Physical vs. Digital: What's the Greener Choice for Comic Lovers?

Joshua Noel: 00:01:11

Foreign.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:01:14

Should we consider environmental effects when buying comics? This is systematic geekology. We are the priests of the geeks. I'm very excited to talk about this topic.

I am Kevin Schaefer here with two of my favorite geekologists. Joshua Noel, Will Rose. How are you guys tonight?

Joshua Noel: 00:01:31

I'm great because I'm here with you guys.

Will Rose: 00:01:35

Yeah, it's a Friday night and I'm here helping my mom down in Wilmington and. But I got my spare mic, the Last Jedi mic that Joshua gifted me with some headphones and I'm ready to geek out with you guys.

I couldn't be with better people.

Joshua Noel: 00:01:53

Does this count as a gift?

Will Rose: 00:01:55

I know the Last Jedi mic.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:01:57

I think it's a great gift.

Joshua Noel: 00:01:58

I love the Last Jedi. We've had that talk. You guys can go back and watch that.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:02:03

Jose, if you've not seen that episode, it is very clearly.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:05

There's a playlist of each of us specifically in the show notes and they could find that episode in any of our playlists.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:02:13

Nice. Yeah, I like it. Very cool. Awesome. Well, guys, before we get into the main topic, what have you been geeking out on lately? Will, we'll start with you.

Will Rose: 00:02:23

Yeah, I, you know, in terms of comics, it's a good time to be a comic fan. Like I, my stack of comics this week were just some great comics. Number one on the top that I wanted to read.

Justice League Unlimited, Mark Wade, Dan Mora. Dan Mora is.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:40

I should have went first up there.

Will Rose: 00:02:42

One of my, my favorite artists currently in the game in the biz. And Mark Wade, of course, with his DC knowledge. Great. And I have a good Mark Wade story at a Comic Con at some point that we'll share a lot of time.

My run in with him is super.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:02:59

I met him too. Nice. Awesome dude. Yep.

Will Rose: 00:03:02

So I love that. And then everybody knows I'm a big time surfer.

The new season of the World Surf League, which is kind of like NFL, NBA of World of Surfing, happens next week at Bonsai Pipeline in Hawaii. The new, new season starts and one of my favorite surfers, Katie Simmers.

Caitlin Simmers, the current women's world champ surfer who is like 17, 18, maybe 19 years old. She's super rad. Just dropped a new video on YouTube called Blouse. Go out and watch it. She is pushing the limits in women's surfing. She's so good.

She's so rad. Check that out. It's only 20 minute clip of her surfing and she's awesome. So that is what I'm geeking out on these days.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:03:46

Awesome. Josh I know we'll stole one of yours, but any that or any other comics.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:52

Yeah, yeah. Justice League Unlimited is incredible, but since he listed a few, I'll just.

I've also been for another secret collaboration project between Systematic Ecology and whole Church podcast. I've been reading the Alias comics, so I've been geeking out a little bit on the character Kilgrave and David Tennant, as always.

And since you did a bunch, I'm doing one more. Obviously. It's January 24th. This is actually because of all the craziness in my life.

Probably later tonight, I'll finish all of the Kingdom Hearts games this year for the first time. And I think this is the longest it's ever taken me to finish all the Kingdom Hearts games in a year. 24 days. Wild.

What have you been geeking out on, Kevin?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:04:39

I'm going to say what your record.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:41

Is, but yeah, I think two days. Well, it depends when you count. If you only count after the third game came out, two days. If you count since forever. One day.

I used to do it the very first day of the year I played, when it was just Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories, Kingdom Hearts 2 and 358x2 and some of the other DS ones. I would do all that in, like, a day. But now that there's all these other games involved and in between games and Kingdom Hearts 3, it's.

It takes a little bit.

Will Rose: 00:05:12

Oh, my gosh, Joshua, you're gonna have me drunk before the end of this thing. It's a drinking game. Every time it says Kingdom Hearts, I have to take a sip.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:19

Well, you're gonna be wasted.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:21

Yeah, I'm sorry. I. Now, part of my Christmas presents was a Kingdom Hearts lanyard that I have on my keychain.

So now it's just constantly on display because I have it hanging out in my pocket. So anytime someone's like, oh, what's that? I'm like, this is a great time.

I get to get to geek out and talk about the greatest video game franchise of all time.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:39

Yeah, well, you need to keep your mind sharp for this discussion. Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:45

This is. This is a versus. This is a versus. You're supposed to be representing the other side.

So I got to get him nice and wasted first so I can win the debate.

Will Rose: 00:05:52

I'm doomed.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:53

It's not a real debate.

Will Rose: 00:05:54

For the record, queue up C3PO going, we're doomed. We're doomed.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:59

Very tactical, Joshua. And then real quick, what I'm geeking out on. Like, I.

I read the Penguin Volume 1 by that written by Tom King, which I didn't know right when I picked it up. It was part of an ongoing. So I did really enjoy it. The only thing is, like, it's a lot of setup and because it they like the first issue is great.

And then the rent where like the basic premise is that the Penguin has been retired, kind of thought dead and living in Metropolis. And then he gets recruited by an agent of Amanda Waller to rebuild his empire in Gotham and kill Batman.

So it has a great setup, but a lot of that trade is just him building up his team and kind of like reforming the empire and getting back into his roots. Still very well done, great art. So I did enjoy that.

And the only other quick thing is that kind of random, but I watched all three Equalizer movies this week for the first time. And I don't know, I think part of it is like, I mean, who doesn't love Denzel and like action movies?

But I think part of it was given the state of the world, I really needed to watch Dental Washington just like beat up a bunch of bad guys. And it was very cathartic.

Will Rose: 00:07:06

So I enjoyed those real, real fast. I'm at my mom's and they have stars and I pulled up John Wick episode four or the fourth movie.

And I watched that last night in a very cathartic watching John Wick 4.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:20

Random, random fun fact about me because, like, I feel like everyone when you. When you think about stuff I geek out on you. Think of Kingdom Hearts and Darkwing Duck. Sorry. Well, I just.

I got to win the DEB and I feel like no one. Like some people are like, oh yeah, Florida State or like Star wars, let alone some other stuff.

But like, I always feel like it throws people off when they discover that I have a tradition where every single year I refuse to let the year end without watching all of the Ocean's movies. I don't know why. I love those films.

Will Rose: 00:07:48

They're great.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:52

Yeah, just a fun fact because you mentioned watching all those. I was like, sometimes you just gotta have a movie marathon.

Will Rose: 00:07:58

Yeah, but going back to Penguin, like, there's the ep, there's the. The MA series that we loved, and then Tom King, which is Joshua, his favorite author because he's so wordy and all his graphic.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:13

I do like some Tom King, but.

