From Frogs to Dreams: An Analytical Review of 'Princess and the Frog'

Joshua Noel: 00:01:10

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, frogs, gators and skaters of all ages, we welcome you to the wonderful world of Walt Disney's animation studios. Today we are really excited as we finally get into the revival era of Disney animation films with the one and only Princess and the Frog.

It is contested whether or not it's the first revival film but not to me agree. There you go. I am Joshua Noel, one of your hosts and today I am with the the reason for podcast he is man he has friends on both sides.

The one only T.J. tiberius one Blackwell. How's it going?

TJ Blackwell: 00:01:58

Good.

Joshua Noel: 00:01:58

Yeah and before we do anything else I want to remind you guys if you're on a laptop consider rating, reviewing our show on pod chaser or good pots going to help our show gain recognition make it easier to find in sear engines like Google which what people look stuff up on. If you're on your phone, consider rating, reviewing or commenting on our show on Apple Podcasts Spotify one of those two.

It's going to help prioritize our show and their algorithms which were most people listen to podcasts so that helps a lot. Also want to thank one of our one of our supporters. We can sponsor our show on Apple podcast Captivator Patreon.

Today we're shouting out the one and only Justin Vaughn. Dude, we love you. Both of us like legitimate we love Justin.

Yeah and remember if you want your own shout out, you too can support our show for $3 a month on one of those three platforms Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon. Now TJ before I say other things, what have you been geeking out on lately? Man oh man.

TJ Blackwell: 00:02:54

Elden Ring Night Rain. So good. I haven't tried crack but I imagine it would give me the same feeling.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:02

All right, that's that sounds pretty pretty nice. Pretty nice. Yeah I last weekend Christian Ashley, another one of our hosts was at my house to watch Doctor who.

That's not what I was going to say for what I'm geeking out on.

Instead what I'm going to say is we try to play some some more modern games on Steam multiplayer and just couldn't find stuff that both work that we also both enjoy doing together. Ended up opening up a ROM and we both got like spent a couple hours really getting into Ratchet Deadlocked. Such a good game.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:33

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:33

And yeah now of course gonna finish the game by myself because I have.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:36

To Modern modern games you really only have two options. It's it takes two or split Fiction.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:42

Overcooked was really good but apparently Stressed him out because of the time. Like, you're timed.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:48

Yeah. He doesn't work in a kitchen.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:50

Yeah. TJ and I, though, we had a good time playing that one.

And I had a good time discussing some food and video games on another podcast, Grubbing Grace by Mark Lauer.

So you guys go over there, subscribe to his show, and that podcast episode will probably release soonish, and maybe me and Mark will get to play some and drop that on Instagram or something. Or T.J. and I will. Just to play, though, really won't help you guys at all. No, it's fine, though.

But jumping into today's episode, this is the first film we've covered in the revival era of Disney animation. It might be the first film in the Disney revival era, if you count it. Originally, for a long time, people were like, no, the first one's Tangled.

And it seems like more and more people are just accepting that I was right all along and it was Princess and the Frog. Yeah. Which I love that. So we're gonna do three from this era. So it's 3D this time. What is it?

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:40

Tangled is in 3D.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:42

Yeah. Most of the Disney revival movies are in 3D.

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:47

No, the era is just really short. It's just Princess and the Frog.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:54

Well, there's that by most counts. They'll say now. They'll say Prince of the Frog. They were saying Tangled into whatever movies now.

I honestly, I think the revival era has already finished. We just haven't named the new era. So no one's acknowledging that it's already over. Yeah, but it's.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:11

People are saying Wish was the last movie in the revival era. And I'm.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:15

I agree.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:15

Willing to end it early, even before, like, straight. I haven't seen Strange World.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:20

I don't know if Strange World was good. I also think that it could be the next era could have started with it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:25

No, as far as the people are concerned, Wish was still part of the revival era. So I'm saying we go out on a limb and cut it off early and say Strange World is the first one in the current era. Whatever it is.

Strange World should be the first one, because Encanto was, you know, revival. And I, like, think Encanto is great.

Joshua Noel: 00:05:46

Yeah. Encanto is like the pinnacle, like the ending. The pinnacle is the ending in beginning.

