From Rivalry to Partnership: The Pixar and Disney Connection

Andy Walsh: 00:01:10

Foreign.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:01:23

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, space Rangers, cowboys and cowgirls and potato heads of all ages, we welcome you all to the wonderful world of Walt Disney's animation studios, and in this case, Pixar. If you couldn't tell what movie we're talking about today, based on that description, we are discussing the first, first Toy Story.

And this is part of our Disney era series. This is systematic ecology. We are the priest of the geeks.

And in this series, we've been looking at different eras from Disney animation and looking at different movies to correspond with those eras. This is actually one of three Pixar movies we'll be discussing. So it.

Even though Pixar is technically separate from Disney, there is obviously a lot of correlation between the two, a lot of history between the two companies, both as rivals and then eventually partners, which we'll get into in a little bit. So, yeah, very excited to talk about the first Toy Story movie. And I am Kevin Schaefer. I am here with one of my fellow geekologists, Andy Walsh.

Andy, how are you today?

Andy Walsh: 00:02:29

I am doing very well today, Kevin, thanks. How are you?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:02:31

I'm doing great. I'm excited to talk about this one. And I, you know, I. I was joking with you, like when we were scheduling this episod.

Know, I think I need a refresher on this movie. Between growing up on it, seeing it a million times, and then having now a niece and two nephews, I think I've only seen it about 10,987 times. So.

So I. But nonetheless, I very much look forward to discussing.

Andy Walsh: 00:02:56

Awesome.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:02:57

Yeah, awesome. Well, before we get into the main topic, Andy, what have you been geeking out on lately?

Andy Walsh: 00:03:03

So last night we watched the movie Fly Me to the Moon, which I thought was a little bit related here since it's about the Apollo 11 space project and the transition in the world from the Wild west frontier to space the frontier.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:03:20

How was it? Because I remember the trailer. I just resubscribed to Apple because of Severin Season two, so I can now watch.

Andy Walsh: 00:03:29

Was interesting. Obviously, it's Channing Tatum, Scarlett Johansson, very charismatic leads. Very entertaining to see them together. It was.

I was surprised at how much of the plot of the movie revolved around events that didn't happen. Given.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:03:44

Interesting. Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:03:45

Given that the theme of the movie was about the importance of telling the truth and that, you know, faking the moon landing would have been a betrayal of, you know, American values. Or betrayal the truth. Betrayal of the hard work that folks put into the Apollo Program.

I thought it was then odd that they spent so much that so much of the plot revolved around this faking of the moon landing idea that they were doing a backup plan.

It wasn't really faking the moon landing so much as just having a backup plan for the TV broadcast in case something went wrong with the actual moon landing or the broadcast thereof or the TV signal, the camera signal from there. So, yeah, that was kind of interesting. But, you know, there are worse things.

You know, it still had a lot of actual truth about the space program as well. And fairly respectful of the Apollo 1 astronauts. You know, there was a fair amount of tribute to them. So kind of, you know, pluses and minuses.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:04:48

I do want to check it out. I heard mixed things as well. But, you know, I mean, I like.

I don't know if it's like, worthy comparison, but I mean, I love, like, Apollo 13 and like any kind of, like, space exploration movies. Interstellar, of course. So I know it's still very different from that. But I do want to check it out. I probably now again that I've got Apple.

I'll definitely check that out. So I guess.

And then for me, speaking of Apple, again, the reason I resubscribed to it is Severance is finally back, which I think is one of the best shows I have seen probably in the last, like, 10 years, if not more. First season was amazing, and I've been eagerly waiting for season two ever since.

So I'll probably talk about it more in depth on a what's News episode coming up. But I did very much enjoy the season two premiere. Love that show. So I'm really excited that it's back.

Andy Walsh: 00:05:36

Excellent. By way of segue, can I hit you with a fact that struck me as I was thinking about the movie and the space program?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:05:45

Absolutely.

Andy Walsh: 00:05:46

There is more time elapsed between the release of Toy Story and now than there had been between the moon landing and the release of Toy Story.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:05:55

Wow, that's wild. Dang. Are you saying we're getting old here?

Andy Walsh: 00:06:01

I don't know about you. It made me feel like I was.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:06:03

Getting old because I. Yeah, we will.

Andy Walsh: 00:06:07

Well.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:06:08

And I definitely want to get into our first exposure to the movie and, you know. Yeah, it is, but it is wild how much time has passed just since that one. But. But yeah, that is. That's fascinating though. Time is. Yeah, 20, 25.

It's weird, but yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:06:23

Yeah.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:06:23

Well, we all. That is definitely a great one that you put into perspective and. No, thank you for sharing that.

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So we really appreciate your support. Okay, well, let us get into Toy Story. So again, this is part of our Disney era series. You can catch up on a playlist of reviews from the series.

It'll be linked in the description here. But this is here where we've been looking at different eras from Disney and in this case this will be the first Pixar movie we're looking at.

the Toy Story was released in: 1995

John Lasseter, one of the co founders and the director of this movie, was a former employee at Disney, had kind of cut ties with them and along with Steve Jobs and others had come to form Pixar.

And also, I don't know any of you know this story, but one of my favorite little bits of really just pop culture history in general is that, you know, part of the reason Pixar was formed is that George Lucas, even after the Star wars original trilogy had come out, he was actually on the verge of bankruptcy because he had invested so much into Skywalker Ranch, culminating with the fact that he produced the Howard infamous Howard the Duck movie, which of course was a critical and commercial failure. So he kind of needed some cash and as such he sold a small VFX division of Lucasfilm to Steve Jobs for however million dollars.

