In Anticipation of Superman (2025): A Deep Dive into the Animated Classic
Systematic Geekology engages in a profound exploration of "Superman: The Animated Series," a seminal show that debuted in 1996, coinciding with the imminent release of "Superman (2025)," written and directed by James Gunn. In this discourse, we, Christian Ashley and Kevin Schaeffer, delve into the intricate narrative and thematic elements of the animated series, assessing its enduring relevance and substantial influence on contemporary portrayals of the iconic character. Our dialogue underscores the series' pivotal role in shaping the modern understanding of Superman, particularly in light of Gunn's admiration for its foundational contributions to the superhero genre. As we navigate the complexities of Superman's character—his moral dilemmas, relationships, and the challenges of being a beacon of hope—we reflect on how these themes resonate within the broader context of the upcoming film. Join us as we celebrate a hallmark of animated storytelling that continues to inspire and inform the legacy of one of comic history's most enduring heroes.
The discussion commences with an enthusiastic examination of Superman: The Animated Series, a hallmark of 1990s animation that left an indelible mark on superhero storytelling. The hosts, Kevin Schaefer and Christian Ashley, delve into the series' significance, not merely as entertainment but as a cultural phenomenon that shaped the depiction of Superman and his universe. They reflect on their personal experiences with the show, illustrating how it forged their understanding of the character and introduced them to a plethora of themes including identity, morality, and the concept of heroism. The duo articulates a deep appreciation for the series' ability to humanize Superman, portraying him not only as an invincible hero but as a figure grappling with the complexities of his Kryptonian heritage and his role as a protector of Earth. The series' voice cast, particularly Tim Daly as Superman and Clancy Brown as Lex Luthor, is heralded for bringing depth to their characters, with the hosts noting how Brown's portrayal of Lex Luthor has become the definitive interpretation in the minds of many fans. They emphasize the show's influence on contemporary portrayals of the character, particularly in light of the upcoming Superman film directed by James Gunn, which draws heavily from the rich legacy established by this animated series.
Takeaways:
- The profound influence of 'Superman: The Animated Series' on contemporary superhero narratives cannot be overstated, as it laid foundational elements that resonate in modern adaptations.
- A salient theme within the series revolves around Superman's dual identity, exploring the complexities of his alien heritage juxtaposed against his human upbringing.
- The character of Lex Luthor is meticulously crafted, portraying him not merely as a villain but as a complex figure whose motivations challenge Superman's ideals.
- The series effectively emphasizes the moral responsibilities associated with power, a recurring theme that remains relevant in discussions surrounding heroism in contemporary society.
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Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:This is systematic ecology.
Speaker A:We are the priest of the geeks.
Speaker A:I am Kevin Schaefer here with one of my favorite geekologists, Christian Ashley.
Speaker A:Christian Bizarro.
Speaker A:Christian, how are you today?
Speaker B:Me am sad.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I like if you talk like that the entire episode.
Speaker A:I think that would be really impressive.
Speaker A:If you talk, try to talk like Bizarro and I'll try to talk like Clarkhead Superman.
Speaker A:I think it would be really entertaining, but also it might drive you crazy a little bit.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think I'm done after this.
Speaker A:But great intro, though.
Speaker A:So, yeah, so, yes, we are.
Speaker A:For anyone who lives under a rock, you know, there is a new Superman movie coming out this week.
Speaker A:You may have heard me and Christian talk about it a little bit in the last few months to a year and we could not be more excited.
Speaker A:And so with that in mind, we are talking today about the classic Superman, the animated series from the 90s.
Speaker A:We're going to be doing a deep dive into that and talking about it in the context of when it was created to what it's like now, its relevance and especially its influence on the upcoming Superman movie.
Speaker A: s and: Speaker A:So very excited to get into this series.
Speaker A:But Christian, before we do that, let us do the.
Speaker A:What are we geeking out on?
Speaker A:So what else are you geeking out on right now?
Speaker B:Yeah, I just read not too long ago the first issue of the new Captain America run by Chip Zdarsky.
Speaker B:It's a pretty promising.
Speaker B:There are some concerns, but, you know, I'm ready to see what he cooks with it.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:I like.
Speaker B:Hey, Evan.
Speaker A:Oh, and Evan's here.
Speaker A:Hey, Evan, how's it going?
Speaker A:But yeah, awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, on my end, not too much different from, you know, I know we just recorded on Sunday the Peter David episode, so not too much.
Speaker A:I haven't been to say, like, pretty much all Superman stuff.
Speaker A:But yeah, I mean, I'm still, I'm going through Superman and Lois again, obviously, this series we're talking about today.
Speaker A:I still love the DC Studios showcase podcast that I cannot recommend enough.
Speaker A:And they actually just put out an interview with David Coren Sweat and Nicholas Holt.
Speaker A:So highly recommend that.
Speaker A:Outside of that, I did check out the Ironheart pilot.
Speaker A:I enjoyed it and I've heard some really big.
Speaker A:I haven't watched the rest of the series yet.
Speaker A:I know it's pretty short, but I heard some really big things about the finale.
Speaker A:I haven't looked into yet.
Speaker A:So I'll probably be watching that either later this week or weekend because I think it's only like five or six episodes.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Which is my only.
Speaker A:I know we.
Speaker A:I know we've.
Speaker A:We've griped about this before, and I agree that shows are way too short these days, but.
Speaker A:But, you know, but I. I thought the intro was solid, so I'm looking forward to getting back into that.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I need to watch that, too.
Speaker B:It's just don't care about her character and the comics, and it's going to be hard to convince me to watch the show.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm gonna watch the show.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:Are they gonna convert me or not?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, like, because it.
Speaker A:Wasn't it Bendis who wrote the original run?
Speaker B:I think so, yes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So, yeah, like, Bendis writing is very hit or miss for me.
Speaker A:I'm not a Venice hater and not a Venice.
Speaker A:Like, oh, my gosh, I love everything he does.
Speaker A:So I have not read the original yet, but.
Speaker A:But I do think the actor is really strong.
Speaker A:I think it's kind of fun.
Speaker A:Not quite coming of age, but a little bit of that.
Speaker A:And then just, you know, this element of Iron Man Successor, it's got some fun stuff in there, and I like the cast.
Speaker A:So it's, you know, so far, the pilot was enjoyable, but, yeah, awesome.
Speaker A:All right, well, before we get into our main topic for our viewers, listeners out there, please, like, rate, subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker A:If you're on YouTub, please hit that like button and subscribe again.
Speaker A:We say it every time, but if we get 50 likes on any episode, Will Rose will film himself doing something to the effect of either frolicking through a field of flowers, or he might, you know, give us an inside look at his geek cave, his Fortress of solitude.
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Speaker A:So thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker B:Someone who's been in Will's house.
Speaker B:It's a pretty impressive collection.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, like, I.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:You know, it would be actually a fun.
Speaker A:Maybe we can even add to this.
Speaker A:I would be fully willing to.
Speaker A:I mean, I know I'm in my key cave right now anyway, but it's only a portion of it.
Speaker A:I would be more than happy to.
Speaker A:I know while I cannot run through my geek cave, I can certainly, you know, I can actually.
Speaker A:I show my robot arm, you know, running, swinging around and you know, taking a tour through my geek cave.