I feel like Princess and the Frog Encanto, and then everything else between was good and Tangled.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:58

I like Tangled a lot onwards. Really, really good.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:00

I don't like Tangled. I don't remember Onward. Which one Was Onward. Oh, that was Pixar. That doesn't count.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:06

That was. Yeah, it was just Pixar.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:08

Yeah. But it's on Disney Plus. We're talking about that, too, at some point.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:12

Because before we move on, like, there's great movies in the revival era. You don't. Josh doesn't like Tangled for personal reasons.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:21

I don't know why I don't like Tangled. I tried to like it because it was in Kingdom Hearts 3, which made me feel obligated to like it. I still just don't know.

But it's like, there's no reason why I don't like. It just doesn't click.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:32

Like Wreck It Ralph one is great. Frozen, the first. Frozen is great. Moana is phenomenal.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:38

So true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:39

Even Zootopia is still, like, a really good movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:42

Yeah. Pretty much all of them have been pretty great. I really.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:46

Yeah. Except I enjoyed all and Wish.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:49

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:49

Ryan the Last Dragon and Wish.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:51

Raya. Raya, I think, was better than I got credit for. The thing that really held it down was a lack of music, I think.

TJ Blackwell: 00:06:57

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:59

Just all in theaters because of when it was released, but that's where. So in our show, we're cheating. So we're gonna do three from revival era. We're gonna make up an era called the Pandemic era.

So those movies that should have been in theaters that just weren't released in the theater. So, like, Raya, I think we're gonna do Onward and one other. I don't remember what they are.

Yeah, so we're gonna do that, and then we're gonna circle back and do. Because a few of the eras we only did two movies in for the series, we're gonna circle back and do a third for.

From some of those first couple eras that we didn't do three movies in. But this is the first in the revival era. If you accept our count of what the revival era is. If you don't find a different podcast. What are you doing?

There's so many podcasts out there. You can listen to any of them. Find someone who agrees with you. Get in a nice echo chamber. It's Disney. It doesn't matter.

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:42

It's true.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:43

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so now that I've chased off our fans, I'm really excited for this. This is actually the more I told TJ earlier, I text him.

I was like, I think this film gets better every single time I watch it. I remember the first time I watched it. Like, that was really good. Really awesome movie. I was super hyped about it.

A lot of my friends at the time weren't, because I think I was at that age where, like, we were supposed to be too old for Disney.

And I was the first one that was like, yeah, I think I'm over being old, because, you know, like, you get to a point where you're too old for cartoons, and then you get old enough where you're like, you're no longer too old. Like, you age out, and then you age back into it somehow. I was at that point where I was agent back in.

Like, actually, I think I just don't care what people think about me watching cartoons, so my friends really cared about it the way I did.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:29

I think music's good also. I was 10, so I was in a slightly different situation.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:35

Yeah. Yeah. And the film, at first it didn't get as much recognition because it make as much in the box office as Disney wanted it to.

But then as time has gone on, everyone like, wait a minute, this is great. And Disney was like, all right, well, we got to revamp everything now that people think this film was great, and I'm okay with it.

Honestly, the only one I'm slightly sad about is A Splash Mountain. And that's just because of nostalgia.

Like, objectively, I think it's the right decision to make it about Princess and the Frog, just for nostalgic reasons. I missed that old. That old little song they played in that film. Yeah. But anyway, we'll talk about that a little bit later.

I am really excited to talk about this film, especially with tj, because TJ and I have watched this together a couple times. We've been to Disney World a few times, so it's gonna be a good time. Tj, when is the first time you remember seeing this film?

And what are some of your memories with these characters throughout your life? Since you were 10 when you first watched it, apparently.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:34

Yeah. I don't think I was 10 when I saw it. I was 10 when it came out, though.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:38

Oh, I wasn't.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:40

I definitely didn't see it on release. I was part of the box office problem also. I was 10, so, like, I couldn't pay to go see it. It's not up to me.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:47

That was probably during that one recession we had, too, wasn't it?

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:50

Yeah, it was right after the: 2008

Joshua Noel: 00:09:53

Yeah. Makes sense.

