Unveiling the Complexities of Identity in 'What If . . . Marc Spector Was Host to Venom?'
The central theme of this episode is an examination of the novel "Marvel: What If . . . Marc Spector Was Host to Venom? (A Moon Knight & Venom Story)" by Mike Chen, which we dissect in light of its unique narrative structure and character development. We engage with the complexities of Marc Spector's psyche as he navigates the duality of being both the host to Venom and the Moon Knight, presenting an intriguing exploration of identity and the impact of lived experiences on character dynamics. We delve into the stylistic choices that contribute to this narrative, particularly the use of first and second-person perspectives that enhance the emotional resonance of Venom's voice within Marc's mind. Additionally, we discuss the broader implications of the story within the Marvel multiverse and its connections to themes of trust, self-awareness, and the psychological struggles inherent in Marc Spector's character. Ultimately, we invite our listeners to reflect on the multifaceted nature of storytelling and the importance of diverse literary forms, all while supporting local libraries through our merchandise and Patreon contributions.
The discourse surrounding Mike Chen's novel, "Marvel: What If . . . Marc Spector Was Host to Venom? (A Moon Knight & Venom Story)," deftly explores the intricate interplay of identity, agency, and the multifaceted nature of existence, particularly in the context of the titular character, Marc Spector. The dialogue initiates with an examination of the concept of 'all reading counts,' advocating for a broader understanding of literature that transcends traditional boundaries. The hosts, Joshua Noll and TJ Blackwell, delineate their respective experiences with various literary forms, setting the stage for a comprehensive analysis of Chen's narrative. The discussion subsequently delves into the narrative structure of the novel, characterized by its unique use of first and second-person perspectives, which effectively immerses the reader in a complex web of realities and identities. The juxtaposition of Spector's psychological struggles with the chaotic influence of Venom elevates the narrative into a profound exploration of selfhood, wherein the characters grapple with the ramifications of their choices and the nature of their existence. The hosts express a nuanced appreciation for the character development presented in the story, particularly how Spector's dissociative identity disorder serves as both a narrative device and a thematic exploration of trust and self-acceptance, thereby inviting readers to reflect on their own lived experiences and identities.
Takeaways:
- In this episode, we delve into the profound impact of our lived experiences on our identities, both physically and psychologically, emphasizing the intricate connection between personal history and character development.
- The discussion centers around Mike Chen's novel, 'Marvel: What If . . . Marc Spector Was Host to Venom?', exploring its unique narrative style that blends elements of both first and second-person perspectives.
- We highlight the importance of diverse literary forms, advocating for the recognition of comic books and graphic novels as valuable contributions to the literary canon, in alignment with our All Reading Counts initiative.
- The episode examines the complexities of mental health as portrayed through the character of Marc Spector, emphasizing the significance of understanding dissociative identity disorder in relation to the overarching themes of trust and self-awareness.
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Check out the rest of our 'All Reading Counts' series:
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Listen to all of our Marvel episodes:
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Check out other episodes with Joshua:
https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0
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Check out other episodes with TJ:
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Transcript
How do our lived experiences impact who we are physically, emotionally and spiritually?
Speaker A:Today we're here with another All Reading counts episode discussing the book.
Speaker A:What if Mark Septor was host to Venom by Mike Chen?
Speaker A:Maybe Chin?
Speaker A:Really excited to talk about this one.
Speaker A:It's going to be a lot of fun, especially for all of our Marvel nerds out there and for people who just like books, I guess.
Speaker A:I am Joshua Noll, one of your hosts.
Speaker A:Here with the host that means the most.
Speaker A:He means the most to all of us.
Speaker A:Once a day, you know, you read your Bible, you pray, and you always end your prayer with thank God for T.J.
Speaker A:tiberius 1 Blackwell.
Speaker A:How's it going?
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I am excited to talk about this one.
Speaker A:It's gonna be very unique piece of literature.
Speaker A:I'm not sure what type of literature it is.
Speaker A:That's pretty to be something we'll probably discuss later.
Speaker A:Before we do, we do like to ask everybody for these kind of episodes, what the last thing you read, what kind of literature was it?
Speaker A:You know, comic book, manga, novel, et cetera.
Speaker A:What was it?
Speaker B:One piece Sick?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Shangri La Frontier.
Speaker A:Last piece of literature I read was a comic book.
Speaker A:I was sitting on the toilet our good friend Will Rose's church and got a notification about Happy Ghostbusters day with the Ghostbusters Dead man's Chest.
Speaker A:And I was like, pirate Ghostbusters.
Speaker A:So I just read it right there like two days ago.
Speaker B:The library.
Speaker A:It was great.
Speaker B:So my dad calls the bathroom as the library.
Speaker A:Yeah, just, you know, sorry, it gets all in.
Speaker A:Speaking of the library, if you do donate to this episode, specifically buy any of our all reading counts merch or you can go to Patreon and buy the bonus question for this episode by itself and all of the funds we get for our all reading counts episodes do get donated to your local library.
Speaker A:Not your bathroom library, the other local library.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:If you're on.
Speaker A:If you're on a laptop, please consider reading reviewing our show on podchaser or goodpod.
Speaker A:It's gonna help our show gain recognition, make it easier to find in search engines like good Google.
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Speaker A:That's where most people listen to their podcast and it will help prioritize our show in those apps algorithms.
Speaker A:So thank you in advance for the free support.
Speaker A:That only took you like two seconds.
Speaker A:That was so kind of you.
Speaker A:We appreciate it.
Speaker A:We also appreciate Daniel Sigman.
Speaker A:Daniel, you're awesome.
Speaker A:Man.
Speaker A:We like to shout out one of our sponsors from Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon every episode.
Speaker A:And today we're shouting out Daniel.
Speaker A:If you want your own shout out like Daniel.
Speaker A:Remember, you too can support our show for $3 a month on one of those three platforms.
Speaker A:Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon.
Speaker A:Again, this is part of our All Reading Counts series, so if you want to hear other episodes we did talking about other pieces of literature, click that link down below in the show notes, go to our merch store.
Speaker A:Buy an All Reading Counts hoodie.
Speaker A:They're nice, comfy and warm.
Speaker A:It's summer.
Speaker A:People aren't thinking about warmth unless you're me, but it's fine because my house is cold.
Speaker A:For now, though, we're gonna jump into the main, main episode and what we're discussing today, I thought was pretty unique book.
Speaker A:Definitely if Mark Septor was host to Venom by Mike Chen.
Speaker A:Do you know anything about Mike Chen, by the way?
