Duel of the Fates: A Critical Examination of an Alternate Star Wars Episode 9

Joshua Noel: 00:01:14

How would you like to be haunted by and teased by Luke's Force ghost?

Well, today we're going to be discussing that and so much more as we review the screenplay for Star Wars Duel of the Fates as part of our All Reading counts series. We're excited for this one. You know, all of our all Reading counts. Just a way for us to promote literacy and our our local libraries.

This episode talking about Duel of the Fates. What? What? Duel of Fates is for people who want to know. It's the original plan for Episode nine. Star Wars. Episode nine.

This is before Disney decided to make the Rise of Skywalker instead, which is the canon Episode nine. That means for this episode, we're assuming that people listening are at least familiar with the sequel trilogy of Star Wars.

Going into the discussion, if anything I said so far sounds like mumbo jumbo. That's what all of this is probably going to sound like.

But if you've watched the sequel trilogy and you're like, okay, I know what you're talking about. Cool, you're on the right page. I'm Joshua Null. I am here with the reason for the season, if the season is any season that exists.

The one and only DJ Tiberius one. Blackblock. How's it going?

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:25

Good.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:25

Yeah. And today we are excited to jump into it. But before we do anything else, we gonna shout out what is the. What's the last thing you read?

That was a different piece of literature than the kind we're reading today. This wasn't a screenplay, which probably is anything you read. I assume you don't read a ton of screenplays.

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:46

Not, not frequently. It's not, you know, wake up every day, read a screenplay. That's pretty much only happened today. Ever.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:53

I mean you could though they're short. It turns out they are short. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:58

Probably a manga. Probably. It was probably Ichi the Witch.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:01

What's that about?

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:03

Boy witch in a girl. Which world?

Joshua Noel: 00:03:07

Well, shocking to some people. Half of my statements gonna be shocking and half is not. The last thing I read was also a manga.

The part that's not shocking is it was Kingdom Hearts 358x2 manga. Yeah. Turns out even if it's manga, if it's Kingdom Hearts, I still like it. I'm thinking this might end up being a gateway drug.

Like this is like the training wheels for me to learn how to read manga. Like maybe if it's story I already love, then I get used to the format and then I can get new stories with the same format but ease my way into it.

Yeah. That's the goal.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:41

I probably could just read one piece.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:43

I could.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:44

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:45

That would take so long. Oh, man.

But before we get into today's episode, I do want to remind if you're on a laptop, please consider rating, reviewing our show on podchaser or goodpod. It's going to help our show gain recognition and make it easier to find in other search engines like Google, Yahoo, aol, maybe, if that exists. Still.

Sg.

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:07

If you're on your phone, consider rating, reviewing or commenting on our show on Apple Podcast or Spotify. You know those apps that you're probably listening to this on that's going to help prioritize our show in those apps.

Algorithms again, which are most people is in the podcast. So thank you so much for your free support in advance. That only took you a couple seconds.

It was super easy, but we appreciate it because it helped us a whole lot.

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:28

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:29

Also, we got to shout out our sponsors today. Shouting out, Aaron Hardy, Aaron Yurok. Thank you so much for being one of our supporters.

I want to let everybody else know if you want your own shout out, you too can support our show for just $3 a month on one of the three platforms, Apple Podcast, Captivate, or Patreon. Again, this is part of our All Reading Counts series. So you want some more All Reading Counts.

There is a link down in the show's description where you can see all of the episodes we've done about about this and want to remind you if you purchase any of our All Reading Counts merchandise or buy our Patreon content for this, because you can buy separately just the Patreon stuff that we put out for All Reading Counts. Whatever money we do make, we will be donating to local libraries. So if you like libraries and like us, two for one, it's not all local.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:28

It's just my local library.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:31

So far, I think it's just been mine. And then specifically the library in Taylorsville, Kentucky, I donated to once because someone bought something pretty sweet.

Yeah, just a local library. Depending on my mood mostly. Unless when you give a gift, you tell me specifically which library to donate to that. Then I'll just do that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:50

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:50

Unless you're like, donate it to Library of. We really, really, really hate tj. I probably won't donate to that library. Actually, I might because it would be funny.

But at that end, that's different.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:03

Yeah. We're not donating to the Library of Congress though.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:06

Yeah, true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:07

I get enough money.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:08

Yeah. But we are going to jump into today's episode. This is Going to be a fun one. Duel of Fates. It's wild. I heard a lot about it.

I've skimmed it before, but I never actually just sat down and read the whole thing until, like, last week, maybe did it specifically for this. So I'm gonna have a lot of fun with it.

Before we get into the script for the Star wars that was never made, we want to talk about what is all reading counts and why we might think that that's the thing that matters. Perhaps. Yeah.

So, TJ for you, or if someone's watching this or listening to this and they've never seen one of our all Reading counts episodes before, how would you describe this initiative and what we mean when we talk about all reading counts?

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:56

So it's kind of an effort to destigmatize the act of, you know, saying, oh, I read a book, and then you read the audiobook version, and people tell you that doesn't count. Yeah, it counts. Of course it counts. So that extends obviously to, you know, comic books, manga, screenplays, anything.

Any reading, you're consuming written material, it counts.

And if you're gonna say it doesn't count, then you're just gonna say, no, blind people have ever read anything ever that puts you on the wrong side of history.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:27

So, yeah, yeah, don't be on the wrong side of history. They don't even have McDonald's.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:32

No, they don't.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:34

But, you know, I completely agree with everything TJ said. Weirdly enough, right now, I've been going back through the. That seventies show. I say back to. I've never watched it before.

My wife's going back through it, and I'm enjoying it for the first time. And it's really interesting how many times, you know, because, you know, since the 90s when that 70s show was made. Confusing. I know.

But since then, I feel like society's progressed a lot, so we don't have as much stigma, but the stigma exists. But it's still just really jarring to watch this where, like, someone's talking about, oh, yes, I wrote a really great book.

And then Eric or whatever is like, oh, yeah, me too. I read this comic, and everybody makes fun of them because, like, oh, that's stupid.

And I'm like, man, I'm really glad that we couldn't do that on TV today.

Like, I think it's important that we destigmatize this because of all the benefits that reading has that can be experienced across these different things. You know, we mentioned audiobooks.

Studies show that people who listen to audiobooks have the same benefits that you get from other types of reading or like comics, manga, all that kind of stuff. Do you want to shout in any of the benefits, you know, from reading before? I try to wreck my brain for what I remember.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:38

I mean, generally it's like increased wellness, depth of vocabulary, things that only matter if you're an elitist, but improve cognitive function late in life, that sort of thing. It's super beneficial for you to read to keep your brain healthy and active. It's a lot easier than most of the other paths to that. So.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:58

Yeah, yeah, I.