Will Rose: 00:08:16

I skipped the Penguin series. But I love Tom King. And so I'm definitely going to go back and get that graphic novel and read it and read it all the way through in one sitting.

I didn't collect the comics.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:26

But there's a new Batman comic I just read that I loved, but I forget what it was. I can't recommend it to you guys. I'll text you later and the listeners can wonder what it was.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:08:36

Yeah, yeah. Which one?

Will Rose: 00:08:38

Tom? King Penguin. I'm there for it since he did Supergirl, Woman of Tomorrow and that's the next movie they're gonna do. Or for the DC Universe.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:45

I'm gonna tease another some of our content. I'm on a roll today, plugging ourselves.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:08:50

Okay, go ahead.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:51

I'll text. I am gonna text Kevin and Will later what the name of this comic was that I forgot. But if you guys want to hear it, head over to Comic Book Catch Up.

Cause me and Will are on it together in February and I'll bring it back up then.

Will Rose: 00:09:03

Okay.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:03

Yeah, perfect.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:09:04

Right on. Sweet. That actually is a good segue too, for a quick like, if you do want to support the show, support us on Patreon. Like this video on YouTube.

You know, I know it is winter right now, but if we get 50 likes on a YouTube episode, Will. We'll do something and film it during the springtime. We said he would be. Will involve frolicing through the hours. It was frolicking.

Whether that's through the snow, whether that's through flowers, it'll involve Sunday. Whether it's in his house, it'll be.

Will Rose: 00:09:32

I was in Utah and It was freaking 8 degrees in Utah where I was skiing and snow. I would have hopped in my bathing suit. In fact, I got in a hot tub in my bathing suit outside in.

And then hopped in the snow to like, therapeutic ice my. My. My hamstrings and knee in the snow and then hopped in the hot. I would have.

Man, I would have videotaped that if there had been 50 likes, but you guys missed it, so we're gonna have to keep pushing.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:09:59

Well, we do appreciate the support regardless, to all of our listeners and viewers out there. So we really appreciate you spending some time with us. And tonight we have a really unique topic here.

This is one I think Joshua pitched originally, and we've been kind of planning this for a while now. So in this day and age, you can consume comic books in different ways.

Obviously, there's the old school physical way of whether you get it from a comic shop or a bookstore or wherever you can get in single issues, you can get in trades and graphics novels, but you can also do many digital formats. So you can use different comic streaming services and you can do Apple Books, Kindle and anything like that.

But thinking about all of that and thinking about how we consume comics, we're going to look at what that effect has on the environment. So the environmental impact of consuming comics physically in the ill way or digitally, because both have really interesting effects.

So we are doing this. I actually, I like to think of this as going to be more conversational, but I know Joshua will want to make it more versus so we do.

That's why we do have the. The verse.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:11

I was mostly joking.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:11:13

No, I did. Yeah. I think. I like.

But I mean, I think is we really want to look at both sides of this and not in a like which one is better in which way, but just looking at the pros and cons of both and avenues and the environmental effects. So I think this will be a really interesting discussion. So. So starting first about just what are the environmental impact. Environmental effects here?

So first question. How many trees are cut down to produce paper each year? I. And this is something I think Joshua has been researching intricately.

So I'm going to hand it over to you guys for this.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:52

Yeah. So obviously we can't really tell. There probably is studies out there. They're hard to find how many exactly are for comic books.

But we know in general, around 4 billion trees a year are cut down just to make paper. Most of the time, we don't replenish that.

You can do your homework to see which published companies make sure that happens, because usually, usually a published company isn't the one planting the trees, but they can be selective of where they get their paper. So some publishers will make sure that they're getting their paper from a source that's going to plant a tree for when they cut one down.

A lot of companies don't do that. And in the comic book realm, there isn't a ton of publishers. You know, you're. You're right. Got a select few to choose from.

My understanding is none of them really go through the homework to make sure that they're getting theirs from sources that do this. So that is one concern. There's a lot of, like, I'm gonna be the negative Nancy of the episode. I have concerns on all sides. Yeah.

Like even the digital one, there's a lot less trees being cut down, but they still, for some of the chips in your devices, have to cut down trees to create that.

Will Rose: 00:13:07

Mm.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:08

And. And I'm gonna go back to this a lot too. It's a lot like when people are like, well, how do you think your electric car is getting electricity?

That's from Gas? Well, yeah, but it's using a lot less gas to produce that energy and that's just kind of something you got to think about.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:13:23

Well, what are your thoughts here on just like that and other environmental effects of making physical comics?

Will Rose: 00:13:29

Yeah, I mean just going back in terms of my history, like I'm a kid that grew up on comics and on the spinner racks and the gas stations and little stores around my house and those kinds of things and then the local comic store. I really value those things and I love having the physical copy of the actual book and the comics in my hand. That's just how I read.

I don't want to say better but. But yeah, like I like to have that physical copy in my, in my hand.

But I do like digital comics and digital books for, for some avenues and some reasons but.

And I don't know the nuance of the effect on the environment of a particular like paper versus digital and the power that it uses in our devices with the chips and then the mining and the fossil fuels and all that goes into those kinds of. I don't know the nuance. I'd be open to listen to those things and what's better for the environment.

I will definitely say that I'm all for bettering our environment and not wanting to pile on the climate crisis that's already out there. So whatever I can do to improve those things, I will listen to the experts and the scientists that are a part of those things.

That being said, just to preamble just a little bit, I love the local comic shop and the community and the physical copy.

Similar to like how we get music, whether it's like digital Spotify, Apple Music and then getting the real physical copy of the vinyl in the local vinyl music store to talk about and geek out on music in the vinyl record store versus the comic store. So maybe that's kind of where comics are going in terms of being like kind of a retro like vinyl record store that comics are going to be that way.

But all in all that's kind of where I am on the spectrum. But I'm open to listen to Joshua and other experts. What's better for the environment for me to get digital or to have the physical copy.

I've definitely tried to slim back the pull list. Just my own bank account of what I'm buying for the rising cost of physical comics. But I'm open to digital comics and what that means.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:45

I think we're going to get to a little bit later the direction we think comics are going and what role that plays in the conversation. But I wanted to pull this up really quick.

I had it a little bit later on in the slides, but I think it's important some of what Will's getting at here too. I think overall digital comics are going to be a lot better for the environment, digital books in general.

But if you look at Amazon specifically, which is where a lot of us are, you know, we're going through Kindle, we're using our Kindle app with our comics. Its carbon footprint has increased every year for four years.