Speaker A:I would be more than happy to do that too.
Speaker A:So if you want to see any glimpses of our various geek caves from all the hosts on the show, hit that like button.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, so I'm very excited to get into this topic today.
Speaker A: s, early: Speaker A:And this for me was just peak DC Batman, the animated Series Superman the Animated Series Batman Beyond Justice League, Justice League Unlimited Static Shock these.
Speaker A:It was just one hit after another.
Speaker A: eries today, which debuted in: Speaker A:It ran 54 episodes.
Speaker A:It starred Tim Daly as the voice of Superman, Dana Delany as Lois Lane, Clancy Brown as Lex Luthor, and was co created by Bruce Kim, who of course was a pioneer of Batman, the Animated Series and the entirety of the DC Animated Universe, you know.
Speaker A:And Kristen, what do you want to say about just kind of an overview of the series before we get into our specific thoughts?
Speaker A:An overview.
Speaker A:And I've also got some tidbits about how it originated as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I remember being super excited as a kid when I saw this coming up.
Speaker B:My dad over the years and Cartoon Network at that time I think was starting to show more super friends and some of the older 60s Superman cartoons and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And dad has always been the guys like taping other stuff from back in the day.
Speaker B:And he showed me some of the, I think the cartoon from the 80s that had Superman in it and now there was going to be a brand new one.
Speaker B:It was going to be my Superman.
Speaker B:And as someone who really grew up loving Batman, the Animated Series is like, oh man.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:More please.
Speaker B:More superheroes.
Speaker B:I love my crossovers.
Speaker B:I love to see them hanging out with each other in the same world.
Speaker B:And Superman showed up.
Speaker B:I'm like, man, this is, he seems kind of weak, but he's still Superman.
Speaker B:It's like that was an intentional thing they did as they nerfed him a little bit because Superman is really overpowered.
Speaker B:And so this is a Superman not in his prime yet.
Speaker B:He's learning.
Speaker B:Not in the same way he is in my adventures with Superman.
Speaker B:He's Got a little more prep.
Speaker B:I say more street cred, I guess, growing up.
Speaker B:But, like, he's learning things.
Speaker B:He's figuring things out.
Speaker B:How to be a better superhero, how strong he actually is, how to use his superpowers.
Speaker B:Well, it was great.
Speaker B:I love this show.
Speaker B:It's a ton of fun.
Speaker B:Like, to this day, you mentioned Clancy Brown, Lex Luthor.
Speaker B:That's the only Lex Luthor I know.
Speaker B:When I hear that voice.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, Smallville, Michael Rosenbaum, it does a great job.
Speaker B:But when I think of Lex Luthor when I'm reading a comic, it's Clancy Brown's voice that I hear.
Speaker B:That's what I say.
Speaker B:It's Christopher David Barnes's voice I hear when I read Spider Man.
Speaker B:They do a tremendous job here.
Speaker B:And I know in Justice League, they changed the voice actor for Superman.
Speaker B:I think it's George Norton or something like that.
Speaker A:George Newburn.
Speaker A:And I learned that recently.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was just because of scheduling conflicts with Tim Daly.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:No, it wasn't any bitterness or anything like that.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:He had some other projects, so it was a very amicable thing.
Speaker A:Because I wondered that, too.
Speaker A:Like, because for the longest time, I thought they were the same because they sound so alike.
Speaker A:I didn't even know growing up that it was different actors.
Speaker A:But, yeah, when I listened to the audiobook of Superman beyond, our authorized biography, which is actually narrated by George Newbern, there's a section about that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, this is a really fun show.
Speaker B:One of the things I really appreciate about this is I think it turned a lot of people away from the bad idea that I think we all get into at some point.
Speaker B:It's like, superman's boring.
Speaker B:He's just a big old big blue boy Scout.
Speaker B:Like, there's not interesting.
Speaker B:It's like, no, I think a good litmus test for people is that you go through that phase and then you grow out of it and go, no, Superman's the guy we need.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's overpowered compared to a lot of heroes, but, like, he's who we should be looking up to.
Speaker B:In the same way that, you know, Captain America is pretty much like the heart and soul of the Marvel Universe.
Speaker B:Superman is the heart and soul of the DC Universe.
Speaker B:Like, both men, you look up to them for similar reasons.
Speaker B:And if you don't like Superman, I'm not saying you're a bad person, but saying you have some bad takes.
Speaker A:No, absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, I run into so many people over the years who are like, he's Just like, too good, too all powerful.
Speaker A:And I think you're missing the point of Superman when you have that assumption, because there are so many stories that emphasize the human side of him and that he is not infallible by any means.
Speaker A:And if you dig into some of the best superhero Superman stories, you'll see these really rich, rich characterization.
Speaker A:You realize that he has strengths and weaknesses, and this show is, I think, one of the best depictions of that.
Speaker A:Also, since you brought up Lex Luthor.
Speaker A:Fun fact there is that Clancy Brown originally auditioned for Superman for this series and reluctantly took the role of Lex Luthor, which, funnily enough, the same thing.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say reluctantly in this case, but the same thing happened with Nicholas Hoult in the new Superman movie.
Speaker A:He auditioned for Superman actually on the same day as David Gordon Sweat.
Speaker A:They were on an interview recently on Jimmy Kimmel.
Speaker A:It was Diego Luna guest hosting, which.
Speaker A:Check out that interview.
Speaker A:It's just like the ultimate crossover there.
Speaker A:Diego Luna interviewing David Corn Sweat and Nicholas Holt.
Speaker A:But Nicholas Holt auditioned for Superman that day.
Speaker A:And then when he met David Corn Sweat, he was like, yeah, that guy's born to play Kal El.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:And, you know, and then.
Speaker A:And then he was still elated to accept the role of Lex Luthor.
Speaker A:But I find it funny that, you know, there was a parallel here.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it.
Speaker A:But it is just a brilliant voice cast all around, brilliant animation, and a little bit about the origin of the series.
Speaker A:So obviously, Batman and the Animated Series had a profound impact on pop culture in the 90s and still does today.
Speaker A:It's, you know, still regarded as the best Batman adaptation of all time.
Speaker A:And so at this point, you know, by 96, Warner Brothers was pushing for a Superman series because of the upcoming Superman movie that never happened.
Speaker A:If you want a whole.
Speaker A:There are infinite podcasts and articles and stories on that.
Speaker A:There's actually a whole documentary.
Speaker A:The death of Superman Lives.
Speaker A:What happened?
Speaker A:This was the famous Tim Burton Superman movie with Nicolas Cage.
Speaker A:That never happened, sadly, because I really.
Speaker A:I could live in an alternate universe where I could see that movie.
Speaker A:I wish I could, but.
Speaker A:But they were.
Speaker A:You know, this series was developed in order to help coincide with and promote that movie.
Speaker A:So it is ironic that that movie never happened.
Speaker A:But thankfully, we got this series nonetheless.
Speaker A:And at that point, Bruce Tim had gone on to actually have meetings with Steven Spielberg about developing an animated series because Spielberg was impressed with his work on Batman, the Animated series that eventually turned into.
Speaker A:I think it's called Freakazoid.
Speaker A:It was like, which Bruce Tim had involvement with.