Speaker B:I know, like, I've definitely heard the name before.
Speaker B:It's not a name that, like, pops out to me, but he's.
Speaker B:He's like a reputable author.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I didn't know him before I read this, but he's wrote a few different sci fi things.
Speaker A:He's wrote for one of the Star wars books.
Speaker A:Things.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker B:That's probably.
Speaker A:But for this book specifically, you can definitely tell he's a sci fi writer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, I get that.
Speaker A:Before we get into the meat of it, though, we want to discuss what we mean by all reading counts and why it's important.
Speaker A:Tj, do you want to maybe jump in a little bit with what does the phrase all reading count make you think of?
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:It makes me personally think of, you know, reading manga and comic books and people saying, well, that does not count as reading.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we're overcoming that stereotype somehow.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:Yeah, for me, it has to do with that.
Speaker A:It has to do with also the benefits of reading and acknowledging that these same benefits exist across some of these different platforms and formats that our literature might take.
Speaker A:Which is why I'm a big advocate for counting audiobooks, even though other hosts might agree, disagree.
Speaker A:I mean, some people say it's a bad opinion.
Speaker A:I don't think this counts as a bad opinion.
Speaker A:This is, you know, different thing technically, by our current definition of reading.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:I think we need to change that definition because there are a lot of benefits to reading that still exist with audiobooks.
Speaker A:And a lot of our disabled community is the only way that they can read.
Speaker A:So I think it's important that we actually do amend our definition.
Speaker A:Perhaps.
Speaker A:But some of the benefits cognitive functions helps with that.
Speaker A:It helps with your vocabulary, helps with mental health, stress reduction helps you have a better memory, helps with concentration and focus.
Speaker A:Something I need help with just general knowledge base relaxation and even some studies show that reading improves the longevity of your life.
Speaker A:You want to live more, read more.
Speaker A:If you don't want to live more, read more.
Speaker A:Edgar Allan Poe, maybe.
Speaker B:So I think I figured out where I do recognize Mike Chen from.
Speaker B:None of his books.
Speaker B:I haven't read any of his books.
Speaker B:However, he did also previously cover the NHL for a while.
Speaker B:He was a journalist for the NHL for a little while.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:That is such a weird connection.
Speaker A:Are you Mike Ginn?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Okay, just making sure.
Speaker A:So this book we mentioned, it's unique.
Speaker A:Tj, maybe you could explain what makes the type of book this is so weird or unique.
Speaker A:And how would you even classify this?
Speaker A:Because like, I don't think it's a novel, but like is.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's just a novel.
Speaker A:It's just told in like first and second person.
Speaker B:It's an interesting style.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Could you.
Speaker B:It's an interesting style.
Speaker B:It's just a novel.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Explain some of the.
Speaker A:The stylistic stuff that we're hinting at here.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker B:So if you're familiar with the character Moon Knight, which most people are at this point, which is pretty cool.
Speaker B:Didn't used to be like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, pretty cool.
Speaker B:If you are a fan of the show, you'll remember season one coming out.
Speaker B:You know, Mark blacks out, wakes up, something has happened and you're confused.
Speaker B:You're like, sure, whatever, man.
Speaker B:I'm here for the ride.
Speaker B:Mike Chan is not immune to the multiverse madness that has afflicted the media world.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I mean, this is part of the overarching storyline that's all multi verse.
Speaker A:I like how it's done with this though.
Speaker B:So Moon Knight himself has social identity disorder.
Speaker B:That's key to the character.
Speaker B:Most people would say Marc Spector.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Jake Longley.
Speaker B:And I definitely remember Steven Grant.
Speaker B:Steven Grant.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker B:Steven Grant.
Speaker B:They all possess the same body.
Speaker B:And that body is also possessed by Khonshu.
Speaker B:On and off.
Speaker B:It's very inconsistent whether Khonshu's there or real or not.
Speaker B:But in this book he's, you know, he's there.
Speaker A:One of my favorite.
Speaker A:Allegedly the only personalities in his head are specifically Spider Man, Wolverine and Captain America.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you know, that kind of just gets used A lot as a figurative device in Moon Knight stories is the voices in his head.
Speaker B:And this one takes it one step further.
Speaker B:So normally we're dealing with three or four people when it comes to Moon Knight.
Speaker B:That being Mark, Steven, Jake, and Khonshu.
Speaker B:This book adds in a whole other moon night that is not yet Moon Knight.
Speaker A:So another reality set of, you know.
Speaker B:Stephen, Jake, and Mark, and also Venom.
Speaker A:Now, could you break into the Eminem song, Venom?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Patron only.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's really why it gets confusing, because you're jumping between all of the, you know, perspectives that we have here.
Speaker B:There's a little shifting.
Speaker B:Venom takes over, like the Mark we're following.
Speaker B:Then Jake and Steven get shunted off to the other body.
Speaker B:It's kind of a lot.
Speaker B:Also, not only are we dealing with jumping between all these perspectives, we are also getting the perspective of America Chavez, who is, like, the act.
Speaker B:The real main protagonist of the what if series.
Speaker B:So it's a lot.
Speaker B:It's quite a bit going on here.
Speaker B:Also, the Whisperer, we get a couple chapters on.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker A:And I like the reveal of who he was at the end, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Spoiler alert.
Speaker B:It's doom.
Speaker A:I wasn't sure if we were gonna say it or not.
Speaker A:I was in between.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Spoiler.
Speaker B:Don't watch this if you haven't read the book.
Speaker B:And hopefully you skipped ahead a little while when you heard me say spoiler.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But no, I really enjoyed that, even though I saw it coming about halfway through the book, I think.
Speaker A:Still cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's always cool.
Speaker A:Gotta love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Put him in anything.
Speaker A:So true.
Speaker B:So if he.
Speaker B:If he had showed up at, like, the end of the Justice League movie, I would have been happy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it's one of those, though, where, like, you're doing a multiversal threat.
Speaker A:Like, it almost has to be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Yeah, I thought it was interesting.
Speaker A:One of the other things that.
Speaker A:That stands out for us already that we talked about before the episode, but I'm feel our listeners in.
Speaker A:I went through it as an audiobook because all reading counts, and TJ did not.
Speaker A:And it seems as though that has drastically impacted our ability to enjoy this particular piece because the audiobook does all the different voices, and Venom's voice is so unique that you're like, okay, this one's Venom.
Speaker A:And even Steven Grant and Steven Grant, the Multiverse versions, their voices are different because the Steven Grant from the other Multiverse, a little British, and you're like, oh, okay.