So I don't think anyone should be under the impression that, oh, I got this Kindle and now I'm better for the environment. Well, the Kindle itself might be, but you're supporting Amazon, who is destroying the environment.

So that's also an important part of the conversation. Your local comic book shop owner isn't out there wrecking entire, you know, mountainsides and trees for resources.

They're just running a comic book shop. Amazon, on the other hand, I think from my understanding Google.

So if you use like a Google tablet, which I don't, just full transparency or Apple, if you're like, even if you're using your phone, they don't have the same problem that Amazon does. You can't see this chart very well. The big number is Amazon. And like those little ones further down, that's like every other digital source.

Amazon is way worse than the other in this particular.

Will Rose: 00:17:14

Trying to figure out what greater impact can I personally do in this? Because I will pull up Marvel Unlimited to read back issues. Current pull is to stay current with a couple of the main comics that I like to pull.

I'll get in my local comic shop and support local, my local comic shop for that. But in terms of like, hey, Ryan Dose is like, hey, you should check out the were 219 when Jack and Da da da. Jack and Lee were doing this thing.

I'm not going to go run to the back issues and hunt them down or buy it off ebay. I'm going to look on Marvel Unlimited and see what that issue is all about.

So going to back issues and looking and referencing those things, I'll go digital for that on my phone rather than that kind of stuff. So that's kind of where I am with digital and physical and I'm all ears to how to help our environment.

But those stats of like whether it's Amazon because I'm going to buy my books at my local bookstore, Flyleaf Books in Chapel Hill, rather than trying to buy it on Amazon and then I'm going to buy my comics from Ultimate Comics, my local comic store versus the big online store. But I think I'm all ears for how that helps the environment and what that means in terms of digital and physical copy of comics.

And I think comic creators and independent comic book creators in terms of web comics and how they can put that out there for folks on the Internet to get visibility for the story they're trying to tell versus like the big publishers out there, Marvel DC Image and what they do in terms of what they produce.

But there may be an independent comic book creator who has a web comic that you should read and you don't have to worry about the physical copy and you're supporting and donating to a creator owned IP that they're just trying to make it off the thing. So there's that kind of dynamic with how to tell stories in the comic book world too.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:19:20

And will building off that kind of where I am on this, I'm sort of in between too because I love physical media.

I love like I was going to shops and do it but from an accessibility standpoint it's a lot harder for me to read the physical books these days and comics. And so I do read a lot digitally And Joshua, I'm glad you sent this like because I don't like Amazon. I don't like, I don't use a Kindle and stuff.

I read mainly on my laptop and for comics I have a better luck getting on Apple. I use like the Apple Books app there to get a lot of my comics and I use Kobo for a lot of just like prose books and stuff. So I.

Yeah but like I do kind of a mix and so for basically for books that are.

I want to keep going and some of the smaller ones, even if I don't physically read them, I'll go ahead and collect those physically to keep those going, to support them and to support the shop. And then I read a lot, you know like a lot of DC and Marvel read digitally.

But yeah, and I mean one of the other things about Amazon is that they bought Comixology a few years ago and absolutely ruined it because oh my gosh. Because like not only is it just like bad but like it's terribly inaccessible. I can't even get. You can't get it on a desktop and it just looks awful.

So they single handedly destroyed it. So yes, I'm all for ranting against Amazon. I play guilty of using it, having Amazon prime whatnot.

But I also when even like ordering Online, like, I order through Barnes and Noble or through a local bookstore or whatever, and you know that it would be a much better option there.

I also want to bring up, too, another one to think about in terms of a digital avenue that supports both creators and charities is Humble Bundle, which I know brought up on the show before. That's where I get. I've gotten a lot of books through there.

A lot of indie publishers use it, and it's really cool because you could pay a very small price for literally hundreds of comics on there, and you're supporting charities while you're doing it. So I like avenues like that where it's not all just supporting a big corporation.

Joshua Noel: 00:21:28

Yeah.

And I know we were going to get to other reasons later on other than just the anthropology stuff, but I think we're all in the same camp of, like, a little bit of both and probably to different degrees. For me, the closest comic book shop is over an hour away. You know, it's kind of like I'm pretty limited in my options here. Right. But, you know, I.

I actually have two Kindles. I don't love Amazon, but I do know that it's. It's cheaper. And honestly, a lot of their products are better.

I'm hoping some of the other ones do get better. A lot of this, for me, goes to a show that will and I like. I don't know if Kevin likes or not. We'll find out. The Good Place.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:22:11

Oh, yeah. Good Place.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:12

I love the Good Place because that last season, or maybe it's the second or last, there's a character that they meet who's doing all this stuff because, hey, if I use this water, technically it's coming from this city. This city supports. Yeah. You know, it's like all this weird stuff where it's like any little thing I do is technically contributing in a negative way.

And that's where they find out that all points are counting as Bad Place points for everyone. And that's the thing you could get in your head and stress out so much.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:22:40

One of my favorite moments, the Good Place, is when Maya Rudolph goes to Earth for, like, a minute there. And she comes back, she's like, okay, I give up. There's no way to be, like, completely more on there.

Everything is, like, contradictory stuff like that.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:51

So I was like, yeah, that was great.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:22:53

Yeah, so it is. Yeah. Like, I mean, I. There's not really a perfect way of.

You know, if we were to boycott every company that has immoral practices or anything, then we wouldn't be using like, anything. So it is a, It's a tough balance.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:11

Yeah. And I do think there's a way to tell, like, sometimes there's clearly, oh, this is worse than this.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:23:16

Yes, yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:17

Everyone here will agree Donald Trump is worse than any other politician.

You know, at least in America, it's one of those where, like, sometimes there is clearly, like, this is worse, but that doesn't make the other thing better. You know, like, and then there's sometimes.

And I think this is probably one of those times where it's legitimately difficult to tell what is worse, what is better. You gotta make the best choice you can. And that's where I keep leaning into this.

Christian Taoism or Taoist Christian is probably how I should say it, because I'm more Christian than Taoist. But, like, that whole thing that Lao Tzu focuses on, of just emptying yourself and the way is clear. And I think sometimes you got to do that.

You can't just stress out on, okay, well, if I do this, I'm supporting Amazon, but if I do this, I'm killing trees. If I do this, I'm, yeah, just, like, chill out a little bit.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:24:07

Be human.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:07

Do the best you can. Lean into what is good. And if you got it wrong, you got it wrong. I think it's more important, what is your spirit about it?

If you're just, I don't give a crap. This is easier for me, so I'm gonna do it. That's probably wrong. But if you're doing, like, this is the best I can do.

And I'm just gonna go with this real fast.