Speaker A:He ended up just getting kind.
Speaker A:He had a different pitch originally for what he wanted to be.
Speaker A:And then, you know, visions collided and they changed, so he didn't stay on the show for long.
Speaker A:And then once he was freed up, Warner Brothers came back to him and asked him to develop Superman.
Speaker A:So, you know, thank God he was available, because I can't imagine anyone else helming not only this series, but the rest of the DC Animated Universe.
Speaker A:Even though it was not planned on being this interconnected universe from the beginning, it just started off as Batman.
Speaker A:I am so glad that it did evolve into this wonderful, rich, interconnected universe.
Speaker A:And Superman is a great addition to that.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, so Bruce Cam, Paul Dini, a lot of these same creators from Batman, the Animated Series came on to work on Superman.
Speaker A: Max Fleischer cartoons of the: Speaker A:I think you can still probably see those somewhere, probably on YouTube or maybe physical copies.
Speaker A:Yeah, or they may be physical copies.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:You know, that was an iconic Superman adaptation back at that time and had a profound impact on the comics and on the radio serials, the movie serials, all of that.
Speaker A:And, you know, originally they were trying to model it after that, but then they decided, no, we kind of need to do something different and we need to make it, you know, like something.
Speaker A:They drew a lot of inspiration from the John Byrne man of Steel series, which was the.
Speaker A:At that time, the freshest retelling of Superman's origin.
Speaker A:So that became a huge impact.
Speaker A:And then also, like, with the aesthetic of Batman, the Animated Series, I think they did want it to kind of fit into that world.
Speaker A:And so they have the art deco style here.
Speaker A:And, you know, I mean, just look at that image right there.
Speaker A:I think, you know, they could not have come up with a better version that fit both the modern era, but also called, you know, derived inspiration from the classic Superman art, illustrations, cartoons.
Speaker A:And so, you know, you get this version.
Speaker A:I think it fits seamlessly in with the rest of the DC Animated Universe.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, but I am.
Speaker A:But I always find it funny that, like, yeah, it was developed as almost a promotion for the Superman movie that never happened.
Speaker A:And it would then still take almost, actually a full.
Speaker A: Animated series premiered in: Speaker A: man movie didn't happen until: Speaker A: Was it: Speaker A:I. I wanna.
Speaker A:I want to say it was 06, because I was in sixth grade at the time.
Speaker A:I Remember, because I saw it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So a full decade later, we would finally get another Superman movie.
Speaker A:It was a long road to that.
Speaker A:And there were a number of projects that almost happened and were then abandoned.
Speaker A:So it's a fascinating transition there.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But we did get, you know, 54 episodes of this series and I think it still really holds up.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that is a little bit of a history and going into what the series is and looking at, you know, some of the big ideas portrayed in the series and how it's picked Superman in the DC universe.
Speaker A:Christian, what were some of the biggest themes of the series that really stood out to you?
Speaker B:A huge part of this is Clark, like, learning who he is.
Speaker B:What does it mean to be this Kryptonian, not born on Earth, but pretty much adopted by Earth through extra normal means coming here because he's not like everyone else and yet he does look pretty similar to everyone else.
Speaker B:So it's enough for him to fit in that way.
Speaker B:But he's also got this huge responsibility that comes from having two really great adopted parents who instill these intensely amazing moral values into him to be the better man to guide someone who could have easily ended up way worse.
Speaker B:To the point where we have 50 billion evil Superman knockoffs to this day across multiple media, which is a huge problem.
Speaker B:But that's a separate issue.
Speaker B:But to then this humble guy who just wants to help people and look after them well also, like have a career and the girl of his dreams.
Speaker B:And Lois Lane, who Lois Lane in this series is tremendous.
Speaker B:They do a great job with her.
Speaker B:But like learning what does it mean to be this human.
Speaker B:But actually I'm really a Kryptonian.
Speaker B:But I want to be with these people who've adopted me as their own and watch out for them and pay back what's been given to me.
Speaker B:And at the same time, what does it mean to be like this hero and have people looking up to you?
Speaker B:What does it mean when you fail them?
Speaker B:What does it mean at the very end of the series, people really lose their faith in Superman because of what Darkseid does to him.
Speaker B:And having him attack the Earth and pretty much take it over in his name.
Speaker B:That's dealt with as they eventually do get to the Justice League cartoon.
Speaker B:He's still dealing with the after effects of that, but it and how much it wounds him because that's not who he wants to be.
Speaker B:He wants to be someone people look up to.
Speaker B:Amongst other things, we have greed and power that come in through our Lex Luthor Figures and other villains as well who are in it for the money or just doing it to have people respect them.
Speaker B:And how that of kind contrasts with Superman's more humble nature of.
Speaker B:Lex Luthor.
Speaker B:Could never imagine that Clark Kent could actually be Superman, because why would a God debase himself to the form of a human?
Speaker B:Especially a reporter who doesn't get paid as much as anyone else.
Speaker B:Like, it's a great contrast between the two of them.
Speaker B:I'm going to stop before I take away more of your opportunities to talk about stuff.
Speaker A:No, absolutely.
Speaker A:Those are.
Speaker A:I mean, I totally agree with all that.
Speaker A:And then, you know, another thing is, like, one of the villains that I forgot was in this series until doing a rewatch was Livewire.
Speaker A:And that opened doors for, you know, looking at the jealousy that a lot of the characters had towards Superman.
Speaker A:Even though, like you said, he is a humble one.
Speaker A:He's not in it for the fame and the glory.
Speaker A:He's just like, here to help people.
Speaker A:But still they.
Speaker A:Some of the villains originated from this desire or this, like, greed and jealousy because they saw him getting all the glory and getting all the praise.
Speaker A:And, you know, they wanted to establish names for themselves as well and get, you know, and are like.
Speaker A:And they're like, you know, what's so great about the big blue guy over there?
Speaker A:You know, he's just like.
Speaker A:It's almost like the cynicism, some of the villains out here is mirrored within a lot of the cynicism that people have towards Superman today.
Speaker A:Not calling those people villains, but I'm just saying that.
Speaker A:But that's what, you know, they definitely draw that idea of, you know, what makes Superman relevant and, you know, you know, and using that as kind of a catalyst to build on some of the villain themes here, which I found really interesting because it's that, you know, one of the things that made Batman the Animated Series so iconic was he of course, has one of the best rogues galleries in all of comics.
Speaker A:And, you know, it was so easy to draw.
Speaker A:And they also created characters for the series, so they just had an infinite number of characters to work with.
Speaker A:Superman, admittedly has, you know, some great villains, obviously, like Luther Brainiac, Metallo Mixes Spitalic.
Speaker A:But for the most part, he has a.
Speaker A:And I'll tell you, I'll get to that episode because that is like, there is a great Mixes Piddle episode written by Paul Dini, but for the most part, his rogues gallery is a little smaller.
Speaker A:And so it's harder to, in some ways to come up with fresh Ideas and characters that make for interesting counterparts to Superman.
Speaker A:But I do think they do a really good job here and they have villains with different motivations and different backstories that make for some great storylines.
Speaker A:So, yeah, there's all of that.
Speaker A:And like you said, too, this is one of my favorite depictions of Lois Lane.