And Steve Jobs worked with Lassiter and the others to convert that into Pixar. So I, I do love that that was its origin. So we you can inadvertently think Howard the Duck for Toy Story. Awesome. Yeah, exactly.

So, so yeah, this is Pixar obviously huge sensation. And while different from Disney again. They have such a history of starting off as rivals and then eventually becoming key partners.

And now, you know, if you go to Disney theme parks or any kind of Disney property, you will see a ton of Pixar merchandise, theme parks, characters, etc. So the two have become very much intertwined, whereas they were once separate.

And as a lifelong Disney and Pixar fan, I'm glad that the two coexist now because, like, I can't really imagine, you know, like, I started seeing like Hollywood studios now with all the Toy Story lands. It's one of my favorite attractions there. So I. Eddie, before we get into.

Because that's a little bit, I mean, I'll just say, like, my relationship both with Toy Story and Pixar is, I mean, I was born in 93, so, you know, I was like, right, a kid. Right. Growing up with Pixar and growing up with Toy Story. So it was a really cool experience for me because Toy Story came out when I was very young.

I, I especially remember seeing Toy Story 2 in theaters growing up on the VHS and everything.

And then by the time Toy Story 3 came out, I was in high school and it was sort of a like, farewell to these characters, even though little did I know they would make a fourth one. But, but that was kind of like a, you know, coming of age, like, ending of this chapter in my life.

So it was really cool to grow up in that time with these characters on these stories. But what was your kind of background like the first time you saw this movie and you know, just like general exposure to Pixar?

Andy Walsh: 00:11:02

Sure. So, you know, continuing the theme of I'm getting old, I was in high school.

This movie came out my senior year of high school and so I missed it when it went around in theaters. Disney and animated films just kind of weren't really on my radar.

So the first time that I saw this would have been the following year when I was in college at Carnegie Mellon. They had, as a lot of schools do, they had movies on the weekends for like a dollar or something. You get them with your student id.

And Toy Story was one of those movies and Carnegie Mellon, big computer science school. And so everybody was stoked about the first computer graphics, the first feature length computer animated film. So the crowd was really into it.

I remember folks being excited about the fact that it was the first film to have a website URL in the end credits if you sat around long enough. Www.toy story.com or whatever it was. I'm sure it was something like that came up as part of the end credits.

Just like to encourage you to go and log into this website. You know, with the, I mean, the World Wide Web kind of became a big deal.

Just, you know, a year before: 1994

On first viewing, my wife was. Well, we were, I didn't know her at the time, but eventually we met in college and got married.

And she was a big Disney kid growing up and fell in love with the Pixar movies. So The Toy Story 1 and 2 toy box, box set, special edition box set was one of our first DVD purchases and we got a lot of mileage out of those.

And then for me, Toy Story 3 was one of the first movies that we took our kids to in the theaters.

So, you know, that theme of kind of passing things from one generation to another really, really resonated was really something that we were, we were experiencing. Going to see that movie?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:13:23

Oh, go ahead.

Andy Walsh: 00:13:24

No, no, I think that's it.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:13:26

No, I was going to say all that too. This movie is so generational. It has that long listing, long lasting impact is I, I was a kid when it came out.

Well, I was only two when this one came out.

e I was a kid in Theater when: 2022

It's really cool to have that long lasting impact that it's just so, you know, timeless and universal and it speaks to different generations. And I actually got a few years ago in Halloween when my youngest nephew was, he was only a few months or so at the time.

Me, my brother and sister in law and my nephew did a Toy Story costume group for Halloween, which I got to be Stinky Pete, which was a blast. My brother was Buzz, my sister in law was Jesse and my nephew was Winnie and their dog was Bullseye. So that was a blast. But I, I got to.

Because my costume was like I had to be in a group, otherwise I wasn't. People were like, who are you supposed to be?

Because I remember going by the comic shop right before we got together and I was in costume and they were like trying to guess who I was. And I was like, if I stand next to Woody and Buzz, you'll know exactly who I am. But I had the white beard and everything, so that was a blast.

But, but it is so cool.

I mean, I, you know, thinking about just the impact of Toy Story, it has, you know, had this timeless generational impact on, you know, kids, adults, families, you know, and it speaks. I think we'll get into more as far as why. You also talked about why it was such a groundbreaking at the time of its release.

It was the first computer generated animated movie, which is a huge deal for the time. No one had seen this type of animation and rendered in the way it was. And I, that is fascinating too.

I, I did not know that that was the first movie to have a website address at the very end, you know, which makes total sense. I mean, these were, you know, Pixar heads were some of the biggest technological innovators.

And you know, it reminds me of too like when Peter Jackson was working on Lord of the Rings, he was one of the first adopters of using online forums to communicate with fans and update them throughout the process.

And yeah, for, for any younger listeners out there, hey, there was a time before streaming and there was a time before social media, but there were other avenues and innovative technologies that were coming about that were very revolutionary at the time.

And I think too, you know, even with all of the movies that have come since then, both from Pixar and Disney Star later adopted the kind of similar style with movies like Frozen and Tangled. But even since then, Dwight's story still holds up so well with its animation, with its theme. So we will get into all that.

Anything else you want to say just about your relationship with the movie before we get into kind of a brief plot summary and get dive deeper into.

Andy Walsh: 00:16:33

The movie, you know, just a little bit more of that context. Not really my relationship, but that historical context that I thought was interesting. I was trying to refresh my memory, right?

