know. I love that, though. I think that's. It's. It's so. Last year at school, I was. I'm just used to Halloween being a big thing.

It's my favorite holiday of the year, if I'm just being honest, which, you know, it's just a fun holiday. I love it because my kids are into it. We have traditions around Halloween. And so last year at school, I was like, I'm going all out.

So I did my Mrs. Frizzle costume, did the hair, had the thing, everything, and showed up at school, and only one other person in the entire campus dressed up that day. And so I.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:43

That's tragic.

Laura Wittman: 00:20:44

Felt so weird. That's so sad day. And what was sad, though, is I had a couple students who were like, Ms. Frizzle.

And then the rest of my students were like, this is how you dress every day. So we didn't know. So that's normal, right? Like, this is just what you look like. It's fine. I'm like, okay, well, maybe that's kind of funny.

Maybe every day is cosplay Sunday for me. I don't know.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:06

That would be such a fun thing, though, because on Halloween, like, there are so many teachers and media that you could be on Halloween.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:13

It's very true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:14

Like, somebody could be Coach Carter.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:16

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:17

Mr. Ratburn. Like, there's. There's a lot you could do there.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:20

It's very true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:21

Super fun.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:22

Yeah. No. So this year, as I'm typing up my syllabi for the fall, I'm like, if you dress up on Halloween, you get extra credit.

So we'll see if anybody follows that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:31

Oh, yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:31

But.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:32

Oh, yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:33

So in line with that, thinking about how churches could be more like a con. What if churches had panels instead of sermons with a Q and A Dialogue. Like, what if you could just ask questions in the middle.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:47

Yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:21:48

Of church? How cool would that be? I mean, it'd be terrifying as a pastor, but how cool would that be as people sitting in the pews on Sunday morning?

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:57

Yeah, that would be great.

Because it's like, that's something that we in the church reserve for, like, conferences, you know, like, it's, you know, once a year, go to the conference there. You can ask your questions. It. The church deserves to be more than that.

Laura Wittman: 00:22:11

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:12

You should be able to do that kind of thing on a Sunday. Maybe like, you know, maybe not every Sunday at first, but, like, if you have a question about the sermon, you should be able to ask it for sure.

You know, instead of sitting there and getting on your phone and being like, what is. What does this mean? You should be able to ask your pastor, because they know, they did the research.

Laura Wittman: 00:22:33

And then hopefully you'd have those few people that are like the ones that get in line at a con and always ask the same question. What's your favorite flavor of ice cream? That one always cracks me up.

You'll be in the midst of these deep conversations, and here comes that one person with their question that they ask at every panel. What's your favorite flavor of ice cream? So you could have those gimme questions. Right.

But at the same time, I mean, I don't think get up and, like, challenge your pastor. Like, what were you thinking when you said, but, you know.

TJ Blackwell: 00:23:00

Right.

Laura Wittman: 00:23:00

But to ask, like, where did that story come from? Or you talked about this thing that you learned in this movie. Tell us more about that or how it, you know, how you found that image or how can we.

What if we taught people how to find those images? And in movies, you know, how do you see God in every movie that you watch or every book that you read?

And if we taught people to see it, maybe it'll be less scary when the pastor talks about Lord of the Rings on a Sunday morning, you know.

TJ Blackwell: 00:23:27

Yeah. And that's.

This is one of the major advantages that I feel the Catholic Church has, because if you attend the Catholic Church, you can go up there every day. There's something going on. You go up there every day.

The Catholic Church, I think, and, you know, the Orthodox church churches have kind of maintained that sense of community a lot better than, you know, I was going to say Pentecostal, but Protestant for sure. I feel like. Feel like some Pentecostal churches still do a good job.

We try, but I feel like that is one major thing that we lost During Reformation, for sure. Maybe. Maybe open the church every day, then we could. Maybe we could afford to keep it open every day if we felt like a real community.