Well, because this isn't a science episode, I don't want to get too much into it, but, you know, when it comes to, like, Alheimer's and like a lot of your mental decay kind of stuff, we see there's a lot of correlation between when we started watching TV instead of reading books and a lot of correlation to, you know, sugar in our diets increasing exponentially as well, which is why Alzheimer's sometimes is referred to type 4, type 3 diabetes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:25

4.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:26

Yeah, but we won't get into that. I will say, you know, the cognitive thing later in life, that's super important.

Your ability to be creative, think on your feet, you know, if, you know, like the kind of people who are like, at work and suddenly they just found like a really into. Like, you're like, wow. How did you come up with that? Well, they're probably a reader.

Readers are more creative, you know, and just general longevity of life is mentioned. You want to live long. I mean, that's. That's kind of cool. Vocabulary is definitely a big one.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:52

It just.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:53

It keeps your brain sharp, you know, it's like working out a muscle. Except for I don't think the brain's a muscle for sure. It's not.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:01

No.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:01

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:02

Well, I think technically it's involuntary muscle.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:04

Yeah, it's one of those weird things because it's like, not sure, organ. But most of, like, the stuff that we think of it like as our mind is more like, has to do with electronics. We're all robots.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:14

It's definitely.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:15

Yeah. But anyway, that said, yeah, reading is important. We think it's important. We want you to read.

Even if it's a screenplay, which is not a kind of literature I've read before. But reading this, I definitely. I'll say, like, I'm like, man, I had to use my imagination a lot more than when I read most other books.

Like, a lot of regular novels. They're gonna describe stuff well enough that, like, I'm imagining It.

But I'm doing my best to imagine it the way the author said because, like, they told me how to imagine it. Nah, this is a script. They're gonna have concept art. We're gonna show some of the concept art here.

But, like, I read this before I saw any of it, and it's like, all right, gray BB8. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'll just imagine what a gray BB8 looks like.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:57

Like graphite PB8. Yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:00

Yeah. Speaking of which, concept art is sick.

This is one of those, like, you know, I think I would love everyone to be on our YouTube to, like, increase our subscriptions and all that, but, like, if you're the kind of nerd who likes concept art, this actually might be one of the episodes that's worth going to the YouTube.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:15

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:16

Because, like, Graphite BBA really does look good. You're like, okay. Seeing the concept art, I actually kind of get why no one was questioning why he was there. He's just a spy. He's great.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:28

It's really funny. I wish they would have, you know, at least done this and at some point just. Yeah, just paint him gray right in.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:37

Yeah, man, it was great. I. I loved all of this, even from the very beginning. And then going through, like.

Even, like, it's talking about different type of stormtroopers that were, like, buff troopers or something. Like, what were they?

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:47

Brute troopers?

Joshua Noel: 00:11:48

Yeah. I have no idea what that could mean. I was just imagining a lot of phasmas. I don't know.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:55

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of how they describe it.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:57

Yeah. So, I mean, you definitely exercise your imagination a lot. I. I am really curious. So for those who don't know, our patrons voted on this.

We let our patrons vote for which thing we read whenever we pick. So, like, we chose screenplays, and we gave, like, a list for our patrons to vote on. They voted this one.

I'm kind of curious what it'd be like to read a screenplay from a movie. I know really well this is a movie that doesn't exist, so we're not super familiar with it. So we had to imagine a lot. But I'm like.

I'm curious, like, if I read, like, the screenplay for Pirates of the Caribbean, would I still use my imagination as much, or would I, like, fill it in? Because I do know what happens. I've seen it, you know? Yeah. But maybe that'll be next time.

I'm sure we'll get around to screenplays Again, this was fun. I enjoyed it.

So tj when was the first time you heard of this particular screenplay, Duel of the Fates, as, like, that alternative ending we could have got?

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:49

It's probably been a couple years. You know, it gets thrown around every now and then just as what could have Been?

Joshua Noel: 00:12:57

Yeah, yeah, I. I feel like.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard it pretty much directly after we were all upset about Rise of Skywalker, someone was like, hey, did you hear you can actually read the screenplay of what could have Been. I was like, but I didn't actually read it. I didn't even skim it for a while because I was kind of. Honestly, I was worried.

I was worried that I was going to get mad at what we got because I. I really don't like Rise of Skywalker. Just full transparency. I know Will's daughter, Will likes it. It's cool. I don't.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:27

Not a fan.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:28

Yeah, I'm not a fan at all. And I was just like, man, I feel like I'm going to read this other script to be angry. And I just didn't want to be angry, so I didn't even skim it.

One of our other mutual friends, though, did and was like, hey, you know that thing that we said would be really cool if, like, Luke was just, like, tormenting Kylo. And I was like, yeah, he's like, yeah, that happens. Like, of course it does. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:47

Yeah. Luke's so funny.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:50

God, yeah, this. I mean, we're going into it later, but, like, this makes what Luke did in the Last Jedi make sense to me.

The Rise of Skywalker ruined that really cool thing that did.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:03

Yeah, I agree. It definitely also feels more in character for Luke.

There's a part where, you know, Kylo is talking to Luke's Force Ghost because Luke just shows up and he's like, hey, what's up, dummy? And, you know, Kylo's trying to obtain the power of Mortis, and he's like, I'm gonna get stronger than you ever were. And Luke's like, really? Are you.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:26

Good? Yeah. Well. And it never.

I don't think it ever explicitly states, but it pretty much clarifies, like, yeah, Luke Dish did this so that he could both torment Kylo and train Rey at the same time. He couldn't do that without becoming one of the Four. So he just did that. Yeah, because he can.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:45

And I'm like, he's Luke Skywalker.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:46

Yeah. I'm like, I'm not even a huge Luke fan. And I was like, no, that makes sense. That's awesome.

But also, like, how do you think the script has impacted like publicly like the Star wars culture around sequels because like I mentioned for myself, I didn't like Rise of Skywalker. And then I was weary about it. Like eventually I skimmed it and I was like, yeah, this would have been better.

And now I read it and I'm like, it would have been so much better. But like, I feel like weirdly enough, very seldomly, just like rumors of another movie impact a fan base as much.

But I feel like this script being released actually did kind of make some noise.

TJ Blackwell: 00:15:24

Yeah. Well, it's because it is Star Wars. It's a multi billion dollar franchise even at the time.

And it does just kind of make waves when they release something that a lot of people think is. Is really bad and stupid and then they also release the alternative.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:40

Yeah, it doesn't happen. I am kind of curious, like, if I would read the screenplay for Rise of Skywalker. What? I still think it's stupid.

I think I would because a lot of my problems really is like, story just doesn't make sense.

TJ Blackwell: 00:15:54

Yeah. Visually it's. It's great. Phenomenal. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:57

But I mean, even like this isn't a Rise of Skywalker bash session, but like, even like how they follow up on like the character progressions and like the ending of all the character stories. I'm like, so Rose just. It's just a mystic doesn't exist. Finn doesn't get any conclusion. Like, like there's a lot of stuff that I was like.