So: 1984

So 84 was the very first use of computer graphics to render something that was supposed to. You were supposed to read as real. 91 is the Terminator 2 movie which made a big splash for its computer graphics.

Only four to five Minutes of on screen cgi.

they were just not using the T: 1000

ed in the real world. So the T: 1000

But again, only six minutes of screen time and then so only two years later to go from that to a full feature length film was kind of, kind of mind boggling.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:18:07

That is wild and fascinating.

It's like you think, because I mean, you know, you know what the Jurassic park and stuff are such monumental blockbusters and advanced technology so much. But to see that it's actually that little amount of time of CG is fascinating.

And since you brought up the last Starfighter, I actually got to see that in theaters last year. They were playing at Alamo, I think toward the end of the summer. Yeah, that was a fun. So that's definitely a gem. If you've not gotten to see.

It's a little, it's quite campy and fun. I really love the alien designs in that movie and the special effects.

So that is a, that's a really good summer blockbuster for you to chance to see sometime. But yeah, awesome. Well, no, thank you so much for that perspective. This is what I, I think we, we've got between our interests.

Like I, this is like a perfect summation of getting into just like the impact the Toy Story had in Pixar's history. So this is fascinating, but.

Well, just, I don't want to spend too much time on this because I imagine most people have seen Toy Story so don't need like a huge recap, but for the story of the movie. This takes place in a world where toys have personalities and talk with each other.

Granted, their human owners or counterparts don't know that they do. They are alive. But the toys kind of exist in their own world. We meet, of course, Woody and the gang.

And Woody is the favorite toy of the kid Andy, and for a long time he's held this title. But when the movie opens, it is Annie's birthday and Woody and the rest of the toys are gathered around.

They send the little toy soldiers on a mission to spy and do reconnaissance to find out, okay, what toys is Andy getting this time? And lo and behold, the biggest one he gets is of course, Buzz Lightyear, the super popular Space Ranger.

And as soon as Buzz comes in, and also Buzz, when he meets the toys, he has no idea that he is a toy. He is fully convinced that he is a Space Ranger from outer space, there to fight the evil Zerg and protect Earth.

Which makes Woody even more mocking of him. But as Buzz moves in, he quickly becomes Andy's new favorite toy when he feels like he's becoming replaced and as such develops a bitter jealousy.

And one night, this is as Andy and his family are getting ready to move. They go out to dinner one night and Andy's mom tells him that he can bring one toy with him.

He intends to bring Buzz, but Woody, prior to that, tries to have Buzz knocked out of the way. Not in a harming way, but basically isolated so that Andy won't see him, then he'll take Woody instead.

But this leads to an incident where Buzz is knocked outside the window and the rest of the toys think that Woody has, you know, become a monster until Buzz. So this creates a bitterness between them and. But then Woody is taken to Pizza Planet, so he's in the car.

Buzz eventually catches up with them and they have a fight at a gas station. And it's during the scene where they're left behind because Andy doesn't know that they got off the car and are fighting in in the parking lot.

They then hitch a ride and catch up with Andy and his family at Pizza Planet.

But a series of events unfold and both was and Buddy are kidnapped by Andy or taken by Andy's sadistic neighbor Sid, who takes them back to his house and is, yeah, quite an evil kid, has basically other sort of mutated outcasted toys there that he does experiments on.

And as this storyline plays out, this is where Buzz realize it comes to an existential crisis and realizes that he is in fact a toy after seeing an ad on TV for other Buzz Lightyears. And this creates an existential crisis. Eventually, Woody helps him realize his true purpose and they become friends.

And Woody helps him realize that Buzz is there to make Andy happy and that he can still have purpose. Even though he is not the actual Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger. He can still be a true hero and he can still be a great toy.

So then series of events unfold. Eventually the two of them lead kind of an uprising with the other outcasted toys and scare the crap out of Sid and eventually escape.

In the finale, they are trying to Catch up to the moving bus before Andy and his family leave. All this time, Andy thinks that Woody and Buzz are gone forever. And also, the toys are still against Woody because they think he killed Buzz.

That eventually gets resolved.

And then in a big climax after Buzz is convinced the whole time when he still thinks he's not a toy, that he can fly, that there's this great flying sequence and the line, you know, this isn't flying, it's falling with style. So it's a great moment. And eventually, they do reunite well with Andy. They're in the back of the truck.

All the conflicts with the toys get resolved, and in the final scene, it's Christmas at the new house. And now Woody and Buzz are friends, but they're a callback to the beginning of the movie. They're seeing what and he's getting for Christmas.

And they both have a bit of a panic attack when Andy's big gift is a puppy. So that sets the stage for the sequel, but yeah. So that is the first Toy Story in a nutshell. Anything you want to add to that, Andy?

Andy Walsh: 00:23:55

No, that was a great job.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:23:56

Perfect, like you said. I said I didn't really need to refresh myself on this one. I've seen it quite a few times.

And then as far as rating for this movie, I don't really think we need to disclose how much we love it, but. But do you have. Do you have any criticisms of Toy Story or any rating you want to give it? I think for me, it still holds up as really a 10 out of 10.

Andy Walsh: 00:24:20

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think the only thing to hold against it is that it's not Toy Story 2.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:24:24

That's very true.

Andy Walsh: 00:24:25

But other than that, I. No, no quibbles.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:24:29

There is nothing like the sequence in Toy Story 2 with that heartbreaking song when it reveals Jesse's origin and the. If somebody loves you, you know that everyone's heart out, no matter how old you were, including Tom Hanks and Tim Allen.