TJ Blackwell: 00:09:54

people are still recovering.: 2010

The first time I saw Princess the Frog probably probably wasn't that long ago.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:08

Did I make you watch it. This is a situation where I was like, hey, let's watch this.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:13

It was probably a good 6ish years ago.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:16

Okay. Yeah. My wife completely missed it. And I was like, hold up. This film. She was like, that was really good. Out of business.

I was also, because, like, for some reason, there was a point where everyone was like, I don't like modern Disney. Even though they could never point to, like, what movies they were talking about. Because, like, the movies before this was like, Chicken Little.

That was a good movie.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:34

I could definitely understand someone watching Chicken Little and thinking, yeah, I think Disney's.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:39

Done, like, it was good. It just wasn't like, you know, Aladdin, Treasure Planet.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:46

It was really funny, though. Chicken Little is really funny.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:48

Yeah. People should rewatch that. Also check the little turkey kingdom hearts.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:52

The turkey with, like, the cue cards. Hilarious.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:56

True, true. But today we're going to be talking. I did first see it in the theater. I don't remember who I saw it with or anything like that.

I very distinctly remembering liking this film way more than any of my friends and thinking that everybody else was wrong. And that was, like, one of the first times that I was like, wait a minute, I'm Josh with the bad opinions.

But this is one of those that it turned out that, like, people. Everybody else was wrong.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:19

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:20

Some stuff like andor in Halo. I'm just the wrong one, though.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:23

Correct.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:24

Yeah. But this one everyone came back around to.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:26

Yeah. So I hope you enjoyed that feeling.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:29

Yeah. It's never going to happen again.

TJ Blackwell: 00:11:30

Never again.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:32

No one. Not everyone's. There's never going to be a day where everyone wakes up and it's like, wait a minute, Josh was right. Halo sucks. That's not happening.

No, it's fine. But yeah, it's interesting how it didn't do huge at the box office.

And as time has gone by, more and more people gravitate to this film being really one of the staples of Disney. Tiana is one of the Disney princesses.

It's interesting because sometimes you'll see, like, the new Disney princesses pictures together and they include Brave. And that always irritates me because she's Pixar, but whatever. What's her name? Miranda. From Brave.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:08

Merida.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:09

Merida. Yeah. Pixar doesn't count, but apparently does. But, you know, they'll have, like, the new Disney princesses and then.

But what's interesting is, like, a lot of times, even when they have, like, the classic Disney princesses, they'll still include Tiana in it. And she definitely was not around back then.

But, like, you could tell, like, with the art style, the effort that they put into this, and, like, some of the cool throwbacks here. Like, yeah, she does belong as one of the Disney princesses.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:34

Yeah. Which is also funny because the movie is set in, like, 70s New Orleans.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:40

Yeah. And she's not a princess and she's not a prince.

TJ Blackwell: 00:12:45

She's not even the mayor's daughter or the governor's daughter.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:49

But, yeah. No, it's great, though. So, D.J. because you're better at this, would you.

For those who somehow missed watching the Princess and the Frog, could you summarize what happens in this film?

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:47

All right, so basically, you've heard the story of the princess and the frog before. Princess finds frog, kisses frog, turns into a prince, happily ever after. That's not really what happens here.

So Tiana is just poor girl working in New Orleans, trying to make the money to make her dream come true because she wants to open a restaurant. That is her passion is cooking. And that's another reason why I like this movie a lot, because, yeah, I like to cook.

Also, I think it's probably the most relatable one was why they push it so often and, you know, not even including the representation, because she is the first and, so far only black Disney princess.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:29

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:29

But things happen. You know, this is New Orleans, so Mardi Gras intent. You know, it's Mardi Gras season.

That's where she becomes, you know, well, where the princess part of the story comes in, because she's trying to be the Mardi Gras princess.

Joshua Noel: 00:14:44

But.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:44

So there's a prince in town. His dream is to not be a prince, Basically. He doesn't want to do anything ever. He just wants to have fun. So things happen.

There's a witch doctor in town, and he decides with the help of the prince's assistant aide. I'm not sure what to call him, really. But the witch doctor realizes he can get rich by cursing this prince, you know, taking over their money.

He's from Moldova, so wants to hold him for ransom, something like that. But he's a witch doctor in New Orleans. This is Disney. So he's got real ghosts and spirits.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:23

On his side from the other side.