So I feel like even if I read the place, the script, you know, the script, I'd still probably be like, nah, not for me.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:21

Yeah, we should read it.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:23

Yeah, maybe that'll be a Patron exclusive in a couple of weeks. We could, we could come back and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we read that screenplay. It is bad. Or are we wrong? We read this.

If we would have just only released the script, we'd all love it. That'd be funny. Be funny if that's what we discovered. Yeah.

So specifically though, for Duel of the Fates, tj, do you think that you can summarize what happens in the script?

TJ Blackwell: 00:17:36

I think so. So the script, it a completely different movie. Remove all thoughts of Rise of Skywalker from your head. It's not the same.

So it feels a lot more like a new hope. Right. We're starting on the infiltration of this base.

BB8's trying to get some info, and from there we transition into seeing what the rest of the cast is doing.

You know, Po, Finn, Ray are all split up at this point and they verge, you know, there's, they insinuate that they've been separated for a little while, doing their own things in their own little corners of space.

And they converge here to try and take down a huge like fuel mining station on a planet where they sent Rose to beforehand to kind of get the lay of the land and get infiltrated. And so right off the bat, Rose is included.

Yes, already important immediately they do retain a lot of like the silliness from the original trilogy that people tend to forget about. Like they've got the weird looking aliens and they're interacting with them.

They, they realize, Poe and Finn realize that they've left Rose here too long when she starts feeding one of the baby aliens in the, the cantina where they meet up. Like, okay, yeah, maybe that was our bed. But from there we, I want to say next we transition to Kylo's point of view and what he's doing.

And at this time Kylo is looking for, he doesn't know it, but he's looking for the power to consume life force, right? So he is, you know, tracing Vader's steps to get to speaking to Darth Plagueis, which is Darth Sidious, the Emperor.

Well, Darth Vader's Darth Sidious master. So he's still involved, you know, the Emperor is still involved. He's dead in a flashback in this script. He's dead. Yeah, because he stays dead.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:34

Why wouldn't he be?

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:35

Yeah, he stays dead. But we find out his master's master is alive. 700 year old alien, just like they just wanted a Yoda figure for the Sith, I guess.

So Kylo visits Darth Vader's castle on Mustafar, finds a holocron that reveals that information, and then he goes to find this super old Sith master named Tor Valloon and he gets like horribly disfigured by Vader's Sith holocron because it scans him. He says that ain't Darth Vader. So he gets kind of like the visual corruption in a much more severe way.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:09

And he has a beard.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:10

He has a beard, yeah. Important because some time has passed.

But I don't know if there is concept art of him just being covered in like blue, like purple veins and just horrible scarring.

But he has to go through his own Darth Vader transformation where they pour molten metal on his face and that heals him for some reason because it's Star wars. But we get him going towards that. Rey also decides to pursue the planet Mortis which is like the origin of the Force in this script.

That's kind of where the galaxy started for them. So that is their motivation. And they are separated in this script from the rest of the cast. So after a point, Kylo leaves, Rey leaves.

They're both pursuing the same goal. And then we have Hux, Finn, Rose, Leia, BB8, C3PO, Chewbacca, Poe. Did I say Poe? They're all here, and they're all going to Coruscant eventually.

And I think that is by itself is just way, way cooler than creating a bunch of new planets.

Joshua Noel: 00:21:17

And the way back to Coruscant looks now go.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:24

So what it builds up to is this massive siege, of course, Hunt before that, they go to, like, the ancient Jedi Temple on Coruscant to activate a beacon that will, you know, connect the universe and allow them to break through the Imperial blockade on comms. Because they blockaded the communications network so that the Rebellion couldn't build.

They can't talk to each other between planets the Rebellion can't build. So Finn and Rose initially take this quest on to activate this ancient Jedi Temple beacon that's they say is from the Old Republic, which I love.

Yeah, Old Republic love in this script. And it's super cool and awesome. So they get that fired up.

And that's around the same time that Kylo Ren does obtain a good amount of power from Torvalun. And he just stops it. He just stops it. He's. He's immensely powerful.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:19

Yeah. He just can't.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:21

Yeah. But after that beacon goes up, they decide, all right, well, let's. With siege the capital, the Imperial capital on Coruscant.

So they build this rebellion on Coruscant.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:31

Rebellion?

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:32

Siege the cap.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:33

How they built it, Was it built on hope?

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:35

It was built on hope in blue magic. Wow.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:39

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:40

So as Finn and Rose, Chewie, Leia organize this rebellion on Coruscant, Rey and Kylo are getting this temple on Mortis to try and seize, you know, like, the origin of the Force, you know, become the Force essentially in a living body. So we get there, super cool duel ray, loses their first duel, goes blind, you know, chases him down.

Later, after hearing Leia and Poe and Finn through the Force, because Rey has also reached this level of power that allows her to slip into oneness with the Force. So she blindfolds herself, goes and fights Kylo Ren.

He still gets his little redemption arc, you know, toward the end of his lifespan, where he tries to absorb, because that's the power he learns if your Legend's familiar. That's what Plagueis taught. He learns how to absorb life force.

And as he's trying to absorb Rey's life force because it is immense, because she is the chosen One, he's, like, overwhelmed with the Force and its connectivity to his mother and his enemies. He's just kind of overcome with grief. And then he loses and he dies. I do think that could have been handled better.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:57

Wait, that's not. I don't think that's quite right. Unless I misread, because didn't he drain her force to heal himself? And it was fine.

And then he went back into the cave, lost to a hallucination of Vader. Luke antagonizes him a little bit, and then he decides actually the right thing to do is to give the Force back to Rey.

And giving it back to her is what kills him.

TJ Blackwell: 00:24:18

Somebody read that too fast.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:20

I think I might be wrong. You guys read for yourselves and tell us which one of us forgot or read too fast or skipped lines. Because I'm adhd and he reads fast.

TJ Blackwell: 00:24:30

But I think while that's going on, you know, poe, then they're sieging the capital, the Imperial capital on Coruscant. They find out that it is a ship. You know, they just built the big, big ship into the city.

So Rose sneaks in, and she's, you know, trying to disable its hyper tribe because they're just gonna launch it out of the planet to get away. And, you know, I really do want everyone to go read this. I don't want to spoil it too much. The Empire loses because It's Star Wars.

BB8 has a huge role to play. R2D2 gets killed. Super temporarily super tense stuff. I mean, he is a droid, you know, but R2D2 dies, and it's traumatic.

It's the only good guy death, except for, like, the very beginning. And then when you get to Coruscant initially, but that happens during the final battle. Chewie picks him up. Chewie takes a bunch of shots.

Chewie lives because Chewie's awesome. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:25:29

Also, Chewy plays.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:29

They win. Chewy flies an X wing because throughout the. Throughout the script, he's mad that people keep calling the Millennium Falcon their ship and it's his.