Laura Wittman: 00:24:12

It's very true. Like, what if church, you know, not just theoretically on Sundays or Wednesdays, we're creating this space of community.

But what if it was a genuine space? Like, you're bored, show up and play cards, or, you know, just come and ask questions.

You know, it's a space that you can actually show up at and bring yourself and your questions and you. You know, your hobbies and all the things that you love with you.

TJ Blackwell: 00:24:38

Yeah. Like, there's a church in my hometown where people just go play basketball. Does the pastor love to play basketball? So, yeah, it would be there.

It was awesome. It was great.

And it really felt like being a part of the community because you just meet a bunch of people that live in the town that you've never met to play basketball at a church.

Laura Wittman: 00:24:56

I think that's awesome. To create that space and that community. It's also it.

It reminds people, too, that your pastors are not these perfect people who live in the sanctuary. And it's. I always feel like people see pastors, like, the way kids see their teachers.

Like when they're out in public, they're like, whoa, what are you doing outside of the church?

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:16

Yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:17

I didn't know you could leave and go to Target.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:22

That's weird.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:23

Yeah. It's crazy.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:24

I don't know, it even feels a little odd to go, like, with your pastor out to eat after church. Maybe you're sitting there across from your pastor, you're like, huh, they eat.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:33

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:34

I didn't think they had to do that.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:37

They live by the word of God.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:39

Yeah. I thought they just ate pages from their Bibles.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:42

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:43

That's why they have to buy so many.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:44

Drink the living water. Totally sustained, you know?

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:47

Yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:25:48

We give them a loaf of bread and some fish every year. They eat off it for all eternity, you know? It's great.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:53

Yeah. And if they run out, they eat the communion wafers. They pace themselves for the. For the communion wine.

Laura Wittman: 00:26:01

That sounds terrible. Could you imagine?

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:06

That's a hard life.

Laura Wittman: 00:26:07

Yeah. That's not for me. Take me.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:09

That's a hard to.

Laura Wittman: 00:26:09

Chili's. And let me get those mozzarella sticks. The Nashville hot ones.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:13

I love those. Oh, yeah, I love those. They're so good.

Laura Wittman: 00:26:15

Delicious.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:16

Chili's is great.

Laura Wittman: 00:26:19

So on this topic, what if spiritual practice practices within our churches or within our communities were styled the way that you see Artist Alleys or tabletop areas in a convention. So one of the things that, first of all, galaxycon has gotten huge. It takes up all of this space in downtown Raleigh.

It's at the convention center, but it's also throughout the hotels and stuff too. So one of the things I love is usually there's a big tabletop gaming room where there's a library of games.

But then people also just show up with their games and sit at a table until someone shows up to play with them, which is really cool. There's just like this innate sort of assumed invitation for whoever wants to go. So you don't have to show up with your own board games.

You don't even know how. Have to know how to play a game because somebody will teach you. And the same thing with these, like, artists alleys.

Galaxycon always has a huge artist alley with a whole room filled up with lots of space where you can show up and talk to the artists and ask questions or get to know people who have designed, like, comic books and all sorts of things. There's this access that you get.

So what if that was a spiritual practice for the church to just show up and be in the community and be in the world in such an invitational way?

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:39

That would be great. I just. Because, I don't know, that's the kind of thing that makes a con feel special. Also a little solicitous.

But, you know, it feels like a community and you can always find someone who is, you know, making something that you're interested in. So if we had, if church was like that, if the foyer was just full of people showing off that the, you know, the stained glass they're making.

Laura Wittman: 00:28:03

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:28:03

And different scenes in the Bible, that would be awesome. And you could buy one, be super cool. And it's a great way to, like, actually get some practice and some confidence.

If you're like one of those creatives who likes to create things and, you know, that just has them sitting around because they don't want to risk selling them. Feel at a church, people are a lot more willing to, you know, buy something even if it's not perfect.

Like, you know, there's a couple errors in it and that's okay. I'm still going to buy this because it looks great. So that would be so super cool.