Speaker A:The voice actor is fantastic, and I love how they give her just the personality that makes Lois such an iconic character in all of fiction.
Speaker A:She's not the.
Speaker A:Even though you see that image of, you know, Superman rescuing her, she does that a lot.
Speaker A:But nonetheless, she's not a damsel in distress.
Speaker A:She's very fierce, independent.
Speaker A:She is, you know, the journalist that Clark is enamored with and Superman is enamored with.
Speaker A:And, you know, she.
Speaker A:A lot of storylines revolve around her not as a plot device, but as central to the story.
Speaker A:And I just love, you know, the depiction here that, you know, it very much draws on a lot of inspiration, I think, from Margot Kidder's performance in the Christopher Reeve films, but it also really, Dana Delany really infuses her with her own identity here as well.
Speaker A:And I just love the seamless interaction between these characters.
Speaker A:Jimmy Olsen as well, It's a great portrayal of the whole Daily Planet staff.
Speaker A:You just can't get him better.
Speaker A:And seeing all the trailers for the James Gunn movie, I just see so much of this cast brought to life in that, and I cannot be more excited for those things.
Speaker A:So, yeah, all of those themes really play a central part.
Speaker A:There are, you know, darker storylines, more light hearted stuff.
Speaker A:And like Batman, the Animated Series, overall, it's more episodic, but there are still kind of overarching narratives that have a lot of payoff.
Speaker A:And like you said, in particular, the kind of cliffhanger ending of the series.
Speaker A:Originally, that was not the intention.
Speaker A:They were going to do another full season, but they got cut short and.
Speaker A:But because the DC Animated universe went on like you said, they were able to resolve that storyline in Justice League years later in a really effective way and, you know, still build on the character of Superman, the repercussions of the dark side storyline.
Speaker A:So I really like how they do all of that.
Speaker B:The Livewire episode made me remember too that it's not a huge focus of the series, but I do a little bit of focusing on how media affects people because she's a kind of a shock jock dj, very opinionated.
Speaker B:That's become far more popular in a different way through, you know, more podcasting and 24hour news stations of all different stripes of the political spectrum.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And how, like, you have a voice and how you choose to use that voice.
Speaker B:She uses it to break down like the greatest guy who ever lived because of stuff like jealousy of stuff like, well, what about, if I had that power?
Speaker B:What would I do with it?
Speaker B:And not everyone's going to be Clark Kent.
Speaker B:And that's one thing you learn along the way in the series is that some people, in many respects, I mean, it doesn't focus on responsibility in the same way that Spider man does, but there's a bit of, like, with great power, there must become great responsibility because not everyone's going to turn out like Superman just because you've been gifted with these great abilities.
Speaker B:You have your metallos, you have, oh, goodness gracious, who else in the Parasite using their things for their own gain.
Speaker B:And you have Luthor, who's like, I'd never deign to debase myself by giving myself powers in that way, But I'm going to use my money and resources to have this super cool armor or use this new technology to try to take down Superman or investigate this kryptonite thing.
Speaker B:And how, going back to the media thing, how he is publicly perceived that this really great figure and Clark knows who he really is, Lois knows who really is.
Speaker B:But even they are kind of not helpless.
Speaker B:But they need proof.
Speaker B:They can't just print Lex Luthor is a bad man.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's objectively true.
Speaker B:But you need to, like, have proof to say that, because he could sue the heck out of them if they did that.
Speaker B:They need the show and expose him for who he really is.
Speaker B:And it's a slow process, but eventually along the way, I mean, including Injustice League, he is broken a little bit more.
Speaker A:And, you know, one of the reasons I love that this version of Lex and also Smallville's portrayed by Michael Rosenbaum.
Speaker A:Rosenbaum are.
Speaker A:You know, my.
Speaker A:Two of my favorite depictions of Lex Luthor is, you know, you think about the Christopher Reeve movie, and I love Gene Hackman's performance there, and I love the depiction there, but he's sort of just like, you know, just an obvious villain there.
Speaker A:It's not that hard to prove why he's the bad guy.
Speaker A:He's just like, he's, you know, not only ruthless in the first appearance, we see him in the mov, but.
Speaker A:But, I mean, he's outright just saying, oh, I'm evil.
Speaker A:I want to, you know, I'm be a real estate mogul who wants to take over into Mossing this version of Lex is obviously a cold and calculating Shakespearean villain, but, you know, he sees himself as the hero.
Speaker A:He is the.
Speaker A:Like him.
Speaker A:Michael Rosenbaum's portrayal, they're the tech bro supervillains here, which, I mean, I know that's hard to relate to in this day and age.
Speaker A:You know, tech bro as the bad guy.
Speaker A:Oh, how is that imaginable?
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But, you know, he sees himself as the savior, using his intellect to develop new technologies and better humanity and create.
Speaker A:Try to create this utopian society.
Speaker A:Obviously, he's very misguided, and we know that.
Speaker A:And he uses corruption and, you know, dastardly techniques, and he's so sinister.
Speaker A:But again, in his mind, he is the hero, and Superman is an interruption and an obstacle to everything.
Speaker A:He's trying to do.
Speaker A:Clancy Brown's performance, like.
Speaker A:And it is so funny trying to imagine what he would sound like a Superman.
Speaker A:I mean, he's one of my favorite actors, so I think he could do amazing things.
Speaker A:But I3 he was just born to play Lex in the series.
Speaker A:He has the perfect voice for it, the mannerisms, and he just.
Speaker A:It imbues the character with that sinister Persona without it ever being cartoonish.
Speaker A:I know that's ironic, say, this being a cartoon, but he does.
Speaker A:He brings like, a.
Speaker A:Just this realistic Shakespearean depiction of the character that I love and, you know, makes you so immersed and you want to know.
Speaker A:And like, you said it, because he's not, you know, immediately like, oh, he's the villain.
Speaker A:Like, he's so easy to prove.
Speaker A:Lois and Clark have to really work as journalists and to really, you know, pull back the curtain and expose him for who he is.
Speaker A:Because for a lot of the time, in the public's eye, he is a hero.
Speaker A:And he, you know, has done amazing things and believes that he has humanity's best interests at our.
Speaker A:So I love how it explores those themes and makes him such a compelling villain throughout.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, they do a tremendous job with Lex.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, the other thing, too, is, like, you know, going back to Gene Hackman's is Gene Hackman's.
Speaker A:Lex is surrounded by idiots in the movie, whereas, like, in the animated series, they created Mercy Graves for the show, and she is just as cold and sinister as him.
Speaker A:And so I love it that, you know, he's surrounding himself with people who he knows are going to help advance his goals and, you know, BJ and, you know, and also.
Speaker A:So one of my favorite.
Speaker A:Well, I guess so was the Superman Batman movie.
Speaker A:Like, I watched that on vhs, you know, Repeatedly as a kid.
Speaker A:Did it.
Speaker A:I can't remember if it originated as episodes from Superman or from Episodes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That's all, guys.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So compiled it together for a movie because they've got three, two.
Speaker B:Three episodes.
Speaker B:Enough to make a movie, so might as well.
Speaker A:Right, right, right.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:And I bring that up because I love the interactions between Lex and Joker in that series.