They won't let him sit in his chair. But Rose can't disable the hyperdrive.

She just tweaks their navs so that when they take off and try and escape, they fly straight into another planet. So Rose, you know, kind of saves the day. Hux Kills himself, which came out of nowhere. Kind of.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:02

I kind of get it. But we'll get to that later. We'll get it all.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:06

Yeah. He impales himself with a. With a Mace Windu's lightsaber.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:09

That part came out like, why Mace Windu?

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:13

Pretty often. He just had a collection. Mace Winduz was one of them. And he chose that one, which is. Which is sick. And then Chewie gets his medal.

Rey briefly becomes one with the Force. She talks to Obi Wan and Yoda and Luke and Anakin's there. He comes back for some reason.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:29

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:30

Because he redeemed himself.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:31

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:32

In death.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:33

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:33

But like, yeah, he was powerful.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:35

That's true. That's true. Obi Wan, I feel like, might make less sense than Anakin, actually, now that I think about it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:42

I mean, those are just, of course, ghosts.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:44

Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. No, and then the school at the end. That part I thought was really cool too.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:50

Yeah. So Finn and Rose at the end kind of decide to open, like a safe place for force sensitive kids. And it's not a Jedi Temple.

And they're like, searching for Rey. Poe went off to find Rey because Poe and Rey are like a thing.

And that's part of what allows her to overcome Kylo and to stand back up and keep fighting. Because she accepts the emotions and uses, you know, utilizes the dark and light side of the Force within her and becomes one with the Force.

She'd be his Oneness. And then she shows up again. I think it's implied to be a few years later.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:28

Yeah. But they have a. The coolest part for me too. So they have one of the children that you see throughout this film appears there.

And so does the mop boy from the end of the Last Jedi. I was like, yes. And Poen fan.

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:45

He is a minor character, like, throughout the script.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:48

Yeah, yeah. Actually should have been. Yeah, yeah. It just. Well, they made me happy. And then there's so many subplots that I love too.

Like stuff that just wasn't addressed by the Rise of Skywalker. That they were like, hey, we're going to do some subplots to, like, address stuff.

Like, hey, what about the fact that, like, Finn used to be a Stormtrooper? Wouldn't some of them recognize them? Turns out. Yes. Turns out they also felt bad about what they were doing.

And he's able to convince some of them to turn against the Empire, which is part of why the Rebellion works, which is just got to be the most logical thing here. The subplot of like, like Chewie was cool.

I'm trying to think about the droids where R2D2 dies, but then, like, his memory banks gets transferred to BB8, and BB8 gets to be part of resurrecting R2D2. Like, that was cool. Yeah, yeah. Like, even. Even the subplot of, like, hey, what if battle to the Force isn't, like, good force wind, bad force loses.

I always thought that made sense. That, like, maybe the graveyard I write, maybe, like, it's using all parts of the Force and our emotions and our wholeness for good.

Force lightning, mind trick, force push. All of it can be good. Maybe. I thought that was cool, personally, but do you have any favorite subplots?

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:03

No, you are wrong. I was right.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:05

Wait, about what?

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:06

About Kylo seeing Anakin's Force ghost and all that stuff.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:12

He definitely does fight a hallucination of Vader. He does.

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:16

He doesn't.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:18

I think you're wrong.

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:19

He sees the. Like, a projection of Vader in his castle.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:23

Then what does it. What hallucination does he fight at the end?

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:26

He doesn't.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:28

Oh, you're right. He fights the hallucination of Vader that's on the. The Sith planet. Not Sith planet. When he's training with the Sith guy. Yeah, the end.

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:36

Is that when he's trying to learn.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:38

When does he see Han Solo?

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:39

Yeah, towards the end.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:41

Okay. But, yeah, I know Luke antagonizes him. He does die because he gives the Force back to Rey, though, right?

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:48

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:48

Yeah. Like, she doesn't actually win. Yeah, that was one of the cool parts. To me, it was like.

Yeah, it wasn't actually, like, she isn't just like, hey, I'm the most powerful person ever, and I just win. No, she actually was lost.

TJ Blackwell: 00:29:59

She was, though. She was the most powerful person ever.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:02

Yeah, that's why she lost. But part of it also was because, like, Luke was actively training her. Yeah. It's not just like, oh, she's the most powerful ever.

No, it turns out she's constantly training with Luke because the entire reason he gave himself up at the last Jedi was so that he could simultaneously antagonize Kylo as a Force ghost and also train Rey, because Luke's just that cool. And even, like, as a fourth Ghost, he's more there, more present than other Force ghosts.

Like, they really make a point of, like, hey, you know how, like, that one battle, how it looked like he was actually just there? Yeah. He's figured out how to do that after death now, too.

TJ Blackwell: 00:30:40

Yeah, he's like, Present.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:43

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:30:43

There's barely a blue outline around him.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:45

Yeah. It turns out Luke basically just doesn't die. That's just. Which I think is fitting and way cooler. Yeah. And to disagree with our.

I say our friends, the people we don't know who. A lot of our other hosts like Rebel Force Radio.

I gotta disagree with them too, because they talk about how they really try to justify Rise of Skywalker and how, like, it doesn't belittle Vader sacrifice. I think it does. I think the Empire being able to just be alive just kind of ruined a lot of stuff.

And this still makes a compelling story where the emperor is still important. We have all the callbacks. We're honoring our legacy characters. And Vader's sacrifice isn't just like, meh. He lived through that. It's fine.

You know, And Luke's sacrifice wasn't just brushed off because I feel like Rise of Skywalker belittled both of those sacrifices.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:36

Yeah. But I mean, he gets to remain involved. Like, Luke is still fully involved in this story.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:41

It's great. I would have loved it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:44

And it's great. And even Leia. Leia, you know, doesn't kind of die meaninglessly here.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:50

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:51

Which. And she's a great character. And Chewie finally gets his medal. This was a phenomenal send off for our legacy characters.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:58

Yeah. And even Han still shows up.

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:00

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:01

It's great.

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:02

And mostly flashbacks.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:04

Yeah. But he does have that one, like, forced thing moment. Very similar to what actually happened to Rise of Skywalker.

All right, but if you were to rate just this script, duel of fate 0 to 10, how would you rate?

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:15

Rule of probably like an 8, maybe 8 and a half. I think this on a screen would have been phenomenal.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:21

Yeah. I'm gonna give it a 9. But I also gonna recognize I'm super biased because I love the Last Jedi. And this makes the Last Jedi even cooler.

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:32

Yeah. I. I think just this script would have made it a much more cogent trilogy.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:38

Yeah. For context, how would you rate rise of Skywalker 4?

I'm gonna give it a 1, as I can think of some stuff I would rather watch, but there's not many things I would rather watch. Like, you know, like, there's not many things that I'm like, yeah, Rise of Skywalker is better than that.