They talked about how when they first saw a screening of it, they were in tears. That is a heartbreaking scene. But no, it's.

I mean, one of the few franchises where it gets better and better, but still, nonetheless, it is a great first movie.

Okay, so we talked a little bit about just the CG and the animation, but is there anything else you want to add to just, like, the specific style, how the CG is rendered here, what the characters look like, especially for Andy, from your perspective as, you know, a scientist and talking about how innovative it was to see this kind of animation back in the 90s?

Andy Walsh: 00:25:25

Yeah. I mean, obviously, like I said, nothing, nothing quite like this had been seen on screen before. You know, there are Pixar had done some short films.

I don't know how widely those were seen. I don't remember having seen any of them.

Obviously the short film before the Pixar feature has become a staple, but I think for most people, that was their first introduction to, to those Pixar shorts. I don't know how, you know, I don't know where else one might have seen, you know, Tin Toy or things like that in the theaters.

I think they were largely, you know, festival kinds of things and whatnot. So, you know, that was groundbreaking. Obviously it was.

And I don't know the history of how they came to this choice, whether it was serendipitous, whether somebody sat down and thought, what. What can we actually render?

Well, but, you know, the decision to make a movie about toys so that you could do a lot of hard surfaces and you didn't need photorealistic humans and you didn't have to solve the uncanny valley problem of humans that look kind of human but not quite that Polar Express and some other films kind of ran into later on. So it was very well thought through, very well executed to look as good as it could.

Obviously, looking back, even compared to the later Toy Stories, you can clearly tell a difference. It is clearly early days in computer animation, but I don't think that takes you out of it. Even watching it now. I think it still works.

Like I said, they made smart choices to restrict what they were trying to accomplish and to do the do something that they knew they could do well with the technology at the time while also kind of pushing things. And it, you know, it was also fun. You know, it was also interesting to see, you know, kind of watching the Pixar evolve and the technology evolved.

Right. I remember. I remember going to see Monsters Inc. And just being blown away by the fur on Sully, you know, because previous to that you had a lot of.

A lot of characters, like I said, with hard surfaces, things that were fairly easy to render with simple textures and things like that. I mean, I say simple, but compared to the complexity of having to render a surface that's entirely fur was just mind blowing.

There's a sequence in the snow early on in Monsters Inc. That was just kind of like, okay, now this is next level for sure.

And subsequent films with water and all feathers and various different things that, you know, they really just continue to put the boat out but even at the time, you know, it was, it was impressive to see what, what they could do.

And I don't, I mean, I don't have strong memories of, of every bit of that first viewing, but I don't remember at any point ever feeling like, oh, this is, this is taking me out of the story. This looks too hokey or whatever. You know, you just kind of went with it.

Even, you know, even when we did get human characters and they weren't the most photorealistic human characters that we'd ever seen.

But, you know, to me, the point of reference is, you know, Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast and films like that where, you know, those, those are stylized humans as well. And so, you know, they went with, with stylized look rather than trying to be photorealistic. And I think that was, that was smart and it paid off.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:28:46

And I think early on, you know, like, it's a great point that, like, there was so much evolution after that. This was obviously the revolutionary and the basis for everything that came after.

But I think one of the strong about the animation here is just the facial expressions and eye movements of the characters and how that was really what made these toy characters feel real and lived in and, you know, even like more human than like the human characters in the movie, you know.

And like, that was, I think, one of the biggest things I, I think there was already mass improvement in Toy Story 2 because I still remember like seeing in theaters and that opening sequence with like, which turned out to be Rex playing a Buzz Lightyear video game, but it felt like a actual Buzz on a space mission battling Zerg, like that. That sequence was mind blowing as a kid. And so there was already like a massive evolution just in, you know, those first two movies.

But here I think that was some of the coolest thing, was just like the expressions of the characters, the dynamics between them. It really pinpointed to how revolutionary the style was and the potentials of it.

Andy Walsh: 00:29:59

Yeah, and I don't think you can underestimate the analog value of having Tom Hanks and Tim Allen, who you mentioned being the voices of our two main characters.

My sense is, and kind of looking back at the cast of animated films that were coming out around this time, it wasn't unheard of to have recognizable names and recognizable voices in those kinds of films.

Obviously it had Robin Williams in Aladdin voicing the genie, for example, and the Lion King film that had come out a year or two earlier had a fairly well known cast. But a lot of the Disney movies that preceded this had relative unknowns or voice actors in the lead roles.

They might have character known character actors in supporting roles. So, you know, somebody.

So having like Don Rickles and Walla Sean show up here in Toy Story in the supporting characters, it was not quite as notable, but you know, Tom Hanks, you know, I mean, Tom Hanks has kind of continued to be Tom Hanks, but this was sort of the first peak of his popularity. This was Tom Hanks Oscar winner and perennial Oscar nominee.

And Tim Allen was the star of one of the biggest sitcoms on tv, was also starring in feature films, in live action feature films. And so having that kind of star power, those recognizable voices giving humanity to these animated characters who might otherwise come across.

They're not even human characters, right. They're toys come to life. And so, yes, the facial animations and all that were very expressive and really helped to sell that.

But I think also the humanity and the talent of the voices behind them sold it as well.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:32:43

And since you brought up casting, I'm looking just at Wikipedia right now. I knew some of this, but this is fascinating looking at some of the names that might have been too.

So for Woody, John Lasseter always wanted Tom Hanks and approached him.