Speaker A:Like, where, oh, it's so fantastic.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, it's.
Speaker A:You know, you have the voice talents of Nancy Brown and Mark Hamill working with another.
Speaker A:It's just, you know, you know, pure cinema.
Speaker A:Oh, it's exquisite.
Speaker A:But also, I love how Lex is just viewing Joker as a complete, you know, incompetent clown, despite all the horrible things he's done.
Speaker A:He, you know, he's like, what makes you think you can kill Superman if you can't even catch a man in a Halloween costume?
Speaker A:You know, like.
Speaker A:And I, you know, I love their reluctant partnership in that dichotomy.
Speaker A:So it's just.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's one of my favorite depictions of, like, love Lex, and it's what makes the series so strong throughout.
Speaker A:Analysis as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I love the relationship in general.
Speaker B:Lex and Joker, because they're diametrically opposed in every way possible.
Speaker B:Except for the fact that they both hate heroes in different ways.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:It's gotten to the point where in the comics, like.
Speaker B:Like, if Lex Luthor is ever having, like, his big get the Secret Society of Villains or the Doom, Legion of Doom or whatever together, he always invites the Joker, knowing he's a wild card.
Speaker B:But it's better to invite the Joker on your team than to not invite the Joker and have him pissed off at you.
Speaker B:So in trying to thwart your plans.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's like controlling that chaos is something he's had to learn along the way.
Speaker B:And it backfires on him, too, later on in the Justice League where Joker goes wild again and Batman has to mess with people in his own way.
Speaker B:And yeah, I love.
Speaker B:It's not trying to think how many times they've actually teamed up together in the comics.
Speaker B:It's few and far between, as I can recall.
Speaker B:I haven't read every action comics, adventure comics, and Batman detective comics ever.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But I can't think it's only happened a couple of times.
Speaker B:But like, the series proper that we're discussing, like, they do a really good job there of.
Speaker B:It's like, why these people are competent in their own way, but also why they keep screwing themselves over too.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's a hard thing to do.
Speaker A:It's like when they did the big villain team up in Justice League, like, with the original Legion of Doom.
Speaker A:It could have been so campy.
Speaker A:But, like, that's some of my favorite episodes in that series.
Speaker A:Well, we need.
Speaker A:We need to do a Justice League and Justice League Unlimited episode at another time because there's so much to delve in there.
Speaker A:But yeah, so obviously Lex, Lois, and Clark, you know, obviously the central main characters and some of our favorites.
Speaker A:Who are some of your other favorite characters, be they, you know, side villains or supporting protagonists?
Speaker A:Do you have any other favorite characters here?
Speaker B:This is a rough one because there's a lot to choose from.
Speaker A:There are a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm gonna choose Steel for mine.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This was my introduction to the character, and then later on realizing, oh, wait a second, that's Wharf.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's talking as this good guy on here.
Speaker B:And I say Wharf is a bad guy, but, like, it's a different.
Speaker B:Different from next generation to watching him in voice acting.
Speaker B:And, like, he's got a cool costume, armor.
Speaker B:He's wielding the giant hammer, you know, of course, calling back to the John Henry legend of American folklore.
Speaker B:And I loved his introductory episode.
Speaker B:He's such a cool guy.
Speaker B:It's like, I was like.
Speaker B:As a kid, I was like, man, I'm watching someone cool on screen.
Speaker B:I'm gonna keep using that word cool, because that's how I feel about him.
Speaker B:Like, he's never been, like, the biggest character in comics ever or even in dcau, but his introduction worked perfectly for me on the hero side of things.
Speaker B:Villains, I mean, direct opposite.
Speaker B:We got Lobo and.
Speaker A:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:Chaos personified in a different way than the Joker.
Speaker B:Like, he's trying to just prove himself.
Speaker B:This big, boisterous guy who's like, can match Superman equally on a.
Speaker B:In a fight.
Speaker B:And just them interacting with one another is a lot of fun because he gets on Superman's nerves real easy, and it' very hard to do that.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:But Lobo can bring that out of him.
Speaker B:So it's nice to see a Superman who can't compose himself and has to learn how to deal with this idiot who's also a genius and a great fighter at the same time, and how they can get out of situations together.
Speaker A:Well, and also, my family and I are big.
Speaker A:Everybody.
Speaker A:Everybody Loves Raymond fans.
Speaker A:Like, that's one of our favorite sitcoms.
Speaker A:And Brad Garrett, who played Robert, was the voice of Lobo, and he was just.
Speaker A:It's perfect.
Speaker A:Voice this show as a whole, just like Andrea Romano is that we.
Speaker A:We have to mention her name.
Speaker A:She is the unsung hero of the DC Cinematic Universe and just animation in general, you could not have.
Speaker A:I mean, we have her to thank for Kevin Conroy and Tim Daly and everyone else throughout these series.
Speaker A:She was an absolute legend working on these.
Speaker A:So, yeah, just thank praise Andrea Romano for giving us like all these wonderful actors.
Speaker A:But yeah, both great picks and I would say if you love Steel, watch Superman and Lois because they gave give a great depiction of him.
Speaker A:Johnny Henry Irons.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's fantastic there.
Speaker A:But yeah, so those also are two of my favorites, I would say, in addition to that.
Speaker A:So Jimmy Olsen, obviously, I think this is one of the great depictions of him.
Speaker A:Not just his comic relief, but it's just like the look, the voice, everything like he plays.
Speaker A:So it's such an integral part of the Daily Planet crew there.
Speaker A:So I love seeing him anytime he's on an episode.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And as far as other villains, I really like Parasite and how he's portrayed here.
Speaker A:Both the like, look here and he's, I think, a little more sympathetic in a way.
Speaker A:It's like, you know, he's not so much like bent on global destruction or anything like that.
Speaker A:He gets kind of like screwed over in his accident and.
Speaker A:And he makes a.
Speaker A:He's in some really great episodes.
Speaker A:So I like what they do with him here.
Speaker A:And then, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, Livewire I really enjoyed because again, that was one I kind of forgotten about out.
Speaker A:And I really like what they do with her here.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then, of course, dark side.
Speaker A:Just because this was our introduction to him.
Speaker A:Through him.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:Oh, and like.
Speaker A:And again, going back to the.
Speaker A:While, you know, there's a lot of like episodic while I'm working the series.
Speaker A:Darkseid was teased at the end of season one here.
Speaker A:So they were bringing him in and I, you know, wag.
Speaker A:You know, I don't think they knew that what the DC universe would evolve into, that they would get to do Justice League and just eliminate.
Speaker A:And he would be an integral part of that.
Speaker A:But Michael Ironside as the voice there, they could just not have cast it better.
Speaker A:I just love the physique, the all power, you know, just how much he poses a threat to Superman.
Speaker A:It's fantastic.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So yeah, those are some of my favorites.
Speaker A:And yeah, yeah, Livewire.
Speaker B:Livewire is basically this shows Harley Quinn and that invented for the show then becomes part of the comics.
Speaker B:Not as.
Speaker B:As popular as her, obviously.
Speaker B:But enough popularity to become part of the.
Speaker B:Can some of the other opposed to the other original characters that make for this series then Darkseid, of course.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, you want to talk about the Big Bad.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, Einstein, there's a magnificent voice work here.