Most things that I've seen, I would rather watch than Rise of Skywalker. Including the room. I gotta say, I would rather watch the room than watch Rise of Sky, though. Yeah. Because it makes me laugh.

Rise of Skywalker doesn't even make me laugh. It just makes me kind of sad, actually.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:11

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:11

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:12

But I mean, it really. It's not the worst movie ever. Like, it's so fun to watch.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:17

There are good parts. I guess it's just overall good parts.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:21

The choreography.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:22

So good.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:23

Yeah. I just think Duel of the Fates does everything better.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:27

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Speaking of things that it does better. So we're talking about Duel of the Fates.

How do we feel about, like, the handling the legacy characters, places, objects, stuff like that? Because I know we mentioned some of it. Some.

But, like, in this script, you know, you mentioned they're doing a little bit callback to, like, Old Republic and some of the legacy stuff. They, the holocrons and stuff from, like, the Clone wars is brought up, like, there and then. We even have, like, legacy characters.

Like, R2D2 dies in war, but then is brought back to life. Chewie finally gets his medal. Like, I don't know. For me, I'm going to say legacy characters and stuff are handled just supremely better.

Even the places like Coruscant. How this depicts Coruscant actually makes me feel better about the prequels. Like, I know that that's weird because I'm just.

I'm not a big prequels guy, but I'm reading this and I'm like, that's always been with a big disconnect for my, like, imagination, I guess, is like, you watch the prequels and Corazon, and, like, that's what Star wars is. It's like, high tech, nice society, whatever. And then all of a sudden, in the. In the, you know, original trilogy, you'll see any of that at all.

Having this reference of, like, we're seeing the places that used to exist in the prequel, and this is what the Empire did to it. I don't know. It really helps me a lot where I'm like, okay, I kind of feel like I understand Star wars as a whole better, actually.

TJ Blackwell: 00:34:40

Yeah. I think just Coruscant in general is, like, peak Star wars environment to me. Just because it's awesome.

The population's like 80 trillion or something. Like, there's no land left on this planet. The entire planet is a city. It's awesome. Super cool. There is one piece of land left.

It's the very top of the tallest mountain that was on Coruscant, and it has its own plaza, and you're not allowed to touch it.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:05

Yeah, I didn't know that. That's super.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:06

Yeah. In the Clone Wars, I think there's definitely in a Few books. It might have been in the Clone Wars.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:12

So I know there is a Force planet that's like the spring wheel or whatever in Clone wars, but do they reference this area of the Force, like, the plane that they visit in the. In this script? Is that referenced in Clone wars at all?

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:23

Oh, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:24

I thought so, but I couldn't more than reference.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:26

There you go.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:27

There, they go there. Okay, so this. That place was canon beforehand.

Because I know some complaints that I've read about this script are like, the Force shouldn't be a place you should be able to just go to. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's already canon. Like, that is just a thing.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:38

Yeah. Like, they meet the father and the daughter and son of the Force, Ahsoka. You know, the whole big thing.

But as far as legacy characters go, I think it is a better conclusion for every character from the original trilogy, bar none. C3PO even has, like. You know, we've watched a whole bunch of movies about C3PO denying his relationship with R2D2. He loves that little guy.

And then we get.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:07

He admits it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:08

R2D2 dies, and C3PO is like, I don't know what I'm gonna do without R2D2. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:13

Oh, also, there's a really six. Sorry scene where, like, BB8.

Whatever he's doing, like, the upload of the data, and it's like, oh, yeah, by the way, we're just gonna see all of the main Star wars events but through R2D2's eyes. And, like, I'm convinced if we would see that on scre screen, it would bring tears to, like, at least me and Will's eyes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:34

Yeah, yeah. It's really.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:36

It's good. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:37

The script is even, like, this is a great catharsis for Leia. And also us.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:42

Also us. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:43

Yeah. And I. I do like the script's less corny than Rise of Skywalker, but it's not. Not corny at all because it's definitely there.

But it's all, like, you know, screenplay notes and direction. Like, it's not in dialogue.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:58

And Star wars is always a little corny. I feel like it is.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:01

Yeah, man. I'm trying to remember what made me think that. I was like, oh, wow, that's corny. Oh, that was something about Hux.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:10

Hux, okay. Also, I like how Hux. Well, let's go ahead and go there. The characters that were established in the sequel trilogy.

I have a lot of complaints with Rise of Skywalker.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:20

It was right before he ends his own life in the screenplay is like he realizes he lost the Star Wars.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:30

Hilarious. That's fantastic.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:33

Yeah, hilarious.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:35

I mean, which also a little bit shows a little bit of like the darkness in the rebellion or like at least his perceived darkness because like he had to be thinking like, yeah, what they're going to do to me when they capture me. It's got to be worse than death.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:49

Yeah. Which also just to like put out the cool Star wars technology. The Empire is using a light guillotine.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:58

Yeah. That was sick.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:59

That was so Coruscant.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:01

That was so cool.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:02

To kill rebels.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:03

I mean, that part's less cool. But the fact that attack exists is cool. I would have liked.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:09

Which is just crazy. Yeah. We get a lot more out of the. The Knights of Ren.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:14

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:15

Like their characters.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:16

That was one of my big problem with the sequel trilogy as a whole is like in the comics and stuff, they really build up this whole. The Knights of Ren and then like, I think it's referenced in the movies, but I don't even remember seeing them. Really.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:25

They're there.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:25

Yeah. Like, I assume the Knights of Ren.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:27

Are just the ones that they find in the throne room with Snoke.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:29

Oh, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:30

So they're less cool.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:31

Yeah. I just completely ignored them.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:33

Or they call them like the Imperial Guard or something. That's who that was supposed to be.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:35

And Rageous completely kicks their ass. Is like taught her. So of course she. And it's been a long period of time. It's not like the last movie just ended here. We're picking it up.

By the way, the Empire is here now. No, it's been a long period of time. She's been training with literally Luke, who was completely one with the force.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:53

Yeah. And even the screen directions, like this is Rey, but not the Ray. We know. She's bigger, stronger.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:59

Yeah. Like, no, she actually changed her clothes for once in the three movies. Crazy.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:06

Yeah. And she made her own super cool lightsaber.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:08

Yeah.

That part also made a lot of sense because like I. I thought when you saw her staff in the beginning, I was like, oh, she's gonna get a double blade lightsaber. And just never happened.

But then here they're like, oh yeah, she took that staff she used to have and like, you know how like Luke's lightsaber was like destroyed actually she combined the two and now she has a double sided blue lightsaber. And it's cool. And I'm like, yeah, no, that is cool. I agree. Sometimes we just want cool looking lightsabers Yep. That's all.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:31

That's all. That's why visions did so well.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:34

True, but so like Rey, Finn, Rose, all of them. And we've talked a little bit already. But like, how do you think, how do you feel about the way that their stories progress in this telling?