Speaker A:Makes it a lot easier to keep up with all the different voices because it's primarily told in like, first or second person.
Speaker A:Mostly second person is Venom, but because Venom's weird.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's reading the book, I guess.
Speaker B:Physically, I can't really.
Speaker B:I read it on my phone.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, it counts with eyeballs.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker B:It just doesn't feel like physically reading, you know, it feels like I'm implying that I read the hardcover copy of the book.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:Either way, it was still really hard to keep up.
Speaker B:It was difficult to keep track of sometimes, and it's extremely difficult to do.
Speaker B:I've seen a couple of authors try it.
Speaker B:Actually, one I thought did it really well is Brandon Sanderson in the Way of Kings, which I'm sure is shocking to everybody that Brandon Sanderson is good at writing.
Speaker B:I definitely think it's something.
Speaker B:It could have made a more interesting stylistic choice here.
Speaker B:The only differentiation we get in the book is when Khonshu speaks.
Speaker B:It's italicized.
Speaker B:Kind of like reading a non color, like, print of the Bible, which is a hilarious comparison.
Speaker B:But that helps.
Speaker B:It helps you identify one point of view.
Speaker B:Contras, which is, you know, important.
Speaker B:But if, you know, they could have done something font wise.
Speaker B:Font size wise.
Speaker B:Something.
Speaker B:Anything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Needed a letter.
Speaker B:Yeah, anything to make it a little bit easier to keep track of.
Speaker B:Or even if you had given them, like, typing quirks.
Speaker B:You know what typing quirks are, Josh, you might be too old for that.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm a loser.
Speaker B:But if you just made each, you know, specific character have, like, a different way of speaking and showing, that would have been awesome.
Speaker B:Would have made it a lot easier.
Speaker A:So basically, I think it's safe to say we recommend, if you're gonna read it, doing it as the audiobook so you can actually keep up what's going on.
Speaker B:Definitely use the audiobook.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So that bit out of the way you mentioned, there's different universes and stuff.
Speaker A:I don't think either of the universes, like 616, the main Marvel universe.
Speaker A:But do you think that the multiversal impact is still relevant to anything else in the Marvel world, or is it just kind of its own story?
Speaker B:No, I feel like, because it is what if, you know, the point of it is that it won't conflict with, like, the Main Continuity 616.
Speaker B:So I think they're staying away from that.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:I'm not sure who's in charge, like, the direction of the what if series.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was curious about that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't remember if I mentioned this on the podcast just beforehand, but I didn't know this was like a connected series.
Speaker A:I thought it was just kind of one offs.
Speaker A:But, yeah, as a series, America Chavez is clearly the main character.
Speaker A:There is an overarching narrative that each one of these are telling.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:With the reveal, again, spoiler alert of Doom at the.
Speaker A:At the end, knowing that the MCU is about to do Doomsday, I am kind of like, maybe.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Maybe at least Doom will be connected.
Speaker A:The rest might not be, but this.
Speaker B:Is like a small side project for Doom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's like, let me stop and do a book series real quick on my way to the movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's also self aware now.
Speaker A:He got that from Deadpool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:No, but spoiler over.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was wild.
Speaker A:The different multiverse stuff.
Speaker A:Even though it's not connected, it does definitely feel like it assumes the reader knows a whole lot about a lot of these characters.
Speaker A:Like, it assumes you know everything about Venom.
Speaker A:With Eddie Brock, it assumes you know Moon Knight's whole life history.
Speaker A:His love interest, who Frenchie is like, it assumes you're going into this with a lot of Marvel knowledge ahead of time.
Speaker A:America Chavez, you're just supposed to know.
Speaker B:Who that is, which is fair, I think.
Speaker B:And this is.
Speaker B:Yeah, once again, the third book in the series.
Speaker B:The other books don't contain Moon Knight or Venom, but this is the third book in the series.
Speaker B:So if you're reading this, you're either into the series or you are familiar with the characters.
Speaker B:I do feel like it might be a little bit of a Venom trap.
Speaker B:Big Venom fan picks this up, they're gonna be really confused.
Speaker B:Venom fans, the ones I know don't like to read much other content.
Speaker A:That's funny.
Speaker A:What's funny is, like, I don't typically pick up Venom stuff because of the Venom trap, because so many times he just gets thrown on stuff so that you buy it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like the Avengers.
Speaker A:This might be a bad take.
Speaker A:I don't know if this is a bad opinion or not.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The comic Avengers, Venom bomb.
Speaker A:Visually stunning story.
Speaker A:Was stupid.
Speaker A:Didn't care for it.
Speaker A:Felt like they were like, I know how we can get people to buy more comics.
Speaker A:Venom.
Speaker B:That is true.
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker B:I will do it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:To be fair, that is part of why I loved Web of Shadows.
Speaker A:You just got Venom versions of everything.
Speaker A:Like that Video game was great.
Speaker A:Venom, Wolverine.
Speaker B:Sick Web of Shadows.
Speaker B:A horribly underrated game.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it's cuz the narrative is so painful.
Speaker B:Don't matter.
Speaker A:But man, everything else about it's great games.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:That's all a game needs to be.
Speaker A:Sometimes we should do well Shadows.
Speaker B:But that does bring me to something that, like, really disappointed me about this book because I heard, you know what?
Speaker B:If Marc Spector was the host of Venom, it'd be awesome.
Speaker B:I want to see what Moon Knight Venom is like.
Speaker B:It doesn't really happen.
Speaker B:It happens a little bit, but it's.
Speaker A:Not like half the book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it's not like.
Speaker B:It's just not what I was expecting.
Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker A:I mean, it's a huge portion of the book of Mark Septor and Venom having conversations and working through how to achieve their goal.
Speaker B:You know, he's not doing Venom stuff.
Speaker A:Oh, oh, okay.
Speaker A:So you meant like.
Speaker A:Because a lot of people are probably seeing this going, Mark Septer is already incredibly violent.
Speaker A:And then we have Mark's Venom.
Speaker A:So it's like it's going to be a bloody mayhem.
Speaker A:And it's not.
Speaker A:It's really Venom relying on Mark Septor to solve Spectre.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:To solve a mystery so that he can find.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Headphones to.
Speaker B:It's a lot more.
Speaker B:A lot more noir than I was expecting it to be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Feels a lot like this could have been a daredevil story.
Speaker A:It's absolutely very noir.
Speaker A:That's a good point.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's not what I was expecting.