But a couple other considerations from Jeffrey Katzberg, who was at Disney, Paul Newman was considered who, you know, later accepted the role of Doc Hudson in Pars. So he did get a Pixar role eventually. Robin Williams and Clint Eastwood were also like possibilities here.

Robin Williams, I kind of see Clint Eastwood, I guess, with the cowboy thing. I think that's what they were going for.

Andy Walsh: 00:33:23

Sure.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:33:23

But it's one of those things you can't see any imagine anyone other than Tom Hanks. But the ones for Buzz, this is a whole list of potentials here.

So Billy Crystal was approached and declined, which he later regretted, but then ended up taking the role of Mike Wazowski in Monsters, Inc. But addition to Crystal, these are some wild names that were considered for Buzz.

You've got Bill Murray, Chevy Chase, which I knew, Jim Carrey, Jason Alexander, Dan Aykroyd, Matthew Broderick, Kevin Fostner, Michael J. Fox, Richard Gere, David Hasselhoff, Michael Keaton, Wayne Knight, Bill Paxton, Dennis Wade, Kurt Russell, Adam Sandler and John Travolta.

Some of those, like I, you know, I can definitely see.

Others are like, wow, that is a wonderful, like, what if, you know, but ultimately went to Tim Allen, who, like you said, was a huge star of Home Improvement at the time. And then, I mean, some of the other casting that were. And I mean, Wallace on will always be Rex. I mean, it was just so iconic there.

So yeah, there was, you know, there's such iconic casting that made for so much of the, of what made this movie what it is. And then while we're on that, so I'm looking at just some of the other, the history of the movie.

Again, a lot of it has to do with the relationship between Pixar and Disney.

So John Lasseter and by the way, so I do want to put a discretion here because like John Lasseter, I just, as a note, did have accusations made against him years ago. We will also bring up another problematic figure in Joss Whedon. So we can't, we kind of have to discuss these people.

But I do want to put it out of discussion there that yes, these are problematic figures with, you know, me too allegations against them. So I just want to put that up there that we're not condoning these people as people, but, but they were very intricate to this movie.

But so years before Pixar and before Toy Story, John Lasseter had pitched a full ECG movie, an adaptation of the Brave Little Toaster, to Disney, which was rejected and that eventually led to his firing from Disney. There was a lot of back and forth over the years and.

But eventually Disney became to be a distributor and to have at least like, not so much like creative control over the movie, but that there would be deals and settlements so then they could sell merchandise and they could have, you know, the characters at theme parks. And originally they, there was a short called Tantaway and Toy Story would be a feature length adaptation of that.

And then as far as the writing, so because this was being entirely produced by Pixar with the heads, there a lot of the animators there, like Andrew Stanton, Lassiter, Pete Docter, who are all, you know, I mean, especially Anderson Pete, Dr. Have gone on to be key creative forces and make some of the best Pixar movies of all time.

But at the time, a lot of them were not experienced screenwriters.

They were veteran cartoonists and they understood animation and how to, you know, craft an animated world, but weren't necessarily veteran screenwriters and didn't know how exactly to produce featured screenplay.

So because of that, the script went through multiple rewrites and, you know, was still in kind of a phase of not knowing really where they wanted to go. Eventually they were brought on writers like Joel Cohen, not Joel Cohen like of the Coen Brothers.

But a key difference is the H in Cohen, Alex Sokolow, and later again bringing up a problematic figure, but one who did have a key influence on the script and the final version is Joss Whedon, who at the time was a rising screenwriter. I guess at this time, I guess Buffy had premiered. I'm not exactly sure the time. I'd have to look up there when the timeline was, but.

But he had written an alien movie. He was very much a rising force in Hollywood. So he made significant rewrites.

The script was the one who introduced Rex, he introduced Bo Peep, and he was the one who re envisioned Buzz Lightyear story as from being kind of a dim witted but cheerful and self aware character to an action figure who isn't aware that he's a toy. That was what really transformed the film and changed the entire arc of the narrative.

,: 1983

I really recommend you, like anyone who wants to go into depth here can look up just like all the ups and downs and pitfalls that came into the production of this movie. It is quite fascinating. And is there anything you want to share about just like the history and production side?

Andy Walsh: 00:38:49

Yeah, I mean a lot of that was. Was news to me, so I don't have a whole lot more to add.

But yeah, I mean Joss Whedon was a big name at the time in script doctoring, coming into fixed scripts. And so there's always been rumors of which movies he had a pass on that went uncredited because of the various WGA rules. So that was a big deal.

And that Tin Toy short was the first computer animated short to win an Academy Award.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:39:24

Yeah, yeah, it is. And it's fascinating that, yeah, that was the origins. And also Woody's original name was Tinny, which I'm glad that was changed too.

Yeah, this is a fascinating like again, like what if could be. There was also a lot of hardships they had with recruiting animators because like, you know, they didn't have a lot to pay.

Pixar was still an entirely new company. They were. I mean, I also. If you want to dig deeper into this, I recommend listeners go check out. It's a documentary called the Pixar Story.

I watched it on Netflix a few years ago. I don't know if it's still available there, but it's probably really cheap to rent.

That one is a really good insight into both the early days of Pixar and Yeah, I mean it was such a.

Almost like a startup where a lot of These creators were just working, you know, with, you know, the computers they had working in essentially more like basements. It's very similar to, like, the story of Apple's creation with Jobs and W working in a basement. So it's, you know, this was.

There is a lot to be said about how great, how great, how groundbreaking the movie was, and it really.