Because it's a lot more focused on them. I feel like in this.

Whereas like, I think Rise of Skywalker focused more on the Emperor's back and we're doing like a big farewell to do to all Star Wars. This one's like, hey, we're just going to finish the story of the characters that the series is about.

TJ Blackwell: 00:40:00

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely, definitely better. Rose and Finn get a really nice conclusion. Poe gets. Well, I guess he doesn't really get a conclusion, but he does. And then Rey shows up.

So it's kind of like, well, I guess he'll find out eventually and then come back and hang out with her.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:20

I will say this one feels more open. Like there could have been more movies and I don't know if that's positive or not, but yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:40:26

At the very least more TV shows.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:29

You get a sense that Foe and Pen might be force sensitive perhaps, but they don't really finalize on that in this script. But the same thing happens with Hux. This is where I think it actually makes sense.

I like to juxtapose and I would like to think that the film would have done this really well. Huxt.

Yeah, Huxtapose him and Finn, as both of them are like, oh, I think I might be force sensitive and really want to be, you know, Sith Jedi, you know, whatever. And it just doesn't happen for them. Whereas then realizes his gift actually is inspiring other stormtroopers who have a story like his.

And story is actually more powerful than cool lightsabers and inspires a rebellion. Whereas Hux realizes everything he's been lusting after, the power of the Sith, all that stuff is out of his reach. He'll never win.

He'll never have it. And he's been collecting all these Jedi's lightsabers this whole time because he's obsessed with wanting that power and he's never going to get it.

So he takes one out that happens to be makes Windows lightsaber because that's the coolest looking one. If you're going to kill yourself, might as well do it on the coolest lightsaber you got.

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:31

Yeah, yeah, might as well. Yeah. And he, it is like he just keeps trying to use the Force and you Almost feel bad for him because who wasn't trying to do that as a kid?

Joshua Noel: 00:41:40

Yeah. And if you lived in this universe, of course you're going to.

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:44

Yeah, well. And that's so that tries it. He tries it when they're torturing Rose and Rose is like, what you doing?

Joshua Noel: 00:41:51

Which was just funny, actually. See, that's the kind of Cordy I love. But no, I. And like, that's part of what I loved about Last Jedi too.

Part of its message was, anyone can have the Force. And here they're capitalizing on it. You see people with maybe hints who maybe they will, maybe they won't.

And at the end, when you have Rey teaching the mop boy teaching, maybe Poe and Finn even, it's like, oh, yeah, the Force is open to everyone. And I don't know, I like that story a lot more because how do you defeat an Empire if the system just keeps perpetuating?

But in this version of the script, the system doesn't keep perpetuating. She learns you can use dark side and good side for good of the Force. Kind of like gray Jedi.

And is confirmed by Luke and Yoda and Obi Wan, like, yeah, actually, you're right. That is what we should have been doing. We were compressing our emotions when we shouldn't have been.

And it's like actually feels like they're wrapping up that story of how the Jedi messed up. And it's like, oh, now we have a real way forward. And also, yeah, maybe it's not about midichlorians.

Maybe it's about, like, everyone has access and they need a good teacher who's willing to let them fully embrace who they are, man, like, just messaging wise, it's just better and it's just way better.

And when Chewy's flying the X wing, one of my favorite things Poe says, that line that he says from Force Awakens where it's like, now that's one damn good pilot. Or, you know, whatever it was. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I need. I need more Chewy promotion in my.

TJ Blackwell: 00:43:22

Star wars chewing an X wing.

Joshua Noel: 00:43:24

Yeah, that's what we.

TJ Blackwell: 00:43:25

Such a cool scene, that whole siege of Coruscant. It's awesome. It's great.

Joshua Noel: 00:43:30

Yeah. So. So one of the things, you know, I've mentioned it, I want to.

I want to buckle down a little bit more into this, like, what is true balance of the Force.

And I'm gonna make probably a bad opinion argument where I agree with this script that, you know, it's our whole Self, whether it's good, you know, the negative stuff like anger and force lightning, and the positive stuff like healing and for some reason, mind tricks.

TJ Blackwell: 00:43:55

Rey uses force lightning to kill one of the Knights of Ren, which was so cool. Pretty awesome.

Joshua Noel: 00:43:59

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, she uses that. And then immediately she uses the mind trick to convince Poe not to follow her when she goes to the Force planet.

Because he was like, hey, you're going to die. Because she's. Again, another thing that I feel like Rise of Skywalker dropped the ball on. It was just like, oh, yeah.

No, they were sharing dreams because the emperor. That's why this film was like, yeah, no, they're going to keep sharing dreams.

She sees his dream where he's trying to get to the Force planet in his lust of power and she goes to stop him. And you're like, yeah, that. That just. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

He goes crazy in a lust for power, while also Force Ghost Luke is antagonizing him. And she's like, yeah, I should probably stop the new Emperor supreme from fully having access to the dark side.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:46

Yeah. And it's.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:47

That is part of your motivation.

TJ Blackwell: 00:44:49

Why I like that they reference the Old Republic a lot here because one of the things that they do in Knights of The Old Republic 2, which is the best Star wars game ever made, argue with a wall. Except maybe Nazi Old Republic one, you have what's called a Force link. And that's, you know, it's a video game.

So that's what they insinuate Your relationships are building on is these forced connections that you're making with people because you're Revan.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:15

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:15

And you're just immensely powerful in the Force. So you're connecting with these people involuntarily and they're compelled to follow you and do what you do and be more like you.

Because your connection to the Force and to them is so strong. And it is. Gets to the point where his connection with Kreia, Your connection with Kreia is so strong that you feel it when her arm gets cut off.

You feel it when she's in pain. And that's what Rey has. And that's what Rey develops with, you know, everybody throughout the course of this script and has always had it with Kylo.

They also learn Ray's last name. It's Salona or Solano.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:53

Yeah, that was cool. I felt like, unnecessary, but it was cool. Also, she's not the grandchild of the emperor for absolutely no reason. She really is just a person.

Because anyone has access to The Force. Hey, let's capitalize on the message. That's great. But I also really appreciate that when Kylo was dying, they didn't kiss. That was kind of cool.

Glad that didn't happen. Yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:16

She gets this stupid twice. Yeah, three times.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:18

Which makes way more sense. But. But. So back to the balance of the Force thing, though.

I know that George Lucas has said the point always was rebalance was when the good side wins. And I'm just going to disagree with George Lucas. I hate to do that because, like, it's his property that he started.

TJ Blackwell: 00:46:35

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:36

Here's my argument, though. What he's doing with the Force is he was. What's that word? Appropriating. He was appropriating some of the religion of Taoism.

That's why it's called the Force, because that's what the dao is. It's just translated as the Force in English. And again, this is his story. It's cool.

But if we're going to lean more into the source material, we're looking at the Force and, like, what's that origin? And we're going to be respectful of Taoism. That does mean you embrace your full self, all your emotions, the dark and the light side.