Speaker B:I was expecting like, Venom Venomized Moon Knight.
Speaker B:Things are gonna get crazy.
Speaker B:He's gonna kill a whole bunch of people.
Speaker B:See, no, he's not that.
Speaker A:That's funny.
Speaker A:So you got kind of let down from that expectation.
Speaker A:One of the expectations I went into that I actually was pleasantly surprised by.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I thought it was gonna be a lot of.
Speaker A:It's Venom and Moon Knight, but really we're gonna be seeing.
Speaker A:What's the Venom?
Speaker A:Gold Venom God called is just void.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was expecting just to see Noel vs Khonshu just disguised as Mark Septor hosting Venom.
Speaker B:That would have been cool.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:It would have been cool.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:I was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I was happy that we actually got a lot of character in this.
Speaker A:You get really deep into the character of Mark.
Speaker B:It definitely is.
Speaker B:Like, if you're a fan of like, the introspective sides of Venom, they come out a lot more in like, you know, the second third Venom movies.
Speaker B:You're gonna like this book a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, okay.
Speaker A:We mentioned they pretty much have to know Going in who these characters are, just so people know, what.
Speaker A:What is some of your history with Moon Knight?
Speaker A:And then we'll get to Venom and America Chavez, too.
Speaker B:But, yeah, America Chavez.
Speaker B:Basically none.
Speaker B:Venom.
Speaker B:I am 26 years old.
Speaker B:I've known Venom my whole life.
Speaker B:Good friends, seems fair to say.
Speaker B:I played Ultimate Spider Man a lot when I was young on the.
Speaker B:On the Xbox.
Speaker B:He was playable.
Speaker B:Pretty sweet.
Speaker B:Moon Knight I was not familiar with until I played Marvel Ultimate Alliance.
Speaker B:And Moon Knight is an unlockable character, and I thought he was awesome.
Speaker B:So I would always just play as Moon Knight and Ghost Rider.
Speaker B:Two other people are, well, Moonlight, Ghost Rider, Blade, and then one other person I didn't really care about.
Speaker A:So you were doing the Midnight Suns, just not knowing it was the midnight sun?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Had no clue.
Speaker A:Hilarious.
Speaker B:No clue.
Speaker B:But Moon Knights always been super awesome to me.
Speaker B:You know, it was great for the show to come out.
Speaker B:Super dope.
Speaker B:Marvel Rivals came out.
Speaker B:Moon Knight was in that.
Speaker B:That was, like, best day of my life.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was awesome.
Speaker B:Oh, everyone thought he was really, really bad for the first two days of the game.
Speaker B:Everybody was wrong.
Speaker B:That was even cooler.
Speaker B:Moon Knight was really, really good for a few months.
Speaker A:God, that's great.
Speaker B:Now he's okay, which I can live with.
Speaker A:I mean, it makes more sense for him to be okay.
Speaker A:Realistically, for most of Moon Knight history, especially in comics, like, he mostly has not had an actual God on his side.
Speaker A:It was mostly of a.
Speaker A:Is there a God?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:That wasn't until more recently when they were like, wait a minute, we need to put them in TV shows and stuff.
Speaker A:Would be cooler if they just had God powers the whole time.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's definitely more common now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, yeah, my first run in, ironically, was because I went to the public library as a kid.
Speaker A:My dad went to work.
Speaker A:I went to the public library.
Speaker A:I knew the graphic novel section was.
Speaker A:And for some reason, they had in the kids section, the Mike Benson run of Moon Knight picked it up.
Speaker A:And within, like, two pages, Moon Knight is literally ripping someone's spine out to use as a weapon.
Speaker A:And I was like, man, as a young adult male who hasn't learned anything about the world, And I'm like, this is just.
Speaker A:This is great.
Speaker A:Just pure violence.
Speaker A:And then the violence drew me in, and Mike Benson's writing ends up making me actually care about the characters.
Speaker A:I feel like the actual set of who Moon Knight is, his different personalities and his love life seems to really heavily rely on, like, the more modern Moon Knight.
Speaker A:A lot of like, his power set stuff seems to revolve more around that Moon Knight TV show, like how it's described in this book.
Speaker A:But his actual character seems like it's way more rooted into the Mike Benson run and some of the story stuff that they reference.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, so this is just Mike Benson's moon Knight, but with the TV show powers, I guess.
Speaker B:I like the TV show powers.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It is really fun.
Speaker A:It's the only way you can get a Kaiju battle.
Speaker A:Moon Knight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When Moon Knight is powerful, everyone's having a good time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:My opinion.
Speaker A:I mean, except for literally anyone who pisses them off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But that's not me.
Speaker B:True.
Speaker A:I guess if he's Steven Grant, you might be fine.
Speaker A:If you piss off Steven Grant.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's probably not a huge deal.
Speaker B:No, he'll apologize.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Weirdly enough, I don't have a huge history with Venom other than the one comic.
Speaker A:Couple comics I mentioned, Web of Shadows.
Speaker A:He was in the animated series.
Speaker A:For the most part.
Speaker A:I kind of avoided Venom stuff because I was just like, this feels like we're just doing it as a lore.
Speaker A:There have been a couple times where I've seen Venom that actually did interest me because you see where it's like his story for the Thunderbolts comics and his story for the Civil War was actually really interesting.
Speaker A:Learning about him through some of the Thor comics with Knoll and the different gods and the Blade tie in with.
Speaker A:Is that the Black Knight that I'm talking about as the Blade tie in with him?
Speaker A:The lore is all kind of connected.
Speaker B:Oh, you mean like Blade Blade?
Speaker A:No, not blade.
Speaker B:You mean the knife, like the necrosword?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker A:All that stuff I thought was really interesting.
Speaker A:The alien bits, I'm like, that's cool.
Speaker A:But then so many of the times when I had him content, it's just gratuitous violence for gratuitous violence sake.
Speaker A:Which is why I originally liked Moon Knight.
Speaker A:I just don't know what it is.
Speaker A:Like, a lot of times I pick up the story and I'm like, I don't.
Speaker A:I don't get the story.
Speaker A:Like, it just doesn't click.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I feel like a lot of history with Venom.
Speaker B:Venom suffered a little bit from.
Speaker B:From that phenomenon where it's just everyone, you know, growing up who's a big Venom fan is just not someone.
Speaker B:You like that too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But America Chavez, I've disliked her almost in every single comic book I've read with her.
Speaker A:Really liked her Character in Doctor Strange, Multiverse of Madness, thought she was great, and I actually liked her in this book a lot, so that's interesting.