And then just if before and after church, people are just hanging around, sitting around, playing cards, talking about the Bible. That's what a community feels like, for sure. That's what college felt like, you know.

Laura Wittman: 00:28:44

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:28:45

You don't know what to do just walk around? Somebody's doing something?

Laura Wittman: 00:28:49

No, I love that.

I think that's one of the things that is so cool about, like, college campuses is that people, even if they're in their dorms or doing their own things, like, they're still part of a community. They're all going to run into each other and, you know, there is no escaping the inevitable community that is within a college campus.

And so, yeah, that idea that you can just run into someone and say, hey, what are you doing right now? Yeah, right now, right in this moment. In fact, I have a student who's really good at that.

If I'm walking across campus and she sees me, she'll say, hey, you want to go to the chapel and pray with me? And it won't just be her and I. She will stop every person that we see along the way and say, hey, what are you doing right now?

And she'll ask them how long they have till they need to be there, and she'll invite them to come and pray. And it's just, she has that. That sort of calling that is very innate within her.

What if churches had merch tables or, you know, ways that we could support the creators within our churches?

I mean, like you said, you know, you walk through church, somebody selling their stained glass windows or something, that allows us to see the beauty and the creativity that we all have to. To offer.

I think sometimes we're afraid to share our talents and what it is that we have for fear of judgment or, like you said, that lack of perfection.

But I think one of the ways that the church could grow is in being able to point out our own imperfections and to remember that to be knit together means you're going to have a few loose stitches. Right. But there's, you know, that's part of the beauty of it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:30:21

Yeah. And the church historically has supported the arts and that. That feels kind of lost these days.

Nowadays, the only talent you can have that a church is going to really, you know, endorse and support is singing. Yeah, like, oh, you can sing. Awesome. You can dance. That'll be cool. Once a month. Once a month. That'll be awesome.

It's just those things that the church seems to care about these days, or a lot of them at least.

So it'd be awesome if, like, if your passion is, you know, creative writing, short writing, you know, recontextualizing Bible stories into, like, more modern stories, and you just have those out on a table and like, hey, take a look at this. That'd be awesome. That'd be so cool. Just that. That space to express yourself within the tradition. That's.

That's not something that's really offered in. In just everyone's church.

Laura Wittman: 00:31:14

Right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:15

We have to seek that out. We have to go to a conference for that, and we have to pay a lot of money to go to those conferences.

Laura Wittman: 00:31:21

Right, right. Yeah. Almost like a liturgical crowdsourcing. Like, here's our shared stuff that as a church, we value and bring to the table.

You know, here's everybody's things that they can do and that they can design and that they can practice, and how can we get people interested in those different things, you know? So this is a little bit of a shameless plug, because I'm getting ready to start my doctorate work in this particular topic.

But one of the things that's growing in the church right now, at least in sort of the Protestant world, is the Fresh Expressions movement. A lot of churches have things like this, but they have different names or titles.

So in the Methodist Church in particular, where I come from, Fresh Expressions is sort of rooted in this very idea that church is not just about meeting on Sunday morning, but it's about going out to the places where you already are and finding ways to connect in natural ways to show people that God is good, that there's something worth celebrating and getting to know. But it celebrates the things that people are already doing. So, for instance, there's Fresh Expressions churches that take place in tattoo parlors.

So everybody goes and gets a tattoo together, and that's their expression.

But then they talk about God, or, you know, there's groups that have, like, D and D groups that get together and they play D and D. And, you know, it's not necessarily always churchy, but they'll share their vulnerabilities and their stories and their things that are going on in their lives. And it. It takes this very sort of personal place within the community. And so there's. Like I said, there's lots of different ways.

I know the Methodist church because that's where I come from, but there's lots of different ways that that's happening in the church right now, where we're trying to get church outside of the building and out into the world and to meet and connect with people and build community where people already are.

TJ Blackwell: 00:34:03

Yeah, that's awesome. I do feel you mentioned T and D, and I just. I'm gonna throw it out there. I know.