Will Rose: 00:24:29

In terms of Good Place, like that episode with Doug obsessing over certain things, I was like, whoever wrote this show maybe has a little inclination of kind of Lutheranism and, like, works righteousness and grace when it comes to that. And of the show Aaron Simmons talks about, he can maybe connect us with a philosopher who helped write for, for the Good Place.

Yeah, I, I, I think part of that, that understanding of wrestling with what I can do and what I can't do, and then what, what grace is involved, I think is a part of that.

As your resident Lutheran minister who talks about grace and unconditional grace, there's, there's so much we can do in response to God's love and grace in our lives. But then, like, the works, righteousness and being obsessed with doing so much good or not doing enough.

I think that was the angst of Martin Luther back in the day of trying to figure that out and trying to do everything he could To. To. To be worthy at the. At the foot, the feet of God or the divinity and. But beget, lean into like, unconditional grace that.

Like this I can do all that I can, but it's all going to come down to God's grace rather than what I do. So all of this is spoken with a word of grace. Like, we're going to do the best we can knowing that we're flawed human creatures.

And we're going to have to extend some grace in all this when it comes to how we navigate the world and what we purchase or invest or divest into. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:03

And if anyone has ever doubted God's grace, just know that we live in a world where I can argue with and discuss what method we're going to use to read comics with my pastor on the Internet. I ever thought I would hear myself say. And I just say it.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:26:26

That's what I love about the show. We can have these conversations.

Will Rose: 00:26:29

But yeah, no, that's why we do.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:26:31

Well, is there anything else you want to say? Just is looking at the environmental, natural resource effects of both avenues of consumption.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:42

Yeah. I think other than just trees, because a lot of times we're like, well, books killed trees, thus book bad.

There's a lot more that goes into this stuff.

Even when you're thinking about computers, it's the chips, it's how many machines that are running on fuel that did this to mine to get the stuff that created your smart device. And some stuff's above my head. TJ was explaining me the other day, because we have a little bit of a disagreement.

And we're going to have this disagreement in a meeting soon for our show to get a little bit of meta for you guys about the use of AI, specifically when it comes to, like, not art, but generative AI because of how much power it uses. And there is environmental concerns with that, too.

And that's hard for someone like me to wrap my brain around all the time because I'm like, my computer was running for the same amount of time. How could that be more powerful? It's like, actually my computer was on less time because I didn't have to type all that.

And yet the creation of this caused a lot of energy.

And on a recent episode, I had Taylor Thomas on the show and she was talking to us about, she's from the Appalachians or Appalachians and how the hurricane hit that thing. And a lot of your metropolitan newspapers talking about how, oh man, the destruction of these backwater cities might really impact the tech industry.

And then look at this image. That's what you're concerned about. And that's the thing, too. I feel like we lose the humanity in a lot of this.

Not only are we losing the fact that there's more resources than just trees. Right. There's power, there's the stuff that's used to build your computer.

Will Rose: 00:29:20

Humans. How about resources? Humans?

Joshua Noel: 00:29:22

Yeah. And I think all this is, like, real cost. And I think my big takeaway is I think it actually might depend how much you read.

If you read as many books as I do, I truly think that I justify the use of my Kindles because otherwise, not only would I be killing a lot of trees, I don't have enough space in my house for the amount of books that I read. So it's just one of those. Like, that makes it easier.

And also, you got to think, like, there's some things, like, for me, a lot of the times it's like, well, if I'm only going to read a comic, like two comics a month or something, and I can just pull it up on my phone, I don't have to buy another device. I don't have to. You know what I mean? Like, it's. So there's convenience with. I can either have it in my pocket or drive an hour to get a comic.

Will Rose: 00:30:13

And the gas you use?

Joshua Noel: 00:30:14

The gas I use to get there. Yeah. Then like the human resources.

Will Rose: 00:30:18

You're winning this argument.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:19

There's all kinds of little pieces involved, and it's just. It's difficult when you have all these pieces put together. I just don't think we can discount any of it.

Will Rose: 00:30:30

Yeah, I like having the physical. The copies of the comics. But then, like, what do I do with it after I've done reading it? Like, to put it in the long boxes, short boxes that are my.

In my closet. What I do with it when I'm done? What do I hold on to, what I let go? You know, some. Some of those things. This kind of storage and.

Yeah, what I do with these. These paper comics. And I think, you know, even the owner of our comic book store that.

That Kevin and I at Ultima Comics in North Carolina, they have full, like, online shows where they're trying to sell, like, back issues and those kinds of things. What do you do with. They have a warehouse full of these comics. So what do you do with these physical copies?

At some point, my family is going to be left with these physical copies of these comics. What are you going to do with them? So, yeah, I hear you. What do you do with these comics, when you're done, what are they produced?

But then the digital convenience versus but then we'll eventually get to the community of being in the shop and supporting the local business. But yeah, I see all those points.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:44

I also just kind of like to show, again, it does depend how many books you read, right? So on average, E readers produce more than 60 pounds of carbon dioxide gases per unit it compared to paper books. So that's 60 pounds more of gas.

And a pound of gas is a lot because gas weighs like nothing. It also produces 98kW hours more use of fossil fuels than what it takes to create a paper books.

So if you're only reading a few books a year, it actually is better for the environment that you don't get a reader, right? But if you're reading a ton, you know, so that kind of thing I think makes a difference. And also, you guys brought up a lot of the stuff too.

Like the physical. There's something about having a physical copy sometimes, right?

And I think the biggest challenge for me when it comes to E readers, so my biggest thing with physical books is finding a place for them. And I read so much that actually probably would be worse for the environment and just the convenience of, hey, I have it in my pocket.

My biggest challenge against E readers, though, is what if I want to go to a comic Con and I g. Willow Wilson, decides to go to Heroes Con in Charlotte, and I'm like, all my comics are on my phone here. Take a Sharpie and sign my phone, right?

Like, what am I gonna do? Right? And, you know, maybe we'll be able to use, like, some of that, like, the stuff that I don't understand, like, what's it called?

The TFGs or whatever. And, like, have a special online digital signature she could put on, and I know that it's just her that did it on. I don't.

I don't think we're there yet, though. And I don't understand a lot of that. So sometimes I'm going to buy a physical book just in case.

Will Rose: 00:33:23

Sharpie your forearm. She gets Sharpie your forearm. And then you get that tattooed in your forearm and it's always there.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:33:28

Yeah, there you go.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:30

And that's the arm that I use to read Ms. Marvel and Hunger in the Dusk.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:33:38

Did you bring that up though, too?