Speaker A:That was fun.
Speaker A:That was kind of cool.
Speaker A:I think just in the comics, the way she's written, it's like the comic book writers are trying too hard to make her sound young.
Speaker A:And that just bothers me.
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't like this terminology.
Speaker A:Quit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So that's kind of our history with it.
Speaker A:We'll get to that.
Speaker A:To that now, because T.J.
Speaker A:is going to give us an excellent expert summarization of the story of this book.
Speaker A:Yeah, can't.
Speaker B:I think if I had, like, listened to the audiobook, I probably could.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I'm going to attempt, basically, Marc Spector and friends leaving place.
Speaker A:Just place.
Speaker A:While they're leaving, they see a shadowy thing, a police officer come to conflict, and then they end up face to face with another Marc Spector.
Speaker A:Other Marc Spector is like, hey, I'm your friend Khonshu.
Speaker A:In original, Marc Spector's head keeps saying, hey, don't trust this guy.
Speaker A:Let's run away.
Speaker A:They end up making the distinction as the Marc Spector in the original world that the story starts in as Mark and the other one is just called Spectre.
Speaker A:So ends up Spectre is deceiving them because he is hosting Venom through conflict.
Speaker A:Venom ends up going to Mark, and Khonshu leaves Mark's body to go to Spectre because he knows what Venom is.
Speaker A:For those who don't know, Venom isn't just like a symbiote who takes over and gives you cool superpowers.
Speaker A:He also manipulates your brain and actually changes you, which is what a symbiote does.
Speaker A:So that's part of why Khonshu was getting the hell out of Dodge, goes to Spectre's body.
Speaker A:Spector, it turns out, is dying, so Khonshu's able to keep him alive.
Speaker A:The Marc Spector in Spectre, his personality is gone for some reason.
Speaker A:So it ends up with two different bodies, one hosting alternate version of Steven Grant.
Speaker A:Is it Jake Longwood?
Speaker A:That's not right.
Speaker A:Longley and Khonshu and then the original body of Mark having just Venom and Mark.
Speaker B:Yeah, which is really funny because Mark is, like, super chill now.
Speaker B:There's only one voice in his head.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I do think if they would have not had the other personalities fall off for different reasons, it would have been too much.
Speaker A:Even in the audiobook, I just don't think he could have kept up with it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was yeah, Exhausting.
Speaker A:Big psychological thriller and heavy on the psychological part.
Speaker A:Turns out the reason that Venom hosting any Mark's body and looking for this Mark, all this stuff, he's part of the hive mind.
Speaker A:That's what the alien is.
Speaker A:Hive mind is being threatened by something called the Whisperer, who is inside Venom's head.
Speaker A:So then you have Venom having the Whisperer in his head, Venom being in Mark's head.
Speaker A:And then Mark has other personalities that he can't have access to right now.
Speaker A:So one reality has Mark, Venom, the Whisperer.
Speaker A:The other reality has Khonshu, Jake, Steven.
Speaker A:Through a long series of things, Mark ends up understanding Venom's point of view and that the all of reality is in danger if they don't get.
Speaker A:I forget what the thing's called.
Speaker A:My brain just calls it the Headphones.
Speaker B:The Psiphon.
Speaker A:The Psiphon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they go on this whole mystery detective noir kind of story looking for the Psiphonic.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're both kind of chasing after it.
Speaker A:I won't get into the details.
Speaker A:Mark's old love interest gets involved, does some manipulation with both of them on request of Mark, so that the version of him that doesn't have Venom in his head, as well as his friends, can basically alter things so that Venom and the Whisperer, primarily the Whisperer, doesn't prevail victorious.
Speaker A:Then you have the classic part three giant battle.
Speaker A:The Whisperer ends up showing up fully masked.
Speaker A:And then you have a Venom symbiote.
Speaker A:Two Mark bodies, several personalities.
Speaker A:Konshu powering things at random times.
Speaker A:It's revealed.
Speaker A:Antiman.
Speaker A:That word.
Speaker A:Antimanium.
Speaker A:That's not right.
Speaker B:Adamantium.
Speaker A:Thank you, Adamantium.
Speaker A:For some reason, Venom is weak to them.
Speaker A:Don't remember that ever being part of the lore, but.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it emits a really uncomfortable frequency for him.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I thought it was Vibranium, though.
Speaker A:Yeah, me too.
Speaker A:It was weird.
Speaker A:But anyway, point being, they prevail against the Whisper.
Speaker A:America Chavez, the whole time, keeps.
Speaker A:You know, you keep getting in her head.
Speaker A:Her part's basically just, I'm ready to jump in if this hat.
Speaker A:What I think is gonna happen happens.
Speaker A:It doesn't.
Speaker A:But at the end, when she realizes the Whisperer is Doom, it kind of ends with her going, oh, I know where he's going next to the Phoenix.
Speaker A:And then she punches a hole in reality because that's America Chavez's power ability is punching holes through reality so that she can show up there and be part of the final book giant conflict thing.
Speaker A:That's gonna Happen there.
Speaker A:One of the cool parts, too, is because Mark has different personalities.
Speaker A:Even though Venom's controlling him, Venom doesn't have access to the other personalities, Steven or whatever.
Speaker A:So Mark's disability, in a way, helps him put some things on guard or to fight against Venom's voice in his head, which is a really unique perspective on the story, any story with Venom, because Venom's whole thing is controlling you.
Speaker A:But Mark is so used to having all their voices in his head and dealing with this that he has built up different defenses mentally than normal humans would have, which plays a really fun part of the story.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's just like, this is awesome.
Speaker B:This is what normal people are like.
Speaker B:Just one voice in your head, One extra voice in your head.
Speaker A:This is great.
Speaker B:Super chill.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Fun times.
Speaker A:Any other, like, main details that I left out?
Speaker A:You think people need to know about.
Speaker B:The Siphon?
Speaker B:What it does is you put it on, hook it up to a really big power source, and it combines you with every variant of yourself, makes you super powerful.
Speaker B:That's why it's important.
Speaker B:That's why people want it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's how Moon Knight had to fight the Moon Shade in other comics.
Speaker A:So it's not unheard of in Marvel.
Speaker A:Yeah, Just very infrequently used because it involves creative stories that are really hard for most people to write, I think.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker A:I kind of liked this whole.
Speaker A:At first, Venom is like, I'm just using this body.
Speaker A:I really don't give a F about you.
Speaker A:To then realizing, yeah, this guy has different personalities.