What a miracle it was that it got made in the first place because really, they had a lot working against them and if they hadn't resolved the speech with Disney, who knows where, if it had got, would have gotten off the ground and where Pixar might have been. So it is fascinating to look at, but, yeah, definitely. Definitely a lot of ups and downs.

But eventually, given depression, I'm glad we got the creative team and the voice cast that we got because it could have been very different otherwise. So, yeah, that's a lot. You know, there's a lot more, I think, to go into, but definitely check that out.

You know, there's plenty of online content you can check out to see a little more about the history behind the making of the movie and the formation of Pixar. So Andy getting into a little bit more about what we love about Toy Story. What are some of your favorite scenes, songs, characters?

Let's start with favorite scenes. Do you have any that, you know, really stick out to you and that never get old?

Andy Walsh: 00:41:38

Yeah, I think for me, the best sequence in the movie is the Pizza Planet sequence. When we took our kids to Disney World for the first time, we got to eat at Pizza Planet. They had a themed restaurant there that was.

That was quite a thrill for me. I don't know how much the kids were into it. I think they were. I think they just liked that we got to eat pizza. They were kind of at that age.

But, yeah, just, you know, the, you know, it gets us out of. Out of Andy's house. So, you know, it's a fun set piece in a different environment, which was impressive.

There's, you know, the alien in the claw machine. You know, that's obviously just a great bit. The claw. You've been chosen. You know, so they're a lot of fun.

And just, you know, the way in which, you know, it's a fun bit of action and all that, but it also, you know, kind of, because the restaurant is themed around the Buzz Lightyear universe, it helps to reinforce his. His sense that, you know, this is all real, but.

But, you know, also raises questions about, you know, it's a pizza restaurant that's, you know, space Space Ranger that's got a spaceship. And so yeah, it just, you know, it's really well done, it's a lot of fun.

And yeah, I think, I think it's probably one of the highlights of the film for me.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:43:03

Oh, the Pizza Planet seen as iconic. I've also been to Pizza Planet. Disney Pizza's not that bad there too. It's, it's well worth ch.

But I would say one of my favorites in addition is all of the scenes at Sid's house with again the kind of like mutated outcasted toys. Because what I love about that is that you're initially scared of them. Especially as a kid.

You're looking at, you know, this like one eyed baby head on top of a like Doc Ock type contraption and you're.

I meant initially made to think that there are monsters when in reality these are the more empathetic, you know, displaced outcasted figures who ended up becoming allies to Woody and Buzz and helped them save the day. So I really like that because it really provides empathy with the movie and it causes you to look beyond what you initially see.

So I really love those sequences and of course, you know, ones with the iconic lines of like, you are a toy. You're mocking me, aren't you? You know, I mean, all the quotable ones that never get old. There are so many. But, but the pizza plan.

Oh, I mean the, the, you know, the claw is one of the most iconic moments of the movie and the, the, the LGM voices just never get old. So that's easily one of my favorite as well. And then of course, we cannot talk about Toy Story without discussing Randy Newman.

Of course there's you've Got a Friend with Me, but do you have any other favorite songs from the movies or, or even like sequences from this with the score? Because it's a great score as well.

Andy Walsh: 00:44:37

Yeah. You know, apart from, apart from you Got a Friend in Me.

I have to say that that's not, that's not an element of the movie that has stuck with me necessarily as much. You know, it has been a little bit of time since I've, since I've caught up with this one and yeah.

So I'm struggling to think of anything else that really, really stands out.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:45:01

I'll have to look up the name in a sec.

But though it's the one that's really memorable, beyond Friend with me is when Buzz, after he has that existential realization that he's a toy and he falls in Sid's house and comes crashing down. And there's another Newman song playing right there that's this kind of more melancholy expression.

And it culminates with him on the ground and his legs broken off and he's kind of in pieces. And he realizes like, oh, I'm not. But it's like, you're a space Ranger, I'm an action figure.

And it's a really, like, crushing, but really sincere and heartfelt moment. So it culminates perfectly with Newman's music. So I do love that one.

And then there's, I mean, obviously what it was, but there are so many characters in this movie from supporting cast and then both human and toy one. So do you have like any other. Any favorite characters in the movie?

I mean, I know of course everyone loves Woody and Buzz, but any other big standouts?

Andy Walsh: 00:46:05

You know, we've mentioned it before, but I will always be partial to Wallacean's T. Rex.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:46:09

Yes.

Andy Walsh: 00:46:10

You know, just a great character and always, always happy to see him turn up.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:46:16

Rex is the best. And then I really Love, of course, Mr.

Potato Head, you know, as it's kind of like just kind of like, you know, initially grumpy and then, you know, that really, that his get even better in two and three once he has Mrs. Potato Head and their dynamic with each other. Of course you love him. Of course you love Bo Peep. I mean, it's a pretty flawless ensemble cast.

So there isn't really a bad one. But those are my favorites.

And, and I love too, that in a kids movie, you know, with Winnie, I like that you have a character who you still love and relate to, but is also very flawed. And you are all, you know, his jealousy does consume him and, you know, he makes some really bad decisions.

And I like that that in a kids movie you can have someone that is still the leader of the group and is still a great character, but is also very flawed. So I think that's what makes him one that really stands out. So. Yeah.

Oh, and then as far as, like, where you can find the characters in Toy Story in other movie shows, places in the Disney parks. So here there's a lot. Obviously there are the Toy Story sequels, which now we have three and another one on the way.

I have mixed feelings about that because I think they have kind of exhausted the property or at least if they're going to. I. I kind of really hope for Toy Story 5 if they're doing it, that they might introduce new characters.