Because just as a side thing, like, I mean, I do love getting signatures, but I much prefer getting pictures with creators and, like, actors and everyone else at Con because, like, I want evidence that, like, hey, I Met this person. So, I mean, a signature is great, but I'm like, if they, like.

I love getting just, like, a picture with them and then, you know, putting that on social media.

Joshua Noel: 00:34:00

Oh, yeah. That's my favorite. One of my favorite pictures that I'm having a hard time finding. Will might actually have it. I don't know.

e they were releasing back in: 2016

And it was that same year that I met him that I finally remembered them, read them. Did a podcast with Will about Rocket and Groot. And then I met Scotty Young.

I got to tell him, hey, man, that moment for me where I finally got to finish your series, it was a really healing and powerful moment for me. And, like, I got to share this moment with him and talk to him, and he was like, man, that means so much.

Will Rose: 00:34:47

I forget about the story. It was so good. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:34:49

And having a physical book to have signed there would have been awesome, but I forgot.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:34:56

No, you got that memory, though.

Joshua Noel: 00:34:57

I got that picture.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:34:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I think that is a nice segue into getting into, like, the community aspect, which I think here there is an element of community, both, obviously, in physical elements of, like, going to comic shop, going to Cons, but also there's avenues for digital communities as well. So let's just talk about that. Like I said, Joshua, that's a great story. Well, what about you?

I mean, obviously, you go to the shop all the time, but, like, what are some of your favorite Con memories? Going to the shop, et cetera? I've got a few of mine as well.

Will Rose: 00:35:30

Yeah. For those listening on the pod.

But then on YouTube, you see, like, us at North Carolina Comic Con this past year, where some of our hosts were gathering together. And then we have Joshua hopping in the TARDIS at Maha Comics in Denver. So, yeah, there's something about gathering in the shop.

And, yeah, you're supporting them in their local business and the economy. But also, hey, what are you reading? What are you geeking out on? What story is inspiring you? What do you like, what you don't like in comics?

What are you really excited about that's coming out? What's new that week? So there's that person to person, face to face, human to human contact of sharing those stories.

So, yeah, that happened at comic Cons where you meet the actual creator and author and artist of the particular thing you're geeking out on. But there's also the local shop that you hop in each week. I'm a Wednesday warrior. I go in every Wednesday.

If not Wednesday, it's probably Thursday or Friday to pick up my poll. I'm not a person who waits weeks and weeks to grab the comics out of my poll. I'm there every week because I want to connect with them.

I want to see what's coming out and I want to read the comics before the next week comes out. So that's kind of where I am in my weekly geek out. I don't spend a ton of money on clothes or other extravagant things.

I tell my wife is like, yeah, there could be worse things. It could be boats and midlife crisis that I spent or cars that I spend my money on.

But no, it's 20 bucks a week, 30 buc week on comics just to connect with folks and, and see what these stories that I love to kick out on. So that's kind of where I am.

I as a community, it's a people, it's the employees that I really love and, and then going to the annual comic cons to, to meet the people behind the stories that I'm geeking out on. So yeah, I'm all about.

Even if I slim down my pull list because I can't afford it, there will be a, a few comics here and there that I'll have at the local comic shop that I'll always buy and it yeah.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:37:33

Oh that's great.

ere going to New York back in: 2018

And like so my mom posted a picture. She's like, like, yeah, we stopped in Jersey to visit the comic shop but like, and I tried to explain the significance. They were super nice about it.

Like they love us. And as soon as I got in there, three of the guys from Compliment were all there. So, so I got to meet up. So I met Ming, Walt and Mike.

Brian was the only one not there. And then I met Kevin Smith years later. So it was pretty cool.

But like, but in Wyoming going to like in that case, you know, a store where this long running pop culture reality show was filmed. Was really cool. And getting to like, meet them in person and just, you know, they were just like normal geeks like the rest of us.

And so going there, then meeting Kevin later on was awesome. And then like. And then, yeah, at NC Comic Con, you know, we've done panels like, over the years. It's always a blast. And it's just like. Yeah.

That in person connection is whether it's weekly at the shop or at conventions, you can't put a price on that. It's just like a.

Another level of getting, you know, and especially because you see so much toxicity in different, like, avenues of a lot of Internet culture and culture. And I'll get to this, the positives of. Of online communities.

But there are, of course, a lot of negativity across the border and, and a lot of that is just like spammers and, you know, people who frankly do not have things better to do with their time then, you know, bring people down.

But then a lot of times when you're in person and you get to see the opposite of that and you see more inclusion and respect for one another and everyone just hanging out and having a good time.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's challenging. And actually I'm gonna apply this to church too, because I'm like, not only am I like, I'm not just an introvert. I have like a.

Sometimes I get like crippling social anxiety.

I used to actually get like nauseous and would even vomit sometimes just because, like, people freak me out, which sucks for someone who loves church. I love people. I love going to Disney.

It's just like the crowds of the people is like, even just to be honest, like, when we went to Mile High Comics, there wasn't a lot of people, but it felt so big that it kind of overwhelming for me. So sometimes it's the smaller comic book shops I can do the bigger ones. I'm like. And then it depends how crowded it is.

I like to go when I know it's not super crowded, but there will be some people. And that's like on.

Will Rose: 00:40:15

That's. That's funny to me because I'm so extroverted. I'm like, more people the better. And you're like, less people the better.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:20

And that's what I.

All of the online community stuff has helped me a lot because sometimes it's like, even on a good day, sometimes it's just a day where I'm like, I could not bring myself to physically go hang out with you. But having the screen between me makes me Feel a little bit more secure. Like I'm in my own little bubble.

But I'm still having this community thing, so it helps me with that.

And, you know, also part of what the cool digital thing is, and this is kind of an aside, but, like, I remember when my grandfather realized he could attend online church and he could take online classes because he got to a point where he wasn't able to leave his house. And ever since that happened and how excited he got, I get so upset when people are like, well, you know, you need to go to really go to church.

It's not the same to do it online. And I'm like, hold up. So you're telling my grandpa couldn't have had the same experience? Like, I don't believe that for a minute.

I don't believe that God would do that. You know, Like, I feel like God is present with everyone. And that's, you know, a debate we've had recently on a space and time Pokemon episode.

But, like, at the same time, there is something about community that's important. I think we can get it digitally and that's wonderful. I do think it's different in person, but sometimes people like me find that really challenging.

I know I'm not the norm. It's just something I did want to throw out there. But.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:41:39

No, I'm really glad you brought that up because it is also very much an accessibility thing because, like, as someone who I am very extroverted, but also there are times where physically I can't get out and stuff like that.

So just in the last month I've been doing church online because it is freezing here to the point where, like, I physically cannot get out the house and drive, like, even to the car and get over. And so I would love to be in person.