Speaker A:He's holding back stuff from me, and he ends up having to kind of reveal to Mark, here's why.
Speaker A:Here is my motivation for wanting the Siphon, and kind of has to win Mark over instead of just controlling him.
Speaker A:And then Mark, I don't know, it gets really weird.
Speaker A:Also, one of the fun things to me, why I enjoyed this as an audiobook as opposed to, like, a comic or something, it makes Venom a lot scarier because you can actually see how what Venom does is he's controlling you and he's, like, talking second person.
Speaker A:Now you pick this up.
Speaker A:I feel you wanting to push back, but you actually like this.
Speaker A:And, like, he's like, second person describing what you're doing and also kind of telling you how you're going to feel.
Speaker A:And that's how Venom slowly kind of merges with the host.
Speaker A:And you're like, oh, yeah.
Speaker A:The whole idea of a Venom symbiote is way more terrifying than I typically think about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's scary.
Speaker B:He's Venom.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You imagine carnage.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that.
Speaker A:That's actually terrifying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So before we get to the other stuff, 0 to 10, how.
Speaker A:How are you ranking this particular story, TJ?
Speaker B:No, it's like a 6.
Speaker A:Now, are you ranking the story or the book that you read?
Speaker B:You know, like, that I read is the story.
Speaker A:Yeah, but you rate the story itself or your experience reading it.
Speaker B:I guess that's the same.
Speaker A:Well, because I can actually see where.
Speaker A:If I did both, which I have not, I can see where I might give it a lower rating reading it as an ebook as opposed to as an audiobook.
Speaker A:I would want to give it a pretty high rating because it was a lot of fun.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker B:But I did only read the book, the ebook.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I also was misled by the title.
Speaker B:I wanted to see him do cool Venom stuff as Moon Knight.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I mean, it was.
Speaker A:What if Mark's a vector hosted villain?
Speaker B:It was that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In the way that you thought, just not.
Speaker B:You know, both of these characters are historically known for absurd, gratuitous amounts of violence.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker B:It wasn't there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it also is post Venom with Eddie Brock.
Speaker A:So he even says a few times where he's like, eddie would want me not to kill things.
Speaker A:And I kind of learned that I shouldn't kill innocent lives.
Speaker A:And it is also post Mark Specter finally seeing therapist and call me.
Speaker A:So it is definitely milder versions of most of them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I feel like we're.
Speaker B:We're losing out on a version of Marc Spector that is possessed by, like, freshly on Earth Venom symbiote.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you want Venom symbiote getting Marc Spector, like, early Mark Spector during the Mike Benson run when he's ripping spines out already.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Venom before Eddie Brock.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Venom Unadjusted Venom.
Speaker B:Extremely unadjusted Marc Spector.
Speaker B:They were the Moon Knight Venom collaboration.
Speaker B:I want to see.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's actually one of the things that I really didn't understand about the book because Venom even mentions that he's like, I think I would really like Jake.
Speaker A:I'm like, why wouldn't you just shut Mark Spector out?
Speaker B:Super fun.
Speaker B:That is super funny.
Speaker B:That's hilarious.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was great.
Speaker B:That's the kind of humor you can only write in this scenario.
Speaker B:And that's hilarious.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think I would like Jake.
Speaker B:How do you know that?
Speaker A:But what was it?
Speaker A:The audiobook, reading it, all the different voices.
Speaker A:It was Done so well.
Speaker A:Whoever narrated was fantastic.
Speaker A:I'd probably give it an 8 out of 10.
Speaker A:I liked it a lot.
Speaker A:I definitely am gonna read the rest.
Speaker A:I want to know what happens.
Speaker A:Super intrigued.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's definitely more of a mystery than anything.
Speaker A:I don't read a ton of mystery, but having read it, there was never a point that I, like, wanted to stop reading it and start listening to podcasts and ignoring it.
Speaker A:And, like, it wasn't like a.
Speaker A:I had to make myself read this.
Speaker A:You know, I was like.
Speaker A:I was enjoying it when I got in the car.
Speaker A:I was like, I know what I want to do.
Speaker A:I want to finish this book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I will say I just want to make it known that six out of 10 means I did still want to finish the book.
Speaker B:I will give something a zero if it deserves it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We've go to, like, the.
Speaker A:Some of the Disney three cab heroes and different stuff that we rated.
Speaker A:We've given bad ratings, and I love the three cat mirrors, but I still objectively know that that's a bad movie.
Speaker A:I think the story was really good.
Speaker A:It just wasn't, like, the best.
Speaker A:It definitely could have been more interesting, I think, if it wouldn't have been multiverse, if it would have literally just been one universe that happens not to be the main universe.
Speaker A:It could have been more fun.
Speaker A:I don't know if the story would have been better, but since they're making it part of a series, I understand why they did it that way, and maybe it pays off.
Speaker A:You know, the last book isn't out yet.
Speaker A:I might read that and be like, man, yeah.
Speaker A:Everything else doing it this way.
Speaker A:So America Chavez could do insert here or so that the final battle against Doom is both versions of this Moon Knight, that other Loki.
Speaker A:You know, maybe they all come together with America Chavez and just beat the crap out of Doom.
Speaker A:And I'm like, that was worth it.
Speaker A:Do it.
Speaker B:They all come together and they lose.
Speaker A:That would also be worth it.
Speaker A:And then he shows up in the MCU next.
Speaker A:It's the same Doom.
Speaker B:That would be great, actually.
Speaker A:I would love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:But so that put aside, we kind of already talked about the format of literature.
Speaker A:I want to get some of the deeper thoughts in here because you kind of see where Mark's ability to have these different personalities is kind of coupled with, like, the superpower version of carpet compartmentalizing, where he's like, only Mark Spector knows that information.
Speaker A:Not gonna let my other personalities know that.
Speaker A:And he's just able to, like, super Compartmentalize like that and even, like, repress some of his feelings or let different stuff come out at different times because of that or, like, I don't know.
Speaker A:A lot of that I found really interesting.
Speaker A:Most people do not have dissociate dis.
Speaker A:Identity disorder, but I think there is a layer that you can still relate to where I'm like, yeah, the Joshua podcast is very different from the Josh who is at work, because I am repressing certain things, compartmentalizing my life.
Speaker A:Not to the degree of Marc Spector, because I think that is very clearly unhealthy.
Speaker A:But can compartmentalize be a superpower teacher?
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:In this particular story, if any of those personalities aren't there, he dies.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, especially, like, to the degree that Marc Spector does it.