Speaker B:This man is a menace.
Speaker B:And all you have to do is hear him speak like.
Speaker B:Or his hand behind his back.
Speaker B:I was used to the older 80s portrayals.
Speaker B:I think it was the Superpowers series.
Speaker B:And in that dark side is like really fixated on getting Wonder Woman to love him and marry him and all this other wacky nonsense.
Speaker B:But like seeing this one as opposed to that one as a kid, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I don't want to go up against that guy.
Speaker B:Like, this is man is a throw.
Speaker B:And they do a great work with him in this one in Justice League later on.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, you can only say Chef.
Speaker B:Chef's kiss so many times for the series.
Speaker B:But yeah, Chef's kiss for what they do with him.
Speaker A:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker A:I mean, he's just.
Speaker A:He's the ultimate.
Speaker A:And you know, and when any time he's scared, people say like, like, oh, no one could really be a formidable threat to Superman.
Speaker A:Show them Darkseid because, you know, not because of his power sort.
Speaker A:But he's just so ruthless and so intimidating.
Speaker A:So like my two favorite depictions of him animated wise are in here and then in the Superman Batman apocalypse movie where he was voiced by Andre Brower, the late great for Brooklyn 99 and is great there too.
Speaker B:But yeah, when it's that one great line is something like, you know, I am many things Kal El, but here I am.
Speaker A:God, it's like, oh, so chilling.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Again, I always love that.
Speaker A:Like, you know, and I listened to the Batman beyond episode you did with Liz and Evan.
Speaker A:And you know, I was thinking about that.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, I love that's one item thing to go on too.
Speaker A:It's like these were shows I was watching as a kid and I'm like the themes and even, you know, d lines of dialogue like that that they.
Speaker A:I was like, wow, they really, you know, like made got away with a lot four kids shows because like.
Speaker A:And I mean, oh, and in Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, the whole Tim Drake storyline there, that kind of traumatized me as a kid.
Speaker A:But in a beautiful way, like, yeah.
Speaker B:We need to do just an episode on that movie alone.
Speaker A:I would be down great.
Speaker B:I mean, God forbid we keep showing up in this series that they do a great job on.
Speaker B:Doing more episodes on.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love stuff like this.
Speaker A:Oh yes.
Speaker A:It's just like I just.
Speaker A:That's the thing about, you know, Bruce Timm's work and all his co creators here is that that they were not afraid to tell mature storylines for a primarily kids audience, but something that they knew that adults would enjoy as well.
Speaker A:And here we are, adults, you know, years and years later still, you know, consuming these and having a different outlook on them and perhaps appreciating them even more than when we were kids.
Speaker A:And so that's what I love about the show.
Speaker A:And most definitely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And with that.
Speaker A:So favorite episodes.
Speaker A:So, you know, there's a lot here I want to point out.
Speaker A:I think this is one of the best retellings of Superman's origin with the three sort of the three part pilot here, Last line of Krypton.
Speaker A:And you know, because with Batman, the Animated Series, they didn't even throughout the show, they didn't really explore Batman's origin.
Speaker A:They did it in the movie Batman Mask of the Phantasm, which I'm gonna still say is like one, you know, if not the best Batman movie, I probably still say the best Batman movie maybe like it's just.
Speaker A:It's phenomenal.
Speaker A:But they did the origin there.
Speaker A:They never really did it in the show.
Speaker A:This series, however, started straight off with the origin of Superman.
Speaker A:The first episode was focused on Jor El and, you know, the destruction of Krypton.
Speaker A:And then episode two went into Smallville.
Speaker A:Episode three was, you know, Superman, you know, emerging in Metropolis and revealing himself to the world.
Speaker A:So I think it's one of the best.
Speaker A:And what I really liked what they did here was having Brainiac be central to Krypton's origins, which he was a sentient being that was used to power as like an energy power source for Krypton there.
Speaker A:I thought that was a fascinating choice.
Speaker A:And so making him so tied to Superman's origin as whole, I think set him up as a really great villain later on.
Speaker A:So that's absolutely one of my favorites is the origin episode, the three part pilot, Last line of Krypton.
Speaker A:Other than that, you know, this.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:This series did start to build the wider DC universe before Justice League was greenlit.
Speaker A:But one episode I really enjoy is the Flash episode which where.
Speaker A:Where they recreate the iconic race between Superman and Flash in that one.
Speaker A:And they also team up to fight Weather Wizard.
Speaker A:That one is a classic.
Speaker A:I don't think I know Michael Rosenbaum didn't voice Flash in that episode.
Speaker A:He did voice him For Justice League later on Run.
Speaker A:And there is like a difference in the way.
Speaker A:But you know, that was, you know, this was years before, but that is a great episode.
Speaker A:I love the Metallo ones.
Speaker A:I love, you know, like the livewire ones again were a lot of fun here.
Speaker A:And yeah, I mean there's.
Speaker A:Well, and then I think, you know, the crown jewel for me is again the Batman.
Speaker A:Superman was eventually became the Batman Superman movie here.
Speaker A:That again, I watched repeatedly on vhs.
Speaker A:That one I cannot get enough of.
Speaker A:That merged with.
Speaker A:With the same time as New Adventures of Batman.
Speaker A:That is absolutely one of the best team ups you'll ever see.
Speaker A:Sorry bvs, but that is the, the crowned Batman Superman movie for me.
Speaker B:I mean there's no contest at this point in time.
Speaker B:Yeah, this was my pick for my number one.
Speaker B:I'm a crossover guy.
Speaker B:I'm a team up guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love solo stories too, but it's just something that gets me when I see two superheroes in the same story together.
Speaker B:Even if that story is complete and other just, just worthlessness.
Speaker B:Like I'm.
Speaker B:I'm in it to win it.
Speaker B:But this one is far from worthless.
Speaker B:This is like how you do it.
Speaker B:You have Bruce and Clark like figuring out each other's identity and through some shenanigans there, working together despite not liking each other at the very beginning.
Speaker B:Like they have their own different method of doing things.
Speaker B:And you've got, of course, as we mentioned earlier, Lex and, and Joker working together.
Speaker B:And the shenanigans that come up from that.
Speaker B:Harley and Mercy facing off against each other.
Speaker B:Lois Lane in a little bit of a love triangle for, you know, these three episodes and then just having them confront each other and like there's no way to joke or whatever, have a.
Speaker B:Be a serious threat to Superman.
Speaker B:Well, guess what, evens everything up.
Speaker B:Kryptonite.
Speaker B:And there's a reason he went after.
Speaker B:I think it's like that jade dragon or whatever it was in the museums because it's made out of kryptonite.
Speaker B:And you also get the beginnings of their friendship in this one for Clark and Bruce of like him trusting him enough to have kryptonite on his person because like they.
Speaker B:They've earned it together as being like, I see what you do.
Speaker B:I see what you do.
Speaker B:We've come at things differently, but we both want to save people.
Speaker B:We both want to help people.
Speaker B:There's also that great line.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure it's this one where the Joker is falling down, presumably to his death for like the fiftieth time and Harley's like pudding and Batman says nonchalant at this point he probably is.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:And there's even a scene there with Bruce Wayne and Lex like in an elevator, you know, like.