You do it for good. It's more about the motivation rather than are you mystically part of this side or that side, you know? So I.

That's where I'm like, I get where George is coming from. And I think you can make a really solid argument, like, this is his property. So what he says is the balance. That's the balance.

But I'm thinking, hey, we're moving past George Lucas in these films. We're moving to the next generation.

And part of what film and culture has done as a whole better is we've been more respectful of that stuff that we used to appropriate or kind of mock a little bit even. And I like Star wars doing the same thing. We're like, hey, let's just be genuine.

Like, hey, this is what the Force came from, from Taoism, and this is how Daoism treats this stuff. So let's treat it the same way.

TJ Blackwell: 00:47:44

I'm a fan.

I think most other Star wars properties at this point do kind of acknowledge that it's an actual true balance, just by the definition of the word balance.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:56

Also, the Gray Jedi exist and they're freaking cool. And if I remember right, in Legends, doesn't Luke do kind of the same thing? Yeah. So I'm like, Grandmaster Luke just makes sense.

So as a whole, you know, when we're doing these episodes, we're gonna talk about the type of literature, which is weird to do when we're reading a script for a film, but still. EJ curious, since this was never made into a film, we can actually do this a little bit more appropriately.

How do you think the format hindered or enriched the story for you? Do you think if you would have watched it as a movie instead or if it would have been a comic, it would have been different?

Are you glad you read it as a script?

TJ Blackwell: 00:48:34

Yeah. So I think when you're reading a book, you are depending on the description that the author gives, you're imagining that scene.

And most of the time, it's largely up to you what it looks like.

And reading it as a script allows you to kind of mold your thoughts into what it could have looked like because, you know, you can emulate the style of the director of the movie. So it makes it a lot easier to kind of put it into perspective of like, imagining what this actual movie would have looked like.

And I think it just gives you a very clear sense of what this could have looked like. And I like it. It benefits a lot from being a screenplay and not a novel.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:15

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:16

Because this is designed to be a movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:18

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I agree. And even as a comic, like, I kind of like being able to visualize it for myself.

Of course, I would have rather this film be made, but getting to visualize it for myself, reading through script was actually just really fun. So I'm glad I got to experience it in this format.

I'd be cool if they wanted to make a comic book or something of it at some point so we have more representation of this story. But I'm glad that I read this first.

I do want to mention also, since we mentioned people who were making the film, this script was written by Colin Trevorrow and Derek Connolly. Trevorrow was going to be the director of the film if it had been made, which it was not. So there's that. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm glad I read it this way before we start wrapping up.

So this year on our podcast, we've been doing Polarization as our annual theme and trying to find the good as our biggest, you know, series we've been doing each month.

Kind of want to ask you since we're doing a lot of comparison of Duel of the Fates and Rise of Skywalker in this episode, since, you know, Rise of Scholar Walker is what we got. Duel of Fates is what we could have got for Star Wars Episode 9.

If you had to pick the best thing and the worst thing about both scripts, what would you. What would you say? You want me to go first, since I put you on the spot?

TJ Blackwell: 00:52:13

I definitely think the best thing about the Duel of the Fates script is Kylo and Rey's final battle. That whole scene.

Joshua Noel: 00:52:23

Yeah. Sounds super sick.

TJ Blackwell: 00:52:26

I think that's way better. More thematically fitting for Star wars because it's a lot more similar to the final battles that we get in trilogy of Star Wars.

They're, you know, even when they are just straight action, awesome lightsaber fighting.

Even then when it was Obi Wan and Anakin, it's a lot more about what's going on inside and it's a lot more thematically relevant than actionably relevant. You know, it's not just to look cool. There's also a lot of deep motivations behind it and there's a lot of meaning in the battle.

I think that's done really well in Duel of Fades. It's much, much better than the final confrontation in Rise of Skywalker, in my opinion.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:08

Yeah. I agree.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:09

The worst part of Duel of the Fates is something.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:15

Yeah. I mean, that's probably.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:17

Maybe the brute troopers. The brute troopers really do kind of feel out of place and just not entirely necessary to, you know, just to be there.

And they're in there to emphasize that the first order is, you know, cruel and evil and fascist in there. Extra bad. They made bigger, meaner stormtroopers that look like Mandalorians for some reason, but they're also all chrome.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:40

Yeah. We also have just like way more reference to metal, the Mandalorian stuff in this script.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:46

Yeah. Which is. Which is interesting. But that did make me think back to Legacy characters.

Even the Millennium Falcon got an upgrade at the end of the Duel of Fate script.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:55

That's right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:57

Even the Falcon.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:58

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:59

Rise of Skywalker.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:07

I want to like the Jeopardy music.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:09

It's a cool ensemble.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:11

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:12

Seeing everyone show up at the end, you know, Wedge, Lando, like, that's really cool. That's a really, you know, it is a feel good moment.

And hearing Obi Wan and Yoda and Mace Windu and Anakin and Qui Gon and, you know, Aayla Secura, even. It's cool. Yeah, cool. It's pretty awesome. The worst part of Rise of Skywalker is probably the rest.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:34

Just every part of the movie that isn't that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:37

No, it's definitely just the emperor being back. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:41

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:41

Which.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:41

The very first sentence in the scroll, somehow the emperor is back.

TJ Blackwell: 00:54:45

Yeah. Like, I do Think that there's a way that that could be done? Well, because if you're familiar with his Sith lineage, it's plagius. Vitiate.

Well, it was Vitiate. Now, I guess it's according to Duel of Faith. It's war to room.

But their whole lineage is dedicated to manipulating life and preserving their own life. Which is, you know, also a trait.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:12

Of deep theological conversation. We could get into too. We won't, but we could.

TJ Blackwell: 00:55:17

But that's what their whole lineage is about. So I do think there is a way that you could have done it pretty easily where Sidious is still alive in some way. That is not what happened.

He was just back. Yeah, because cloned, which is lame.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:31

Correct. Okay, I'll start with Rise of Skywalker. Best and worse and worse.

I really do have a hard time finding the best because I really just did not care for most.

TJ Blackwell: 00:55:44

Oh, I take it back. Coolest part. Best part of Rise of Skywalker is in the giant wheat. One of the ships is named after Darth Revan.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:53

Ah, cool. Not what I was about to say. I'm glad you didn't steal it right last minute for no reason. Lando. Lando is the coolest part of Rise of Skywalker. Just.

That was my him being there. No, it's not.

TJ Blackwell: 00:56:05

It was.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:06

All right. The worst part of Rise of Skywalker, other than all of it. I'm really trying to think.

I think the worst part for me this is going to get at what part of why I like dual fates. The worst part for me is how Finn and Rose were just kind of shrugged off. And Luke, Finrose and Luke were all just shrugged off. Yeah.