Speaker B:Like, you can.
Speaker B:There's a difference in what we call compartmentalizing what Mark does, because I do not have any personality.
Speaker B:I don't have any of those personality disorders.
Speaker B:I might have one.
Speaker B:I'm not sure.
Speaker B:I'm not mostly good.
Speaker A:So that's the big problem that he faces.
Speaker B:I don't exist.
Speaker B:That's the first issue we have to come across.
Speaker B:Get that out of the way.
Speaker B:Systematic geekology.
Speaker B:Tejas.
Speaker B:Not real.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think this story is very relatable, actually.
Speaker B:There's a tiny, tiny version of Josh in my head.
Speaker B:He's like, yeah, you should record more podcasts.
Speaker A:Yeah, you should.
Speaker B:You should.
Speaker B:You should take on more projects.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what you should do?
Speaker B:Start another one.
Speaker A:I just need a tiny TJ in my head to tell me to stop.
Speaker B:I just took a nap.
Speaker B:It wouldn't help.
Speaker A:Probably not.
Speaker B:It doesn't help when I tell you to stop.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker B:Can't imagine you would listen to the one in your head.
Speaker A:He has a bigger mustache.
Speaker A:He seems more authoritative, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do I.
Speaker B:Stand up straight.
Speaker B:Sit up straight.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:Especially if you had, like, a giant beak and turned out that you spoke like a God and carried a moon crest on a staff around.
Speaker A:Be way more likely to listen.
Speaker A:Your eyes glue, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So another large part of this is really interesting has to do with, like, being honest with himself and all the versions of himself, his friends, and learning to trust, which is incredibly difficult in this situation because it's like, we don't know this moon God voice that's in our head, and we really don't know if it's us or an actual God.
Speaker A:And then a symbiote gets Involved that's literally controlling you.
Speaker A:And it's like, how do you trust the symbiote?
Speaker A:Because is it making me think this or do I actually think this?
Speaker A:And then Venom, the symbiote, there's an entire hive mind across all these multiverses that's being threatened of all of reality destroying.
Speaker A:And it's like, do I trust this guy who is very clearly not stable?
Speaker A:So you have like all these different layers of, like, learning to trust and then trust yourself.
Speaker A:And that meaning something very different in this context.
Speaker A:And when do you trust?
Speaker A:And having the right team, I think it would have been one thing that would have really helped this book is if at one point one of the personalities was just completely self destructive.
Speaker A:Then it was like, oh, yeah, I totally trust Bob.
Speaker A:Nope, Bob was the wrong personality to trust in Mark Z.
Speaker A:That would have been great.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's like, he is.
Speaker B:I mean, that is a way to view compartmentalization is you're.
Speaker B:You're lying to yourself.
Speaker B:So trust is a difficult thing for Marc Spector.
Speaker B:Also, Venom does have bad intentions.
Speaker A:There is that.
Speaker A:Even if he happens to be wanting to save the universe this one time, he still has terrible intentions on the way.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I mean, it's also really vulnerable.
Speaker A:But, like, part of why you don't get podcast Josh at work is because, like, I'm not putting myself out there that way.
Speaker A:It's easier to put myself out on a podcast because it's like people either choose to listen or they choose not to listen.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Work.
Speaker B:I'm just trying to get y' all to do your jobs.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Also, I'm not going to manage this.
Speaker A:You kind of have to compartmentalize different parts of your personality anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:At least a little.
Speaker B:I'm not here to talk to you unless you're working.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker A:And then I think about Will, because Will talks about this a lot.
Speaker A:I thought he's like, he's a pastor, but he's also a surfer and also a dad and also a comic book geek.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I do think you.
Speaker A:It would be really uncomfortable if Will showed up preaching and was just talking like a surfer the whole time.
Speaker A:And instead of like in.
Speaker A:And also with you, he just did a shaka, you know, like him be like, that's a little weird, Will.
Speaker A:So like, to a degree, it's just appropriate.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It feels, like spoiled to me, though.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's true.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But like, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Like, at some point.
Speaker A:Like, that's just the social norm, and it's appropriate to do that.
Speaker A:But then at other points, it is difficult.
Speaker A:And then I think the really hard thing is a lot of times we judge people off the part of them we know.
Speaker A:Like, if I only knew worktj, it'd be like, Sumi's like that all the time.
Speaker A:Most people aren't like that all the time, everywhere and with everyone they talk to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:In fact, when I'm around certain college friends, I feel like I'm a very different Josh.
Speaker A:Not because I'm, like, just holding part of myself back.
Speaker A:It's just different people bringing out different parts of you.
Speaker A:And when you have different voices in your head, that's a whole other thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Then you're all different.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The other really interesting thing that this book brings out, though, that I anxious to hear your thoughts about, too.
Speaker A:I don't know the exact quote because it's audiobook, so I couldn't highlight it or write it down.
Speaker A:That is one downside to audiobooks, really.
Speaker A:Harder to get the quotes out of it.
Speaker A:But it was like, different lived experiences cause different blanks.
Speaker A:Insert word here.
Speaker A:Great podcast content.
Speaker A:And part of why the first time it came up had to do with the fact that they were doing, like, a.
Speaker A:Trying to break into this reality's Mark's mansion.
Speaker A:And when Spectre was going in, he passed the facial recognition, the eye recognition, the voice recognition, full body scan.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:Because he's slightly different height, because he doesn't have a God Khonshu in his universe to heal him every time.
Speaker A:And he had a spinal injury which made him, like, half a centimeter shorter or something.
Speaker A:And it happened then.
Speaker A:And it comes up a few different places where it's like, yeah, we're different because our lived experiences were different.
Speaker A:And just that point of, like, how every part of you could be slightly different based on just the experiences you have lived.
Speaker A:I thought that was a really interesting theme that kind of came out throughout it.
Speaker A:What'd you make of that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, it's like.
Speaker B:It's the classic nurture versus nature argument, and it's.
Speaker B:I've.
Speaker B:I've just never not understood that.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Understood that it's both.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because it's interesting because, like, for the most part, in these two universes and within Marvel, that's not true all the time.
Speaker A:There's a dinosaur version of Venom.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, but in some universes, like the two that here, they're so similar.
Speaker A:Like, it's almost Identical.
Speaker A:Just so happens that the experiences they had throughout life is what changed them.
Speaker A:And in this instance, it was having a God in their head or not.
Speaker A:Which, you know, there.
Speaker A:There's probably.