We'll bring it up again later, but we're talking about building a good church community that's us. That's our Discord server. Join the Discord Server link should be below. Get in there, start talking. Let's. Let's build a real community, for sure.

But also, if there is enough interest, we absolutely, absolutely will start playing D and D again for our patrons. It's pretty. It's pretty fun. Christian's a good dm.

Laura Wittman: 00:34:33

So I love dnd. Like, love dnd. And I have tried to kindly coerce my students into playing D and D. Like, I've offered extra credit for it and you see a theme here.

I'm offering extra credit for things, but. But I. It doesn't. They're not so interested because they think they're not ready to embrace their inner nerd. Right?

But if church brought this out of them, imagine where that could lead. Right?

And oddly enough, there was a summer camp, a Methodist summer camp at our school a couple of weeks ago, and we did do a D and D group with like, 25 kids, which, by the way, do not Recommend Trying to DM for 25 people. However, it was chaos and it was so much fun. But, yes, I would love for people to jump in and play D and D with us.

That would be so much fun because I am, as I'm sure some of you can imagine, a chaos person in all ways when it comes to D and D. Just chaos. That's me.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:33

Oh, yeah. So let us know if that's something you'd be interested in. And joining us on Patreon. We will start doing that again.

Laura Wittman: 00:35:40

I'm here for it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:42

We will start doing that again.

Laura Wittman: 00:35:43

So I think all of this comes down to a question of how can the church create space for people to be truly who they are? And even if the church doesn't create space on its own, how can we show up fully with all that we are into those spaces? And what would it.

What would it do to those who maybe have been afraid to enter those spaces to know, hey, there's someone just as nerdy as me there, or there's someone like me in that space or someone who has the same questions I do.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:18

Yeah, that's like, I think one of the coolest things about playing games online, you know, specifically, like, for specifically tactical FPS games, which I play a lot, you know, like Counter Strike Valorant, even to a certain extent, like hero shooters like Marvel Rivals and Overwatch, but less so. You'll get into a lobby and someone on the other team will have a name. Like their name will be based off of something that you like a lot.

And then you'll talk to this person on the other team and then if you like that thing a lot, you'll just kind of be stuck there thinking like, because you'll talk to them and y' all will talk like in, in game chat to each other. And then you'll just have to get like railed, just absolutely dumpstered for 13 rounds. And then you're still trying to be friends.

It's just a, It's a really fun time. It's really fun. It's a lot of fun.

It just happened to me before we started doing this, but it's a great time because you're like, oh, his name's Gabby Maru. He watched Hell's Paradise. Sweet. Better talk to this guy.

Laura Wittman: 00:37:22

I love it though, because it's a space where there is intentional, you know, sort of. It's an intentional space where you can have that sort of invitation and finding your common ground. We did this really cool activity.

I talk about school a lot. I'm sorry, it's what's on my brain. But we had this really cool activity during our orientation last week where we played the popcorn game.

And if anybody has done youth ministry, you've probably seen this before where you start out by saying, I'm Laura and I, you know, have a dog and I like cosplay. And then whoever relates to some, you just keep going until somebody pops up and says, I also like cosplay.

And then they'll start listing things about themselves and it goes on and on.

It was really fun to watch this group of 18 year olds play this game because they would say the wildest things, but then they all found something in common with somebody else in the room just by playing that game. And it was just an intentional space to sort of be crazy and to have fun and to shout out things that you like.

And I, I wonder, even in this sort of mindset, what if we did that in church and we just popped up and we're like, hey, you know, I'm Laura and I like to play Call of Duty and, you know, I collect Pokemon cards. Like, what joy I would find if someone on the other side of the church stood up and yelled at. I also collect Pokemon cards.

That would be so cool because I know somebody's there. They're just not going to jump up and say it in church without the invitation to do so.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:46

Yeah, what cracks me up is seeing like really young kids. By really young kids, I do mean like 18 year olds. I'm not that much older than them, but that's still A really young kid.