But the great thing is with the virtual options is like, my faith formation leader has been able to FaceTime me in and then I can watch services online. The same goes for, I mean, I mean, this podcast.

Heck, I mean, like, we would, like, we would love to do in person, but I love the beauty of being able to record with people either in different parts of North Carolina or, you know, look at Evan in different state and others. And like, we have this really thriving community here where the majority of us are virtual. Same goes for my work.

I've only ever worked remotely and like, I consider some of those people my best friends.

And even though some of us have only met in person, like once maybe, but I am closer with them than a lot of people that I see in quote, unquote, real life. So absolutely.

I, I think that like, when it talk about community, yes, I get a lot from being in person with people and going to conventions, going to stores, whatnot. But there is also a strong case for digital communities. There's no need to shame people who prefer that over a big crowded space.

I don't like one does not really negate the other. I think it's just as long as you have community in your life with people who support you and lift you up, I think that's what's important there.

In this day and age, there are different avenues of how we can go about that and we can definitely use technology to our benefits. And for the purposes of community.

Will Rose: 00:43:30

I agree. And one thing I've been trying to like, really help my congregation shift from is definitely post pandemic. People are like, where? Where is everybody?

I'm like, well, they're here. There's just different ways people engage with the community.

So I've been talking more about shifting the language from membership or in person to engagement. How are people engaging with their community? That social media, online views, in person, all of that is not better or worse.

It's how are they engaging? Now, for some people and their personalities, what goes deeper, what equips them, what helps them more is in person, face to face.

Some people need the online stuff more than the other. So how are you engaging with that? And then what does that mean for you to engage with the community, how deep you go.

And that's from person to person, case to case. So one thing I'm trying to help my people leadership, congregation know is using the word engagement, how you engage it.

And that goes with our system semantic ecology too. Like, how are they engaging? They're listening, Are they watching? Are they liking a Instagram post? Are they chiming in the comments?

Engage with us so that we can engage with you.

And there's deeper relationships and community that can go further or deeper when it comes to, like, how far you engage with whatever community you want to be.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:52

Insert Facebook plug or discord plug here. But no, I.

There's a lot of challenges all around with all of this because even so, as much as I firmly believe that there isn't a quality difference really of in person or online, I mean, per person, there might be depending on your personality. Right. But I don't think it's because of the medium. I think it's because of you and what you make it because I hear a lot of.

And usually they're more conservative.

But you'll hear a lot of speeches of how like, oh, physical in person community is so important because you get this, this and this, but you could never get that out of an online relationship. And I'm like, I have all of that with my relationships and like a lot of the people I know.

And of course you tend to hang out with other people like you, so this is just going to be the case. And then you're like, oh, the whole world must be like this. It's not. And I know that.

But the people I know will share similar sentiments to me where I'm like, when I think of my church and like, who I'm closest with. Like, I am a member of Holy Trinity Lutheran Church in Chapel Hill. I love my pastor. I watch most Sundays.

I attend sometimes the Lutheran church in Rocky.

Will Rose: 00:46:04

Our new campus pastor's pretty rad.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:06

Is she pretty good? Yeah. I attend sometimes a Lutheran church in Rock Hill because that's where I live closer to. And you work most Sundays.

But when I'm able, sometimes I'll go over there.

But when I think of my community, the people I consider, like, if you use the term faith community, I'm like, well, I'm far more likely to text Ryan Dos Christian Ashley Brandon Knight to tell him, hey, here's how I'm feeling right now than I am, you know, insert random other person who sits next to me in the pew. So to me, because of my personality, that's just like, that's how I build community. And most of these people I've seen in person less than 10 times.

And at the same time, when everything that happened in my life in October happened, I do remember I had a moment when I was home alone and we're doing stuff online and I was like, I really wish Will was here and could give me a hug because there's some stuff you can't do digitally. So yeah, there's a both and to it.

Will Rose: 00:47:05

You'd love to see my round face in person. My round face.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:08

Right then I needed the round face in person, but we made it. And I'm going to see you in person again and you're going to hug me and tell me it's okay. And that's going to feel great.

And that's not something I can get online. But yeah, yeah. And again, I do know that I'm not the norm.

I wanted to show something because when you're talking about how community and how I think a lot of people feel similarly to what Will was expressing earlier. When we look at small businesses, you know, we talk a lot about culturally. We talk a lot about the importance of small businesses.

More than 90% of Americans shop at local businesses regularly. That is a huge majority. And I think that's because people want to be around other people.

And when you go to your town, you can go to these local shops and interact with one another. I think that's a large reason why people do this. And that's going to include your local comic book shops. Right.

The problem we're seeing right now though, the problem isn't that people aren't going to local businesses. It's that running a business is just not something that's feasible to do in our financial status.

Because right now new businesses are shutting down quicker than they're opening. We have a 91% of Americans shopping at local businesses, but more businesses are shutting down than they're opening. So that is a huge problem.

That isn't because, oh, we need to shop local, we are shopping local. It's because our infrastructure isn't built to support small businesses.

And that's not something that buying digitally or physically can really change. But it is something to consider, especially when we're thinking about like community or otherwise.

And then I wanted to bring this up and then let Kevin have his show back. How people are buying comics has changed a lot. And I know Will brought that up earlier, so I just kind of wanted to show this too.

Digital comics still have the smallest. They're growing steadily, which is that chart in the bottom right for those on YouTube.

The other chart shows what people are buying, how they're buying their comics. The vast majority right now are buying graphic novels, not comics or digital comics. So that's something I find really interesting.

It's like the binge culture is making its way to comic book land.

Will Rose: 00:49:22

Yeah, interesting. And I think you see that in comic. Definitely like a big. I like to.

Ifanboy is a great podcast and they talk about how people are creating comics, writing comics, or the stories they are writing. And they write to the graphic novel. So can they have one cohesive story from like four comics, five or six for a graphic novel.

And you know, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. Like write a story, finish your story, whatever.

Write to the graphic novel so that you can have a concise story rather than 100 issues of like ongoing stuff. But then there's something about the one shot comic book that is like a self contained story.

And 24 pages that they have to put in there is also pretty cool too. So anyway, I like the graphic novels I like the way that's, that's shaped and formed and how they tell a story. I like the one shot.

I like the ongoing 100 issue creator team. This telling, you know, it's layered five point plot, Chris Claremont, Al Ewing type of storytelling.

But I think writing to the graphic novel and having people buy those and, and consuming it to put it on their bookshelf, I'm cool with that. I like those two. Yeah.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:50:37

I mean, I also think a big reason for that too is like just when you look at a single issue today versus like golden age and silver Age is that in that those eras there was a lot more text in a single issue. So you could actually get a lot more meat out of a story.