Speaker A:If there are multiverses, there's probably a Josh out there that never believed in God, and his lived experience is probably pretty different than my lived experience.
Speaker B:They're a little bit different.
Speaker A:He probably doesn't even do podcasts, actually.
Speaker A:He probably would have never met Will I Care.
Speaker B:Saying probably.
Speaker A:The more I think about it, I'm like, that's a very different job.
Speaker A:It's a completely different person altogether.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:Because I had my car accident and all the other stuff, like, strong chance he didn't have any of that.
Speaker A:So other Josh might physically be different in several ways.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You might be in shape.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker A:I was in shape before the accident, too.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:But to be fair, that was also nine years ago.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I could be in shape now.
Speaker A:I've just taken on too many things and decided that I can't hyper fixate on specifically health also.
Speaker A:Yeah, I could still be healthier, though, without hyper fixating, but that's a different discussion for a different time.
Speaker A:That's when TJ starts his other podcast, Make Josh Healthy.
Speaker A:The podcast, it's a really specific target audience for that one.
Speaker B:It's a live, daily journal, and I just say slightly rude things to Joshua until he decides to work out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, like, does the idea.
Speaker A:Because at a metaphysical perspective, you're like, yeah, that's probably true.
Speaker A:Other versions of me are probably very different physically and everything else just because of lived experience.
Speaker A:But also, does that impact how I choose to live, knowing that the experiences I have shape who I am?
Speaker A:Like, does that, like, change how?
Speaker A:Do I want to go to work today?
Speaker A:Or do I want to meditate with a Buddhist monk?
Speaker A:Do I want, you know, do I want to go vacation at Disney World or go to vacation at a library?
Speaker A:You know, like, does that kind of stuff change the choices we make, or is it just kind of a cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's how you make choices, isn't it?
Speaker A:I don't put that much thought into most of my choices.
Speaker A:Just to be completely transparent, subconsciously you do.
Speaker B:At a conscious level, you're just like, okay, well, this is what I would like more.
Speaker B:But there's more to it than which one you would like more, whether you realize it or not.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's true, because there was a.
Speaker A:This is gonna be really weird, but there was a point where I would go to Disney by myself because I do it really cheap and have a fun time.
Speaker A:And I knew what rides I wanted to ride, and it was great.
Speaker A:I would not do that.
Speaker A:Now if I'm to do a trip by myself now, it is gonna be out in the wilderness, camping, somewhere where I can be more contemplative.
Speaker A:And if I'm gonna go to Disney, it's gonna be.
Speaker A:I'm really selective with who I want to bring with me, because it's gonna change the experience.
Speaker A:Then that experience and how we relate to one another builds.
Speaker A:TJ and I probably wouldn't be as close friends if he didn't go to Disney with me that one time.
Speaker A:And if we didn't have such a close relationship, we would both be very different people.
Speaker A:So even our Disney trips really impact who we are, I guess.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wouldn't do podcasts.
Speaker B:I got groomed.
Speaker A:That is not what happened.
Speaker A:You were too old for that to be considered groom.
Speaker A:Once we went to Disney, everything before that, maybe debate.
Speaker B:I was 19.
Speaker B:I was basically a baby.
Speaker A:Were you really 19?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Was that long ago?
Speaker A:I would have been, what, 20?
Speaker B:17.
Speaker A:That was eight years ago.
Speaker B:17.
Speaker B:I was 17 or 18.
Speaker A:Okay, so you had to be 18.
Speaker B:So I got groomed.
Speaker A:That's how that worked.
Speaker A:Anyway, that's point being, our experiences, even our vacations, can change who we are.
Speaker A:And maybe that does subconsciously impact how we make these choices.
Speaker A:And maybe we should be more intentional with how we choose to go to vacation or spend our downtime or whatever.
Speaker A:Or how many podcasts we decide to do in a day.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Dj, any final notes?
Speaker A:Four is too many podcasts in a day.
Speaker B:Yeah, four is too many.
Speaker B:Those are my final notes.
Speaker A:Are you doing four podcasts today?
Speaker B:Absolutely not.
Speaker B:I never will.
Speaker A:Just curious.
Speaker A:You know, I think three is too many in a day.
Speaker A:That's what I want.
Speaker B:You do that a lot?
Speaker A:I do pretty frequently.
Speaker A:I need to change that.
Speaker A:And on that note, we'll go ahead and wrap this one up.
Speaker A:We do have a bonus question.
Speaker A:As always, the big difference, since this is one of our alreadying accounts episode, you can buy the bonus question separately on Patreon if you want, for $3.
Speaker A:And all of those purchases, the money will go to being donated to local libraries.
Speaker A:Same thing if you buy the merch in a merch store that says all reading counts.
Speaker A:If you send TJ $2 in the mail that has a note for local library, he will go give it to the local library and then be aggravated because it Might have cost him about as much in gas as he actually donated to the local library.
Speaker B:No, my library is super close.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:But the bonus question for this is going to be which comic book character outside of Marvel Comics would we most like to see merge with the Venom symbiote?
Speaker A:Stick around if you want to hear us answer that.
Speaker A:For now, we are going to give a recommendation.
Speaker A:This is going to be something from a kind of literature other than the kind this episode was about.
Speaker A:So if we're saying this was a novel, gotta give a recommendation that isn't a novel.
Speaker B:One piece, super short, quick little pirate story to read this weekend.
Speaker A:Several thousand chapters of the manga.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay, we're not doing novels, man.
Speaker A:I feel like this is easy grab stuff, but I recommend a comic.
Speaker A:Actually, you know what?
Speaker A:I'm gonna recommend a different comic than what I was gonna recommend.
Speaker A:Sonic X Justice League.
Speaker A:Really fun.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's really fun.
Speaker A:Yeah, like, it's not like deep storytelling, but it is pretty entertaining.
Speaker B:He's faster than the Flash.
Speaker A:Spoilers anyway with that.
Speaker A:Guys, we do hope you enjoyed this episode.
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Speaker A:We also want to shout out one of our sponsors, Daniel Sigman.
Speaker A:Daniel, we love you.
Speaker A:You rock a man.
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Speaker A:Apple Podcast, Captivate, or Patreon.
Speaker A:Remember, if you want to hear other episodes in our All Reading Count series, you can see that link down below in the show notes.
Speaker A:Again, please remember, bonus question merch, all that stuff for All Reading counts.
Speaker A:We love donating to our local libraries and we need your help to do it.
Speaker A:So think about that.
Speaker A:And remember, we are all a chosen people, a kingdom of priest.