TJ Blackwell: 00:15:26

From the other side. They're his friends from the other side.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:29

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:15:31

So he gets turned into a frog.

His assistant takes over, and basically the way the curse works is as long as they keep the little talisman filled with the prince's blood, he's going to look like Prince Naveen. And it's easy Cuz they turned him into a frog and they have him in a jar. Duh. And then he escapes. Right, so he escapes.

He finds his way, you know, to the Mardi Gras party, finds Tiana, who's wearing a dress because her friend is the governor's daughter. Or is he the mayor?

Joshua Noel: 00:16:02

I'm unsure.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:03

He's mayor of New Orleans.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:05

He's also the pastor of the Gemstones family.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:07

He just makes a lot of money. He's got a lot of money. That's what matters. So he finds Tiana, assumes she's a princess, and convinces her to kiss him.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:16

And then they.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:16

They're both frogs. Yeah, just like they're both frogs. So they have a little frog adventure through the bayou and meet some friends along the way.

Yeah, of course everything works out in the end. And spoiler warning, but Tiana becomes a frog willingly and she's willing to stay a frog. And then of course, they, they turn back into people.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:41

Yeah, yeah. That's one of the interesting parts too is like this film very much centers around money.

All the characters, their motivation is some way tied to money. Tiana's trying to get money to buy her restaurant that her dad always dreamed of.

And she was gonna, you know, carry on his legacy, do all that kind of stuff. And then the prince been cut off from his parents, so he's trying to get money again because he's a prince that has no money.

And then, you know, the other girl whose name's escaping me, the blonde girl. Her name's Blonde Girl now. Blonde girl, Big daddy's daughter. Big daughter. I don't know.

Sure, she, she's not portrayed as large in the film or anything. It's funny, she's portrayed as like very stereotypical beautiful blonde, like how you expect most of the Disney princesses to look.

And I think that was very intentional. Anyway, she has all the money she wants. She's motivated to use her money to get the prince who wants her for her money.

And it's just so like how every single character some way ties back to wealth and is portrayed in New Orleans where you see this very clear, see very clear disparity where like the white rich folk can have whatever they want. They could have bought her. Like her friend could have just had her restaurant bought for at any time.

Whereas Tiana is a black woman raised by a black dad on the bayou. She had to work two, three jobs to try and get enough money to buy this restaurant and was still going to be outbid.

Charlotte had all the money she wants, the Other thing that's interesting is it could have done one or two things right. A lot of times that's what you expect Disney princess to look like. And here we have our first black princess with Tiana.

And it could have shown where she was greedy and was never going to help her friend, and she turned out to be the bad guy, which is what a lot of what times is what happens these days. It's like the bad guy's the white people.

And then to show diversity, we're gonna make the non white people good and the white straight people terrible. And this film was like, no, actually, she's still good. She loved her friend. She just completely did not see the issue, Just never addressed it.

She was completely blind to it. The bad guy was also a person of color. There's like, a thing called nuance that was really well used in this film.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:53

Yeah. Also, great villain Dr. Facilier is one of my favorite villains in Disney period and definitely my favorite modern Disney villa.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:01

It's fantastic. I keep wanting to get ahead of myself and talk about other things, but I'm gonna keep going through this.

So if you had to rate the film zero to ten, tj, Princess and the Frog. What's it getting?

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:13

Nine.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:16

I'm going nine and a half, I think.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:19

Yeah. It really is phenomenal.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:22

Yeah. Like, what's funny is if I was rating as a cartoon film. 10, 10 out of 10.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:28

You know what? I'm just gonna give it a 10. I was trying to think of something that it deserved to lose a point for, and I can't.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:35

So, yeah, like, it's pretty. The thing is, it gets better every time I watch it. So eventually maybe I'll say 10. The only reason is because I'm rating it.

When I do this, I, like, compare it to all the other Disney films, and for me, Jungle Book and Hercules are the only tens. But, man, this gets. This gets close. It gets so close. It's phenomenal.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:55

Yeah, it's there.

Joshua Noel: 00:19:56

Yeah. TJ doesn't give tens out very often.

I think what's funny is I think Ratatouille, you, treasure Play is the only one Disney films that you gave a 10 other than us. Right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:05

Should be.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:06

That sounds about right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:07

So Princess and the Frog is.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:10

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:11

Just genuinely amazing.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:13

Yeah. Well. And part of what I think made it so just awesome, like, the art and animation. This film, like.