Speaker A:Which was a fascinating economy to have two billionaires on opposite end of the spectrum.
Speaker A:One evil, one good.
Speaker A:You know, like.
Speaker A:And you know, varying, different, very different opposing ideas.
Speaker A:You know, have, you know, a brief exchange.
Speaker A:I thought, you know, was fascinating.
Speaker A:It's just the blueprint was there all along for a live action Batman Superman movie.
Speaker A:And instead they ignored that.
Speaker A:But you know, but now we.
Speaker A:I have hope going forward because James Gunn is a trap.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so honorable mentions to get the main man episode where both Lobo and Superman get taken away to this like arc essentially of like being the last of their kind.
Speaker B:That becomes like a background thing in multiple episodes of the Superman taking those things into the Fortress of Solitude and protecting and taking care of them.
Speaker B:That becomes a huge part of the continuity of the dcau.
Speaker B:And that Starro is one of those things.
Speaker B:And you know, in Batman beyond this gets picked back up on.
Speaker B:That doesn't happen unless this episode happens as well.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The Mitzel flick.
Speaker B:You can say his name like 50 different ways and every single time you're going to be wrong.
Speaker B:But I like the episode a lot because it shows off a side of Superman that doesn't get focused on a lot.
Speaker B:And that he's fairly smart.
Speaker B:He's not like a genius level person, but he can outwit people and he like outwitting Mr. Mitzel Fleck multiple times over in this episode to get him to say his name backwards.
Speaker B:It's a goofy 50s idea.
Speaker B:You know, when Missile comes up on the scene.
Speaker B:And yet they make it work here.
Speaker B:Year and Dark Horse.
Speaker B:I'm actually going to throw in.
Speaker B:What is it called?
Speaker B:I think it's the late Mr. Kent is the episode where Clark Kane is presumed to have died and he's trying to find his corrupt cop.
Speaker B:I think because there's a guy who's about to be sentenced to death and the guy was actually behind a lot of the stuff.
Speaker B:And through the process of pretending that Clark Ken is dead, he's able to figure out what's actually going on.
Speaker B:Come back to.
Speaker B:To not come back to life but like show up back on a scene again.
Speaker B:And the guy, the corrupt cop, I'm pretty sure it's a cop.
Speaker B:It's like the.
Speaker B:But right before he's sentenced to the bill being electrocuted to death.
Speaker B:Realizes that Clark Ken is Superman, but he can't do anything about it because that's when he's killed.
Speaker B:Not on screen, but pretty much heavily implied in a children's cartoon.
Speaker B:It's done extremely well.
Speaker A:They did really, throughout dc, the Animated Universe, they did really clever ways of, like, like, you know, oh, that character is dead.
Speaker A:But they couldn't explicitly show it, you know, like, there, because there was like a.
Speaker A:You remember the arc in Justice League when they go back to World War II, and, you know, I mean, they couldn't, like, show, like, a soldier dying there, but you hear the gunshot and you go off screen.
Speaker A:Like, they, you know, they did everything they could to, like, really scratch the.
Speaker A:Like, you know, still meet the.
Speaker A:You know, the guidelines for what they could and couldn't show.
Speaker A:But it was like, oh, they.
Speaker A:They clearly had, like, death here.
Speaker A:But again, we're very not afraid to go for mature storytelling, even though it was technically a kid show.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, but those ones are great.
Speaker A:Trying to think of any others, but.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I mean, and.
Speaker A:And Lobo, it's funny, like, earlier I would.
Speaker A:I have a friend from work who is not a D.C. guy at all.
Speaker A:He's entirely Marvel.
Speaker A:But I was trying to tell him, like, dude, I think you would really dig Lobo.
Speaker A:And I just sent him his Wikipedia page and said, like, read this and tell me that that doesn't sound interesting.
Speaker A:And they do a great job with him in the series.
Speaker B:Yeah, plenty of great ones to choose from.
Speaker A:Yeah, there is.
Speaker A:I mean, there's a 54 right here.
Speaker A:And then, you know, it's all part again, of a larger interconnected universe.
Speaker A:But, yeah.
Speaker A:So, Christian, thinking about, again, why, you know, we talked a lot about many times on systematic Geekology, you and I, especially about, like, why Superman is still relevant and, you know, that, like, its broader influence on pop culture, even though there are still naysayers out there, what do you think about this show makes it still relevant today?
Speaker A:Because I think, especially now, like we said, James Gunn cites this as a major influence for a Superman movie and for the wider DC universe going forward.
Speaker A:And like we were talking about earlier, I think at the time, during the 90s, it wasn't as big a hit as Batman, the Animated Series.
Speaker A:And Batman, the Animated Series is still, like, the crown jewel of superhero storytelling.
Speaker A:But I feel like this show in particular has aged really well and is developing more fans as it's gone on.
Speaker A:So what do you think makes it really stand out and remain relevant today?
Speaker B:There's a much maligned line in the man of Steel movie.
Speaker B:And there's a reason it's maligned because it's delivered poorly in a bad film.
Speaker B:But that's its own separate issue, is the S stands for hope.
Speaker B:And, and the idea being, is that Superman himself stands for hope.
Speaker B:That's a terrible line and a terrible movie.
Speaker B:But the idea behind it, yeah, sure, I get it, because that's who Superman is.
Speaker B:He is hope because he's the best of us.
Speaker B:He isn't human, but he's who we should be aspiring to be.
Speaker B:You know, he's not a Jesus figure.
Speaker B:You know, once again, comics being created most of the time by more Jewish creators at the time in the 30s, he's more of a Moses figure figure.
Speaker B:And Moses inspired a lot of hope in what was going on there.
Speaker B:So that's something we need to look up to, is this person who wants us to be better than who we are.
Speaker B:And Superman has a tremendous way of doing that because he has all that power.
Speaker B:And what does he do with it he uses to help people.
Speaker A:I couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:And I, you know, and.
Speaker A:And that's, again, what I love about this show is that, that I think it really does emphasize the Moses allegories more so than, like the Jesus Christ figure out that a lot of Superman depictions and modern stories have tried to emphasize.
Speaker A:This really emphasizes that, yeah, he is a human with gifts here trying to inspire people to be the best they can.
Speaker A:He's not the, you know, infallible people per person.
Speaker A:You know, he has weaknesses, he has.
Speaker A:He has, you know, everyday problems that he has to deal with as well, and is trying to balance his life as, you know, a reporter and, you know, his relationships and, you know, his superhero duties.
Speaker A:But, yeah, he wants humanity to be the best it can be.
Speaker A:And that is what really stands out about this series.
Speaker A:It's just that it remains true throughout to the spirit and the iconic.
Speaker A:The icon of who Superman is is at its core, it doesn't try to mess with that formula.
Speaker A:It just brings it alive in a modern age.
Speaker A:Modern at the time, but.
Speaker A:But still, this fits into the modern era of Superman.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:I think it just holds up all these years later because it, again, it.
Speaker A:It really stays true to all of its characters, the heroes and villains alike.
Speaker A:And it gives them distinct personalities and distinct traits and distinct motivations.
Speaker A:And the world building is so unique and so immersive and like I said, it fits in so well with the wider DC universe.