And because at this point, you know, even in Toy Story 4, which was surprisingly good, it's not anywhere near as good as the original trilogy, but it's a pretty good Woody solo movie. It almost feels like if they did like Logan old man Wolverine in the Toy Story universe is kind of close comparison.

But the only thing with that one is, like, Buzz has some comical moments, but his story is pretty much exhausted and there's not really anything left to do there. So I think with Toy Story 5, I hope they do something fresh and new and maybe bring some new characters and have these ones more as supporting ones.

Granted, that's a little side rant there, but. Yeah. So you have Toy Story 2, 3 and 4. Is there trying to get that? I guess there's like shorts and stuff too. I can't think of any other examples of.

Well, I mean, and then with Buzz Lightyear, there's quite a bit there. Andy, did you ever watch the animated Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger series?

Andy Walsh: 00:48:38

I did not watch the. No, I did not watch that show. We did go see the Lightyear film.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:48:45

Yes, yes. Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:48:47

But not the cartoon.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:48:49

I really hope that they add that series to Disney plus eventually. I don't know why it's not there. There's probably some rights issues or something, but I grew up on that one. It's a great cartoon.

There was a movie that kickstarted it and then a subsequent animated series. It's almost like Green Lanterns, really. It has that, like, intergalactic police force. And so that one was really good. I do hope it gets it.

And yes, there was a Lightyear movie. So those are kind of the main alternate media.

And then as far as, like, where you can find them at Disney parks, we of course mentioned the Pizza Planet location, which is great. And I mentioned Toy Story Land earlier. That's at Disney World in Orlando. In Hollywood Studios at Disneyland.

There is also a huge Pixar section in California Adventures. They've got a lot of stuff with cars there. Definitely some Toy Story stuff.

But yeah, I think my favorite Toy Story themed element at the Disney parks is the. Well, well, too there's the Buzz Lightyear ride. That's at both Disney World and Disneyland. That's been a favorite of a long time and similar.

But because it's also kind of like a shooting, sort of like Ryan, is the Toy Story mania at Hollywood Studios, which is also like, you're in a little car there. And that one's really cool. Have you written both of those, Andy?

Andy Walsh: 00:50:16

Yes, yes, we made sure to do both of those.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:50:18

Oh, yeah, those are a blast. And like, I really like the Toy Story media because, like, it spins you around.

You also are, like, shooting different objects, and it really integrates it with kind of, like, more CG animation. And he got the glasses on. It's a ton of fun. But. But I also love the Space Ranger ride at that. That one is Magic Kingdom, so.

Yeah, that one's a blast, too. And then, of course, you can find the characters roaming everywhere at the park.

So a lot of good Toy Story and Pixar stuff, you know, at the various Disney theme parks. So. Y. Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:50:59

And like, a.

I was gonna say it's not Toy Story 1, but the character Sporky has a series of shorts on Disney and probably on some of the home video releases, Sporky asks a question. And they are just delightfully absurd little quick gags of Sporky asking things about what is computer?

And getting this explanation of what a computer is from other toys. And they are just. They're just very charming. The intro to them has to just Sporky asking all kinds of different questions that don't go.

Don't get answered, including, how long have you been a horse? Which is a question that my daughter and I ask each other on the regular.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:51:43

I mean, why not? That's like. I mean. And who knows? I mean, this could be something like existential reality where we are, you know, other beings.

But I love that Sparky was a very big standout of Toy Story 4, so I do love that character. But, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I'm sure there's other shorts and stuff I'm missing, but there is so much.

Andy Walsh: 00:52:03

There was a Halloween. There was a Halloween special.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:52:06

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, no, there's a lot. But, yeah, I think. I mean, I've been riding the Buzz Lightyear ride for years and years, and I really have to. Mania.

But, yeah, definitely go to all the next time you're at the Disney parks. Go to all those. But if he's a planet, you have a lot of fun there. So very cool.

Well, so getting into just the next section here, thinking deeper about the movie. So, Andy, what do you think kind of one of the core messages of the film was, or the question it was trying to ask?

And just describe your perspective on that from a theological, philosophical perspective.

Andy Walsh: 00:52:44

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think one of the brilliant things about the film is that its premise works for a preschool or kindergartener.

What if your toys came to life while you weren't watching something that probably lots of kids imagine, and that experience of getting new toys and how those fit in with your other toys?

I think that's also something a lot of kids have experienced, especially in the era when toys represent people, action figures and dolls and different things where they represent characters that have their own personalities and, and things that come with them. And so how do those get along, I think is something that lots of kids thought through as they were growing up.

But then also it's Plato's allegory of the cave for preschoolers. Right? You've got trying to wake Buzz Lightyear up from his preference for this made up world that he inhabits.

And you've got with Woody, the story of how do you deal with the anxieties of becoming obsolete and being replaced and the world changing around you in ways that you don't recognize.

here in the United States in: 2025

And you know, like you said, Woody, you know, goes to in some of those places, right. It isn't just a, you know, everybody's happy and does all the right things all the time kind of movie.

We do see Woody making some, some questionable choices. We do see a real struggle there with how do we, how do we accept somebody who, accept somebody who is very different from us in both directions.

Right. Both Woody and Buzz are having to, having to work with that and, and a lot of the other toys too, to a lesser degree.

And so yeah, I think it doesn't necessarily unpack all those things. It's not necessarily a mile deep on those topics. But how many other movies are Plato's allegory of the cave for preschoolers? Right.