The best part of Rises. I already did best part of Rise of Skywalker, didn't I?

TJ Blackwell: 00:56:29

Yep.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:30

Okay. Best part of Duel of Fates. Kylo Kylo Ren. Like the. The thing where like, he learns how to absorb power and that's right here. Why he gets so powerful?

What makes him the ultimate threat? Because, like, for this to be the end of a saga, there needs to be a reason why he's so powerful. Not just. It's the Emperor again.

No, like, actually he is the most powerful. He's way more powerful than Emperor because he just absorbed all this force from everything. He can't handle it. It's driving him crazy.

But like, hey, at least that makes sense. Like, cool. I'm here for it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:57:01

Yeah. And it is like as soon as he figures it out, as soon as he learns it, the first thing he does is absorb the life force of a 700 year old Sith master.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:09

Which is what I think is the worst part of Duel of Fates. That Sith master existing. Because, like, my brain has such a hard time with. Wait a minute, Sith. The rule of two. They all back treat.

How was Kylo the first one who decided, you know what? I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to get him.

TJ Blackwell: 00:57:24

No, no, they got you there.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:25

Oh, okay.

TJ Blackwell: 00:57:26

He says when Kylo gets there that he is not a Sith lord. Like, he. That's not a lot he associates with anymore. That's not him. He is vorte to room. He's not even vorte to room.

He says, I used to go by that name.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:39

You're right, man.

TJ Blackwell: 00:57:40

The worst part.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:42

Worst part is I was reading part of the script while I was at work and I had a tear in my eye when I read about R2D2. And I tried to say it was because of the onions, but I was cutting jalapeno, so no one believed.

TJ Blackwell: 00:57:54

Yeah, jalapeno juice in the eye.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:56

Yeah. Yeah, that's what happened. I was like, no, not R2. Like, if I was in the theater, I really think I would have been just. Just distraught. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:07

Especially for Finn to just like reach in there, grab his memory bank, give it a BD8.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:12

Just brutal, man.

Also, I even think, like, her being blinded and having like the blindfold and fighting, I feel like the way I imagined it being framed was like kind of a shout, shout out to Kanan. There's a lot of even references like Clone wars and rebel stuff that I'm like, also Darth Vader's castle.

Like, you still get Darth Vader and Emperor being represented in really cool ways without having to be like, they're back.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:36

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:36

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:38

Change Kylo's mask in a way cooler way. I wish there was concept art of the mask.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:45

I think there is, or there's concept art of him getting it put on or something.

TJ Blackwell: 00:58:50

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:50

But anyway, this was. This was a lot of fun to read. A lot of fun to just geek out on and imagine what if.

That being said, you know, I know a lot of people love Rise of Skywalker. A lot of people love the sequel trilogy. It's getting them into Star Wars. I like more people loving Star Wars.

I'm okay with Rise of Skywalker, even if I don't enjoy it. My wife loves shipping Kylo and Rey for some reason. I don't get it. But hey, it's cool for her. So, you know, we're not just trying to bash it.

But we do think Duel of Fate would be better and we really love the script and think you should read.

TJ Blackwell: 00:59:23

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:23

All right, let's wrap this up. As always, there will be a bonus question. Not as always, since this is part of our All Reading Counts series.

If you're on Patreon already or subscribed, you will get this for free. If not, you can go to our Patreon and purchase separately the answer to our bonus question.

And whatever money you give us, we will be sending to the public library in support of literacy. The bonus question will be for those who are interested.

If we could combine the scripts of Rise of Skywalker, Duel of Fates, just like pick our favorite bits and pieces to put together our own Ideal Episode 9. What would it be you want to hear that you're either go over to Patreon. I think it's a pretty. Pretty awesome bonus question actually.

Could be a whole episode, but it won't be. That being said, D.J. you know, we have to recommend something from a kind of literature other than the kind that the day was about.

So you got to recommend something for people to read that just specifically isn't a screenplay very.

TJ Blackwell: 01:00:20

That's hard.

Joshua Noel: 01:00:20

Yeah, man.

TJ Blackwell: 01:00:21

I pretty much only read screenplays. Man, that's rough. I. I don't want to Recommend Another like 40, 000 word series, everybody.

Joshua Noel: 01:00:33

I really ironically want to want to like recommend a dungeon crawler. Carl, just for Laura. But I've. I've never read it, so I feel like I can't do that.

TJ Blackwell: 01:00:42

I've heard a lot of good things.

Joshua Noel: 01:00:44

That's funny.

TJ Blackwell: 01:00:44

There are a lot of good things. I heard no bad things about it.

Joshua Noel: 01:00:47

Maybe our patrons will vote for that in August when we do our next all reading counts.

TJ Blackwell: 01:00:51

Yeah. Yeah. For me, I. Man, it's hard to recommend written media. I have one that I haven't already recommended.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:00

I have one earlier I mentioned the last thing I read was the manga of Kingdom Hearts 358 by 2 days. Not going to recommend that. I'm going to really specifically recommend the novella of Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories short novel.

Personally, obviously I think the game is the best thing to do because it's just fun to play the game. But if you're only after the story, I think the story is told better in the novella than it is in the manga or in the game.

The story wise, I think that was the best representation. March. Chain of Memories. It's a lot of fun.

TJ Blackwell: 01:01:31

Chain of Memories is fun though.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:32

It is. It's a lot of fun. Especially if you can get the original copy, not the remastered one I don't like. But yeah, dj, that helped you understand.

TJ Blackwell: 01:01:43

Brightest Day and Blackest Night. Green Lantern. They're just some of my favorite comic books ever. And they're super sick. They're so cool.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:51

That's fair.

TJ Blackwell: 01:01:52

They're so cool. It's just like, what if everyone was dead and also had a lantern ring?

Joshua Noel: 01:01:58

It does. I have so many comics on my list right now, especially with the movies coming up in July. Okay.

Anyway, guys, if you're on a laptop, please consider rating, reviewing our show on podchaser or Good Pods. That's gonna help our show gain recognition, make it easier to find on search engines like Google.

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Kind of why we do this, for people to listen also because we like to talk to each other, but that's not important. Also want to thank our supporters from Apple, Podcast, Captivate and Patreon. Today we're specifically shouting out, aaron Hardy. Aaron, you rot.

And I hope camp goes well.

Remember, if you'd like your own shout out like Aaron, you two can support our show for $3 a month on one of those three platforms, Apple, podcast, Captivate or Patreon. And if you want to hear more of our All Reading Counts episode, we did two this month, which is rare.

You can hear all of our All Reading accounts with the link down below in the show's description. Of course.

Again, please remember you can purchase our All Reading Accounts Merch, you can go to Patreon, buy this bonus question separately, and we take all that money to support our local libraries. We also want you to remember an extremely important thing. That's that we're all a chosen people. A geek, them, a priest.

TJ Blackwell: 01:03:29

Sa.