Speaker A:So it's just, for me, one of the best depictions of the character.
Speaker A:And all these years later, I think I appreciate it even more now than when I did as a kid, because I was wildly entertained as a kid watching all these shows.
Speaker A:But looking at them now, I'm like, wow, these have amazing themes in them.
Speaker A:You know, really mature storylines, great, rich characters that, you know, are perfect for other adaptations.
Speaker A:And so that's why I love that James Gunn is drawing on this as a major source of inspiration.
Speaker A:I also just have a quick note here.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:So I was looking up, like, the Wikipedia pages earlier from the cast members, and this is where I don't know if I just feel old or if it's surreal or what, but, okay, so, like, when I'm a kid watching this, like, oh, Superman is this larger than life figure.
Speaker A:He's, you know, all my girl.
Speaker A:And then I. I saw Superman Returns when I was like.
Speaker A:Like, let's see, I was like 12 then.
Speaker A:So obviously Superman, adult, then larger than life.
Speaker A:Then I get to like, man of Steel.
Speaker A:Okay, I was a freshman in college, so I was closer in age to Henry Cavill then.
Speaker A:But then now I am.
Speaker A:David Quin.
Speaker A:Swed, who plays Superman in the new movie, is only three months older than I am.
Speaker A:Like, his birthday is today.
Speaker A:And I'm like, whoa, I'm the same age as Superman.
Speaker A:I don't know what the.
Speaker A:Again, I don't know if I'm like, I'm old or that's real or cool or whatever, but that's just a weird feel that, like, it's for a character that has been around my own entire life and has been portrayed by multiple people.
Speaker A:Now I'm at the age where, oh, my, I'm the same age as Superman.
Speaker A:So it's a.
Speaker A:It's a wild thing, tj.
Speaker B:We've been blessed.
Speaker A:Lex Luthor should have hair.
Speaker B:We've been blessed to have a rare TJ appearance.
Speaker B:He never listens to anything that we do, but here he is putting in a bad opinion on purpose.
Speaker B:And, you know, depending on your continuity, like, starts off with hair, and then because the Superman loses it, a victim of the post crisis is that.
Speaker B:I don't think that's no longer canon.
Speaker B:But you know what?
Speaker B:Some things needed to die after the crisis happened.
Speaker A:So tj, if you want your Lex with hair, you can.
Speaker A:You can go to those versions.
Speaker A:They do exist, but I don't think that's going to happen.
Speaker A:It's going forward.
Speaker B:Funnily enough, the Ultra Humanite was one of Superman's earliest villains, too.
Speaker B:Back in the day, he kind of served like A lethal role.
Speaker B:And eventually those qualities got to transfer to just Lex.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But just that look right there.
Speaker A:How can you develop a better look of Lex Luthor than.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's just right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, Christian, if you had to rate this series on a 1 to 10 scale, I know this is tough, but.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Well, if you had to pick a number, what do you think you would give it?
Speaker B:I like it less than Batman, the Animated Series movies.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that one has more quality overall, but this one is still pretty solid.
Speaker B:I'm giving this one a nine out of ten.
Speaker B:Like, this was my introduction to a lot of DC concepts and characters, and there's some nostalgia behind that, but I think most of the episodes are tightly written.
Speaker B:There's some stinkers, but, you know, for the most part, you're gonna have a great time with this.
Speaker B:If you want.
Speaker B:This is when it.
Speaker B:Somehow.
Speaker B:This is your introduction to Superman all these years later.
Speaker A:Have at it.
Speaker A:I would say I would give it the same rating, actually.
Speaker A:I mean, Batman, the end of it series, you know, is formative for me, and it is.
Speaker A:I mean, a 10 out of 10.
Speaker A:Just, you know, master storytelling overall and my favorite depiction of Batman.
Speaker A:But Superman, the Animated Series, like I said, you know, I mean, I don't love every episode, but I.
Speaker A:As far as a depiction of the character, as far as a great, you know, animated storytelling and, you know, with rich characters, great animation still holds up all these years later.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:It's also just, you know, it.
Speaker A:It's hard to give, like, anything a less than really high rating in this era of DC animation because they're all just fantastic.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I would say 9 out of 10 as well.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:Well, this was fantastic.
Speaker A:And before we go, Christian, do you have any recommendations either related to Superman or it could be something totally different as well?
Speaker B:I just needed something to give me a laugh, and it's not intended to be a laugh, but if you.
Speaker B:If you didn't know The Chariots of the God, Erich Von Daniken is an ancient astronaut theory book about how back in the day, civilizations were visited by aliens, and that's how the pyramids were built and Machu Picchu and so on and so forth.
Speaker B:And I just needed something fun to read.
Speaker B:And, like, he's serious and everything he says, but as someone who does believe in alien life, I don't think this is how it happened.
Speaker B:So it gave me a good chuckle.
Speaker B:So Chariots of the Gods don't go developing any Philosophies or theologies around it, as some people unfortunately have.
Speaker B:But if you want to just have good fun, like not take something seriously, go read that.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:I think for me, I know we talked a lot about DC animation here.
Speaker A:I want to recommend Static Shock.
Speaker A:If you've never seen it, that is also one of the best.
Speaker A:And it is a phenomenal show.
Speaker A:And I'm really hoping they do.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm sure they will eventually.
Speaker A:That one is not on auto.
Speaker A:On Blu Ray yet.
Speaker A:They have it on DVDs, but I really want to add that to my DC Animation Blu Ray collection when that happens.
Speaker A:But phenomenal show.
Speaker A:Phil Lamar was the main voice there and also as Kevin Michael Richardson.
Speaker A:And, you know, it was created by all the creators from Milestone at the time.
Speaker A:And it's just.
Speaker A:It's phenomenal.
Speaker A:It's really mirrors kind of like a Spider man type story and character.
Speaker A:A lot of those themes are there of just you know, a teenage superhero trying to juggle all of the different areas of his life.
Speaker A:Absolute phenomenal storytelling throughout.
Speaker A:And yeah, they really need to put that back on Max and get it on Blu Ray because.
Speaker A:Because it deserves to be in every comic fan's, every D.C. fan's household.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Excellent series.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Also, we're doing an episode on.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Oh, we will, absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, I think we can easily go through all the big ones.
Speaker A:We've done Batman Beyond.
Speaker A:We've done Superman.
Speaker A:I know we talked about.
Speaker A:I don't think we've ever done, like, one specific episode on the Animated series that may have to be multiple because there are so many episodes.
Speaker A:And then we'll have to do that.
Speaker B:I'm fine with that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'd be all for it.
Speaker A:And then, you know, Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.
Speaker A:So we will.
Speaker A:We'll get through them all, but yeah.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker A:This was fantastic.
Speaker A:And again, for our listeners, viewers out there, please, like, subscribe, support the show, follow us on and subscribe to us on Patreon.
Speaker A:We would really appreciate your help there.
Speaker A:And yeah, give us a like on YouTube because again, those promises about us showing off our geek caves and will frolicking through either the interior of the key cave or a field of flowers.
Speaker A:Those promises still hold up so well, thank you all for joining.
Speaker A:And remember, we are all a chosen people.
Speaker A:A kingdom of priests.
Speaker A:Peace, y'.
Speaker A:All.