I mean, it's going there, it's touching on those things and it's an opportunity to start conversations at various ages. You can relate to it as a four or five year old, you can relate to it as a teenager.

You can relate to it as a adult and a parent and a middle aged man or woman. And you know, so yeah, I think there's a lot going on for, you know, an 80, 85 minute kids movie.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:55:23

Oh, I think you nailed it there. And I mean, confronting themes of pride, jealousy, forgiveness, like all these things are backed into it like you said.

I mean, yes, that's been done other times before, but to do it so eloquently and concise and, and to have it being relevant to both kids and adults is something that not every movie can do and like it. And I think that's why it's remained so timeless. And.

And again, I know we're focusing on the first movie, but, you know, I talk about how I grew up with these.

And the third one came out when I was like toward the end of high school and how, you know, it was feeling like this, you know, this huge part of adolescence and growing up and like you grew up with these characters and dealt with a lot of the same struggles that they dealt with. And you know, those themes are so relevant.

And I, and like I talked about, you can have a protagonist like Woody and Buzz who, you know, are still great heroes, great characters, but that also have their own flaws and their own, you know, petty grievances with each other and learning how to confront those and become better for themselves and their community as a result.

And you know, and now Andy, I do have to ask too, because like, I am, as you can see from behind me, I am one of many who is guilty of this in that as a collector of many figures and memorabilia, I keep them, a lot of them in boxes and on display.

Do you think that that is a crime after watching Toy Story unleash them and let them be played or it's like I just got a like really nice McFarlane toy, Superman 78 that just looks so good up there on the wall and I don't want it ruined, so I keep it in a nice box and on display.

Andy Walsh: 00:57:10

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think those, especially things like those McFarlane toys, I'm not sure that they're really meant for kids to be played playing with. You know, I think, I think it's more about, you know, the people than the toys.

I don't think we owe anything to the toys, but I think, you know, in situations where you're keeping things away from, from kids who might be getting enjoyment out of them, that's maybe a question. That was something. I didn't have anything mint in box.

But when my own kids came along and they've discovered some of my toys at my parents house and so forth, there was a little bit of like, I don't know that I want you playing with that because maybe you won't play with it.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:57:46

Right.

Andy Walsh: 00:57:46

And I went, oh, but you are an adult now and that is not really an adult thought that you need to be having. What's more important is that your kid has a positive experience with it and not that he has exactly the Same.

Does exactly the same things that you did or treats him exactly the same way.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:58:01

So no, it is no like I, I love sharing like Star Wars, Spider man, all these things with my niece and nephews now. But yeah, my toys are the one thing I'm productive of. So it's like, like he's like, I am more than happy to get them their own and.

And like have those. But yeah, but some of mine are. These are collectors items. They are not to be played with.

But yeah, but yeah, but no, I think it definitely hit on a lot of those. Anything else you want to say about just the themes of the movie or really any final thoughts?

I know we, you know, we've dealt into a lot here, so either that or just like practical application from this discussion because there was a. There is a lot to take away here.

Andy Walsh: 00:58:44

Yeah. You know, I think the only thing to underline. You brought it up before, but I think it's worth coming back to thinking about the themes of the movie.

Right when the sequence with in Sid's house and all the toys that have been rebuilt and what have you. You know, just that extending.

Extending a healing hand whether is a good thing and extending a welcoming hand is something that those toys demonstrate well. And you know, we could do far worse than to take away that particular lesson from this film.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:59:14

I love that. I mean it really just like. And that's.

I think it had an impact on me even as a kid where I may not have understood all of it at the time, but it really is a great lesson in empathy and showing understanding for other people. And yeah, like you said on inauguration Day, you know, I'm not anxious at all about the next four years, but. But it does.

You know, I think that's one of the best things we can do to confront a lot of our anxiety is. Is just be empathetic toward other people and to lend a listening ear and try to hold off judgments. I think it is a.

That is a great practice all of us can have going forward. Wow. Awesome. Well, Andy, this has been fantastic here.

We are about to wrap up, so we've got time for an extra question here for subscribers to check out after the show. So you can stay on just a sec for that. But any. Do you have another recommendation you want to give?

It could be related to this topic or something totally different.

Andy Walsh: 01:00:26

A recommendation for Toy Story. Yeah, I'm blanking a little bit, so I'll just go back to those sporky shorts. If you just need a good laugh for two minutes, you could do far worse.

Kevin Schaeffer: 01:00:41

Hey, that's a good one. I'll say. It's not directly related to Pixar, but it was this is another thing I've been geeking out on lately.

It's a YouTube channel called Bullets and Blockbusters which looks at kind of like what ifs with movies. So like for instance, like what if Dior La Toro had made Hellboy 3?

Or you know, like the famous Almost Happened, Tim Burton, Nicholas Cage, Superman movie. All these different. And not just those, but alternative versions of movies we did get.

So like what Avengers could have been or you know, Dark Knight 3 or a bunch of others. So that is a fascinating one. I'm sure there will be some Pixar episodes at some point.

So I do really recommend that YouTube channel for anyone like me who loves like really getting into nitty gritty geeky stuff related to movie history and alternative version. So definitely check that out. So but yeah, for our listeners out there, again thank you so much for tuning in. We really appreciate it.

And go support us on Patreon and you give us good reviews on any wherever you get your podcast. We really appreciate it. And check out too in the show notes for this episode. You can look at the playlist for this whole series.

We really appreciate you all listening. And remember, we are all a chosen people. A Geekdom of Greece.