To me, they're like, yeah, I listen to Steely Dan. Okay, sure, man. You do? All right. That's normal.

Laura Wittman: 00:39:04

The worst, though, is when they wear.

No offense to any of our young people out there, but when they wear, like, Metallica shirts, and you get tricked into thinking they like Metallica, but they don't actually. They just like the shirt. So there's got to be some sort of, like, reverse invitation where we can say, hey, you like the shirt?

Let me introduce you to someone.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:24

Yeah. Like, at least try, right?

Laura Wittman: 00:39:28

I have fallen for that so many times because they'll come into class and they've got these shirts. I'm like, wow, cool. You know? And they're like, I don't know who that is at all.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:34

Like, yeah, yeah, it's tragic. It really stinks. I like, yeah, like, yeah, man. The shirt does look cool. And the shirt does look cool.

Laura Wittman: 00:39:44

It's tough. Yep, it's tough.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:47

Music's good, too. Whatever, right?

Laura Wittman: 00:39:50

No, only T shirts. No music, only T shirts. Well, friends, we're gonna sort of begin to wrap up a little bit here.

I do want to let you know about our subscriber bonus question, which is really going to be fun.

So if you want to hear it, the conversation around it, I'm still going to tell you the question, but if you want to hear the conversation, you got to subscribe. And the question for today is, what cosplay would Jesus wear at a Comic Con, and what would it reveal about his mission?

So as we wrap up today, do you have any recommendations or things you'd like for people to. To check out?

TJ Blackwell: 00:40:28

So I just.

The other day, I was just hanging out in my living room talking to my roommate about books we've read in the past, whatever, and we started talking about Patrick Rothfuss and how Doors of Stone is never gonna come out because he hates us. But that. That did, like, throw me back into the Kingkiller Chronicles. And if you.

If you're one of those people who've heard the name Patrick Rothfuss and you've heard about Name of the Wind and that kind of thing, and you just aren't sure. Just read slow Regard of Silent things. Experience his writing style. It's short. It's a novella. It's like 120 pages.

Like, it takes, you know, a few hours maybe, to read for you, and then just dive into the rest because if. I bet you'll like it. But if you don't like it, then you don't like it, and you probably won't like the rest of the series either.

Laura Wittman: 00:41:24

Well, thank you for that recommendation.

I, as I have been saying since March, have been reading every Matt Deniman book and I just finished Dungeon Crawler Carl and then I read one of his older books, Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon, which sounds ridiculous and it is ridiculous because it's lit rpg, which is always ridiculous. But I love it and it's kind of a depressing story. But I just want people to read all these Matt Deniman books with me so that I can talk about them.

Also, go watch Superman. I loved it. Fantastic. I know there's going to be an episode about Superman, so check that out. But Superman is really good, at least in my opinion.

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:02

Yeah, I've not heard anyone say it was bad.

Laura Wittman: 00:42:04

So far I loved it. And honestly, if I'm being honest, they have really under marketed crypto.

Like you got to put more crypto stuff out there for people like me who just want to buy buy all the crypto stuff because that's why I went to see it and then I ended up really liking the movie. But the dog is what got me there, so and my husband and as he should. But I love crypto. Crypto's adorable. Also, Go to a con.

There's lots of great ways if the idea of a huge con overwhelms you. There are lots of local cons like all over the place that you can go to, and if you need help finding one, send us a message.

We'd be happy to help you connect with one somewhere, but a great way to get started is just to go to a smaller con and check out local artists and things that can help you find connections within the community. So we would love to help you with that as well. Just a reminder, if you're on a laptop, be sure to leave us a rating on podchaser and good pods.

And if you're on your phone, you can do that on Apple or Spotify. And we want to give a final thanks to Jeanne Mattingly for supporting the show.

And until next time, friends, be blessed, be nerdy, wear your best cosplay, and come back to be a part of us.