Like, back when it came out, I was only of the age where I was like, oh, it's kind of cool. They're doing, like, classic Disney movie. It looks like an old one. That was like the limit of my thought.

And then the more I learned about it, I'm like, dear God, so much more than that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:39

Yeah. And it's like they just. It's really insulting because they did it pretty much just to show that they could do it and they weren't gonna do it again.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:48

Yeah. Just want to show you guys we can do this if we feel like.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:52

They were just like, here, enjoy. It's the last one.

Joshua Noel: 00:20:57

Yeah. So it was John Musker and Ron Clements. They're like, hey, guys. Got all these old school animators together.

Like, we're gonna do a hand drawn film and it's gonna be awesome.

And supposedly even when they got people together and announced that even the other animators were like, wait for it to be a joke or something, they were like, really? We're gonna do another hand draw. They just didn't believe it, which is great.

For those who don't know John Musker, Ron Clements, they studied under some of nine old men, like Disney's nine Old Men. They led the animation for this film.

They also did the great Mouse Detective, which was the last Disney film to have one of the nine old men working on it. Other notable works, the Little Mermaid, one of my wife's favorite. My wife has two favorite Disney movies.

One's the Little Mermaid, Aladdin, some of our other hosts. That's their favorite Disney film. Treasure Planet, TJ's favorite Disney movie. Hercules, my favorite Disney movie.

And Moana, my wife's other favorite Disney movie.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:53

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:21:53

I don't know why they don't do all the Disney films. Disney has the money. Just pay them.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:57

They've never missed their. Their worst movie is the Great Mouse Detective and it's not theirs.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:03

And it's also phenomenal.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:05

Really good.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:08

Just. Just wild for this film. Almost all of its 2D hand drawn. What's not. So they used a program called Maya or Maya.

And what it did was produce the realistic fireflies and then the wheels as 3D effects. Pretty much everything else is 2D.

They just did a couple things with special effects because turns out, hey, we want to do it all hand drawn, but we're not dumb. We're still going to use modern technology when it's useful.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:33

Yeah. And this was like their last foray into. Well, I'm thinking, yeah, this is their last foray into like a mixed medium, as far as I'm aware.

Wish they might do it.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:45

Wish did a little bit, sort of Wishes animation was incredible. Everything else about Wish was a huge Letdown.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:53

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:54

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:54

Which is it? We should do a Wish episode, because I want to talk about the production of that.

Joshua Noel: 00:22:57

Yeah, me too.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:58

It's really interesting.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:00

Yeah. But so for this film, though, one of the other things. That's cool.

So they do a lot of stuff, like nod to Disney's tradition, the history of Disney film. One part, because, hey, we love Disney. Disney always does this.

But also because they really wanted to solidify Tiana as one of the princesses, which I think is really important. Some of the stuff they did that was kind of cool. So they reused the dancing animation from Beauty and the Beast and Sleeping Beauty.

So it's the same dancing animation for both of them. They used it again during the scene here with Navim dancing near the end of the film.

They also reused one of the scenes from Sword in the Stone when Lewis describes the voodoo queen and he. Like, he puts the moss on his head. Yeah, yeah, That's. I think. I think.

TJ Blackwell: 00:23:46

Didn't Musker and Clements do Sword in the Stone?

Joshua Noel: 00:23:49

It wasn't listed on.

TJ Blackwell: 00:23:50

I think it's better than Great Mask Detective. So my previous statement still stands. I think Sword and Stone is the most overheaded Disney film for no reason.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:01

Anyway. They also had the animator study Bambi for the art in the film.

So, like, the way the trees and everything are drawn so that supposedly it was so that they wouldn't put too much detail into the background. It turns out that makes the background look less good. Yeah. Then one of my other favorite fun facts with this side of stuff is Odin Benetes.

Benetus Benitez. I don't know. The sound designer.

He went to New Orleans and recorded sounds like the sounds of the church bells, the sound of the Mardi Gras parade, and even some of the nature sounds you hear in the bayou. He literally just went there and recorded it for the film. He's like, you know what'll make this feel really realistic?