Reading, you know, a superhero comic in the 60s, let's say, versus now, you just like plow through it and it's like, like, oh, that was 3.99. That took me like five minutes where.

So it makes more sense to get at least you know, an arc of a story and pay, you know, you know, closer to like 15 bucks or in some cases like Image has a really great avenue where the first volume of a trade paperback in any series is automatically going to be 9.99.

And then especially if you have other deals and stuff like that that, you know, it makes more sense to get that you get a longer story and you get to spend a little time with that versus just plowing through an issue that may not have that much text and dialogue. So that's a big factor.

Will Rose: 00:51:40

Well, that's, and I'll add like sometimes creator teams feel like they only have six or eight issues to write a comic.

So they have to feel like they have to totally revamp and reboot or recon an entire character to say like, oh, this, you've never seen a character like this before. This is going to change the industry just for their like one six issue graphic novels. Like no, just right. Just tell a story.

You don't have to change the industry or be a top 10 graphic novel of all time. You know, don't, don't try to swing for the fences. Just tell the story you want to tell.

So I think graphic novels are cool and I'm glad that people can tell their self contained stories. But I also think like the, the overreaching or over swinging for like the an Alan Moore esque Watchmen game changer kind of story.

I'm like, you don't have to do that every single story arc, change the business or change the character. Oh my gosh, we're going to kill Alfred and he's going to be dead forever. Why did you do that? But anyway, that's. That's just my issues coming.

Joshua Noel: 00:52:46

I think this is very similar to what Kevin and Evan were talking about on what's News recently. I think a lot of times it depends on the artist, right? But for me, my favorite Spider man stories tend to be those little one shots, right.

So I like the little comic for that. I even remember thinking like, Symbol of Truth. It was a continuing story, the Captain America Symbol of Truth that came out a few years ago.

But it's one that I couldn't imagine reading all at once. I needed it issue by issue. Ice Cream Man's another one that's like issue by issue is the way to go.

Reading that as a graphic novel would be bad for your mental health, I think. But then you have ones like Middle West. Scotty Young, I mentioned him before. He's one of my top two favorite writers.

I couldn't imagine reading Middle west issue by issue. I feel like you need to sit down with that big omnibus like this and just read it, which I got to do on an island in a hammock.

And it was absolutely fantastic. Yeah, it was.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:53:52

No, I think looking at this discussion as a whole, I know we kind of focus on the environmental aspect, but just the manner we consume comics, the way the industry is changing, all these factors come into play. So I guess we've covered a lot of points here. I guess just kind of getting into wrapping up here a little bit.

What are just some, you know, because I looked at, I think about the pros of both, but looking at all that, I guess do you think it's better to. Is there a way to have a balance between the two means of consumption and that be beneficial for both, you know, environmental effects?

And then also, like we were talking about supporting friends, creators, local businesses. What does that look like in your minds?

Will Rose: 00:54:45

Good question.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:48

So I do think some writers write better to specific ones, Right. Like that one Nightwing issue, I don't remember. That was Tom King, right? What issue is that? Do you know?

Will Rose: 00:55:03

No, it was Tom Taylor. And man, I forgot the artist.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:07

But yeah, this one digital though.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:55:10

Bruno, I think it was Bruno something. Let me look up.

Will Rose: 00:55:14

Yep, yep.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:15

My favorite thing reading this as a digital comic though was you pull it up, you, you know, you double tap. So you do panel by panel and you like swipe and like the way it's drawn makes you feel fast paced.

And then like actually doing the action made me like, I felt like I was running through the city and I'm like, that was made like that was made with this format in mind and it enhanced it. Another one, Mike Manola, he does a wonderful job with the Hellboy comics.

When you're sliding through panels where it's like all of a sudden we're gonna go to a half page. So you're going through panel by panel, reading a normal story and all of a sudden the monster's actually gonna just leap out at you right here.

And you're like, what?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:55:55

Yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:57

So some of the writers, without anything else in mind, just how you're gonna enjoy it. Some of them. Them make it wear. It's a really pleasurable experience to do it digitally.

Some of them are really good artists and it's just better to have that book. You know.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:56:12

The Nightwing artist is Bruno. Bruno Redondo.

Will Rose: 00:56:18

Yeah. An Eisner award winning. You know, the Eisner's are the Oscars for comics. So Eisner Award winning thing.

And Tom Taylor made me love Nightwing in a way that he's one of my favorite characters of all time.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:33

So good.

Will Rose: 00:56:35

But. And it's like, yeah. How do you consume these stories that you love? They're not going away.

People are going to continue to write and create stories with words and pictures. We've been doing it since cave drawings. Right. And iconography. It's going to happen. It's not going away. It's never going away.

But in terms of how you consume it and then being intentional, how you consume that with your local or digital is similar. How we do our faith, you know, in terms of like, how do we engage with community, how to do.

Do our own personal interior work by reading a book on our own by herself or. And then engage with community the same way in these geek communities. And how we engage comics is the same way we.

We do with our faith and other things. Like what. How are we going to be intentional and.

And educate ourselves and how this helps the environment, but also what edifies the community and greater good. Good for those relationships that we're entrusted with. So yeah, you think they're just comics and funny books and. Oh well. But no, there's.

There's intentionality about the communities we engage with and how it affects us internally and externally. So anyway, it's a deeper question and glad that we're having this and there to promote it and engage with it with others.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:49

Yeah, I think for me, the way I go about it, you know, know, amen to everything my pastor said, but also it depends on when and where I'm reading, what reason for it. Like I said, if it's a book that I'm like, I'm going to want to get this signed one day.

Obviously I'm going to get a physical copy, you know, if it's something that I'm just picking up because I enjoy the story and I don't particularly have an attachment to the writer or anything. Like, right now, I love Justice League Unlimited. I have no need to have those signed personally.

And I'm not going to drive an hour once a month to find my comic book shop, you know, so I'm like, hey, I'm fine just having this automatically download on my phone. I wake up early Thursday morning and go, huh, Heck yeah, flip through. It's a great time.

But if I also, during the summer, I buy a lot more physical because I'm like, I'm going to go to the pool. I'm going to read comics by the pool. And right now the glare is so bad. Like, I got to have a physical book.

Unless you get like the paper, soft color, soft Kindle or whatever, which apparently makes all the coloring look green. And I'm like, well, I kind of don't want that either. So I'm just going to buy a book and go to the Bull.

Will Rose: 00:59:00

Or. Or you meet Dan Moore or Mark Wade at HeroesCon or something like that.