If it's literally the same sound. Turns out he was right.

TJ Blackwell: 00:24:44

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good idea.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:47

Genius. Yeah. So see other.

Did you have anything else, like, with the art and animation stuff that stood up to you other than just, like, the way they did the shadow for Dr. Facilier was.

TJ Blackwell: 00:24:57

It's gorgeous. That is really. It's so cool to see the way they implement the shadow.

Joshua Noel: 00:25:04

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:04

Just in general, like, they manage, like, Vasilia will be in the frame and the focus will still be on the shadow early in the movie, just to get you to notice.

Joshua Noel: 00:25:13

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:13

And then the shadow starts Moving. And you're like, oh, that's why that shot looked like that.

Because when it's just, you know, when you're not paying attention to it at first, you'll notice the shadow and you'll be like, that's. That's weird. And then it starts moving.

Joshua Noel: 00:25:26

Oh, I see one of the other cool things with like just the animation.

This isn't like style or anything necessarily, but it was just whenever he does, like, his villain song instead of it being like all dark, like most villain songs are animated in Disney. They use like these bright, like, New Orleans kind of colors.

And the way some of the like voodoo zombie kind of stuff is like coming out from the other side or whatever. It just. It doesn't look like atypical ghost or whatever. Like they did something unique.

And the fact that all that was hand drawn when they could have just been like, computer do this. It just can't get over, like, how much detail and work went into this film. And making it look the way it did is just so good.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:04

Yeah. It's visually stunning.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:06

Oh, yeah. Throughout. Yeah. So I have a couple history fact, fun stuff that I want to discuss.

Do you have anything else you want to shout out as far as, like the history or some of the behind the scenes stuff of the film?

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:17

No, I just think it's a really fun look into what New Orleans was like at the time.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:23

Yeah. Because it's not like modern modern, but it's not like old.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:28

Yeah, it's just old.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:29

Like she works in a diner.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:31

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:31

Which is so funny because it's like the diner is like flapjacks and eggs and, you know, whatever. And it's very clearly like an old school diner. And then she's like, also, I'm gonna make some beignets.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:41

But beignets are like a New Orleans thing.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:43

Yeah. I mean, all of her food are like. I think all of the food that she cooks anyways, like, genuinely like.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:47

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:48

From that kind of history.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:50

Jambalaya and culture. Flapjacks, French toast.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:53

I want to try her gumbo so bad.

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:56

Got to be good.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:58

All right, so some of the other history with the film Louis is inspired by Louis Armstrong. Why is he not called Louis? Great question. Please write Ron Clements immediately.

Alan Mint Mandin, he's the composer for the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin.

He was originally gonna be the composer for this film, but because scheduling conflicts, they ended up getting Randy Newman guy from Toy story Monsters, Inc. Etc. He ended up doing that. So you get a little bit of that Pixar flair in here, I guess. And better jazz.

I'm just not convinced Alan men could have done, like, the jazz as well.

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:32

Yeah, I don't think so.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:33

So kind of glad that we got Randy Newman for that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:37

All respect, Alan Menken.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:38

Oh, yeah, Great artist, but wouldn't have worked for this.

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:42

He couldn't have done this.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:42

Not as well, anyway. We also. We see the magic carpet and genie's lamp portrayed in this film in different parts.

Probably because Naveen is supposed to be from some kind of, like, Middle Eastern, Southern Asian kind of world. They made up a country for him. That's not real, but I think that's why they kind of had some of those cameos.

But we do also see Trident in the Mardi Gras film, but that's because the animators were the ones who did Little Mermaids. Of course they're gonna include that.

Here's where the real fun for me is the band and Lewis's flashback, you know, when he had, like, the flashback on the ship and he's like, I tried to play on one of the cruise ships once. The band. If you look closely on the drums, it says the Firefly plus Lou that it has. Frank Thomas was the one drawn as the drummer.

He really was the drummer for that band. And also he was one of Disney's nine old men, so that's why they use that band. And I just thought that was super cool.

You also can see John Musker and John Clements drew themselves into the film during the Mardi Gras scene. And that's just cool. I always. I kind of like when animators or whoever, like, you know what? I'm gonna draw myself into this. Why not?