And I'm gonna get you just League Unlimited number three with a full spread Swamp Thing that Dan Mora just drew. And you're like, that's the best Swamp Thing I've ever seen. Probably have to remind me then. Yeah, I will.

And then they're going to go get that paid sign that would do that. That is.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:25

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:59:26

Dan Moore. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:27

You know, it just kind of depends what you're doing for. I think be mindful.

If you're just filling up a lot of space with paper books, you probably could help the environment a little bit if you found some that you didn't mind getting electric, you know, ebook version of. But, you know, if you're trying to get stuff signed, you don't read that much. Especially if you don't read that much.

It really is better for the environment to just get a book at that point. So I don't know. There's definitely a both and there's good and bad of each side of this, I think. And read responsibly. Yeah, read. Collect responsibly.

Will Rose: 01:00:03

Collect responsibly.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:00:05

We need a shirt that says that, though. That's good.

Will Rose: 01:00:08

I love that. Read and collect. Responsibly.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:00:11

Responsibly. I like it. Yep. Very cool. Yeah, no, I just echo a lot of your thoughts there too. And I think that is.

Yeah, there's definitely a balance to be at and just. But it is definitely when you can, you know, support creators, support local businesses. But.

And like, you know, like we said too, there's different ways of having community. I think community is fundamental to just our existence, whether you're introverted or extroverted. And so it does not.

Community does not necessarily mean gathering in a huge crowd of people. You can have. Have deep, intimate connections with people online. That may be even better than a kind of people.

But then if you are inclined to go to conventions, go, because they are a great time. So it's. I think, yeah, this is a. It's being nuanced and looking at these things from a multifaceted perspective.

Joshua Noel: 01:01:04

One more quick word, because if you're like me and crowds freak you out, small groups isn't just a church thing. Even though, you know, Will did start, maybe he wants to talk about God Loves Geeks. And that's. That's kind of what started our whole show.

But also one of the things that's cool on regular ebooks that I haven't seen translated to comics yet that I would love to see if you're on Kindle or. I think Google Books does this as well. If a certain line is highlighted a lot, it'll let you know. So you have a little bit of community with that.

And I think it would be cool if you also could have your inner group like, hey, three of your friends liked this passage. You're like, oh, that's kind of cool. Let me text Will and say, hey, why did you like that?

You know, like, some of that interaction with the books is really cool that you can do digitally and it be automated. I haven't seen that translated to comics yet.

It'd be kind of cool if they like, I was reading my comic and it was like, like, Ryan Doe's liked this panel. And I'm like, yo, Ryan, I saw that. You know, that'd be really cool.

Will Rose: 01:02:01

It'd be nice. Yeah, God Loves Geeks is not a trademark thing that, that I own, but I it.

All this started because of a small group in my congregation in South Carolina where we were in the narthex after church going, what did you think of the new Marvel movie? What'd you think of this? And we were having conversations, like, let's have longer conversations.

Let's meet together in person and have like, A book club where we talk about the movies we're watching or a graphic novel or a book. And it became a God Loves Geeks books club. And so, yeah, start one in your own community.

It could be 2, 3, 4, 5 people that you just connect on, geeking out, whether it's Dungeons and Dragons or a fantasy novel or graphic novel or comics, and come together and have a discussion and create your own book club called God Loves Geeks. And you guys geek out on something and share what you're geeking out on and have a deeper discussion of why you resonate with that particular story.

And I love that. And that's kind of what started this here. And other things like Church the Geek and other places.

There's lots of things out there where people are geeking out on things and how do you connect and create community around that and friendships.

Joshua Noel: 01:03:14

The best thing is if you got three of you, then maybe one person collected all the single issues, physical copy, then one person did all the digital ones and then the other one has the graphic novel and you can bring them all together and coexist. Yeah.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:03:27

Sweet. Well, guys, this has been great. Just wrapping up.

Do you have a recommendation you want to share either related to this topic or something else entirely?

Joshua Noel: 01:03:39

I have also been rereading the current run of Swamp Thing. I've just discovered. I love Swamp Thing just as a character. I assumed he was just going to be the same thing as like Man Thing from Marvel.

He kind of is, but the character, wildly different, way better. Yeah. So I just recommend Swamp Thing, the character.

Will Rose: 01:04:00

Have you read Alan Moore's run? Read Alan Moore's run. I think you need to do this.

Joshua Noel: 01:04:05

I gotta catch up on that homework first. There's so much to read.

Will Rose: 01:04:09

Then go to Alan Moore, then go to Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing and you'll go, yeah, yeah. And I will say that Swan Thing just showed up in Justice League Unlimited that we're just talking about reading with Mark Wade and Dan Mora.

So him showing up at the last three pages of the current run on Justice League Unlimited is pretty good. So I hope they keep running with that. But yeah, I guess those are my recommendations.

There's a bunch of comics that I'm reading if you like the latest Loki series on Disney and the TVA time variant. There's a new comic, tva, that is running and issue two just came out this past week and I'm reading.

So if you like that in the Disney plus streaming series, there's a graphic novel or slash comic coming out With TVA Day, it's going to be a lot of fun.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:05:05

Nice. And I'll recommend actually a website.

One of my favorite geek websites is Den of Geek, which was, I think this started out in the UK and they have contributors kind of all over, but it's one of my favorites because I really like the thought they put into their articles and a lot of them are more essay and feature oriented and it's not clickbait. And they in addition to the website obviously which is free, they also have quarterly magazine that you can subscribe to so you get copies of that.

And in every issue they highlight a different comic shop or a different like geek business and stuff, which is really cool. So they always have a feature on that. So I really love supporting them.

They have a really great team of writers and digital media people there and the magazines are always really gorgeous. So I. I like the just kind of community aspect that they have there as well.

Joshua Noel: 01:05:58

I'm going to cheat and add one more recommendation because will reminded me something earlier how like some artists are releasing stuff just directly online for you to do. And this is like a vague recommendation.

But a lot of why MANWA is starting to catch on and not just manga is because artists are able to do this where they're online releasing a page at a time or a page or two at a time.

And we're getting some pretty cool stories that I haven't been reading myself that I get to hear TJ and them talk about because people have been reading MANWA online. So you guys keep doing that so I can hear other people tell me what the story was. Nice.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:06:38

I love it. Sweet. Well guys, this has been a very fun way to spend a Friday night. I. I enjoyed this discussion early.

So yeah, if you I want to thank again all of our listeners and viewers out there. Please like us on YouTube. Subscribe. You can also support us on Patreon Connect us. Connect with us on Discord we are all over so.

And leave us a review. It always really helps and we appreciate your support. And remember we are all a chosen people. A dum of priests.