TJ Blackwell: 00:28:50

Yeah, it's funny and, like, big. As long as you're not making yourself the protagonist or anything. I do think it's really funny. Just throw yourself in there as a cameo.

Joshua Noel: 00:28:59

The only time the writer can be the antagonist. And I still think it's great. Specifically for Deadpool comics. That's when it works. It's fantastic. Deadpool's like, why the hell would you write this?

All right, so one thing we like to do for these episodes, tj, you know, we have to list our favorite song, favorite scene, and favorite character from the film. I'll let you go first. Favorite scene, favorite song, favorite character. What do you got?

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:03

Okay, so favorite character is Ray.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:07

Mmm.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:08

That's hard. This is hard. This whole movie is just so unbelievably good. Characters, music, scenery, style. It's all phenomenal.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:17

Yeah. For context, my Brain has been preparing for you to either say Rey or Dr. Facilier.

And I have two different characters I was gonna pick based on which one of those. I thought you would. Is that right? Was it gonna be one of those two?

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:31

Yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:31

That's great.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:33

Yeah, it definitely is one of the two. I'm gonna say both. It's Rey and Dr. Facili.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:39

All right. All right. I dig it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:41

If you. If you haven't seen the movie, you're still here. Ray's a firefly, and he is in.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:45

Love with a star and becomes a.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:47

Star and becomes a star. They end up together. Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:50

Fantastic.

TJ Blackwell: 00:31:51

Is that what you thought was gonna. Is that where you thought this was going? He gets the girl.

Joshua Noel: 00:31:58

I love him. All right, so, you know, I was going to ask you, what's your favorite?

TJ Blackwell: 00:32:06

Let's alternate. No, let's alternate.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:08

Oh, okay. It really. It really. It's. It's so difficult. Rey, actually, is just so. So great. I love Rey. Tiana comes close.

The other one, I would say, though, I love Lewis too. All the characters are so good. Even Charlotte. Honestly, I really like that. Charlotte actually is a good friend.

She's just ignorant of the fact that she, her friend, is struggling so much. Yeah. I'm gonna say Rey if I have to pick one. Like, you have this, like, he grew up in the bayou. He's got that accent.

And even when you're like, I'm from far away. You mean down yonder. You know, like, it's like, he's awesome all the way through and sacrifices himself for everybody.

And honestly, I think maybe one of the most meaningful deaths that Disney has ever done. Maybe not Pixar, as far as, like, Disney goes. I was like, oh, that was actually meaningful. They didn't. Not just a.

You know, they always kill one of the parents off in the beginning or both. This was like, a meaningful death. I was like, oh, yeah. And I think it's a shame that Disney doesn't always betray the two stars.

Whenever they do the Disney logo, they don't have to say it's Ray, but, like, come on.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:17

It would be very nice. And it's not even. Like, it's fairly graphic.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:23

Yeah. You watch him fade out.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:25

Graphic. But it's emotionally stressful.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:28

Yeah. Like, that was the one thing my wife at the Air was like, what do you mean he dies? I hate this movie.

But she does love the movie now, but, yeah, it's rough. Yeah. Okay, favorite scene.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:39

So favorite scene that's harder than Song. Okay, so my favorite scene is probably Facilier's. You know, song Friends from the Other side. That's probably my favorite scene in the movie.

But that is not my favorite song in the movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:33:56

I've done that a few times in this. I honestly almost said the same scene, weirdly enough, but also not my favorite song. But instead, I think I'm gonna put my favorite scene.

I forgot who it was. But. So it's back when they are first kind of learning that he's a prince who doesn't have any money and all this kind of, like, stuff.

Like when they're getting into that first, like, we don't like each other phase that couples have to go through before they like each other in a Disney film. And they're getting attacked by a group of gators, and the head gators actually played by a famous chef from New Orleans.

I don't remember who the guy was, but it's so funny because they mentioned that he makes great frog legs. And then like, once you know that that's actually a chef known for cooking food like that, you're like, that's just. That's darn funny.

I'm gonna cheat this time. Since you chose two characters that is tied with.

When Lewis has his flashback, they were like, why haven't you just played on one of those bands on the boats? He's like, I tried once. And he does this flashback. They're just jumping up, playing trumpet, and everyone proceeding to shoot at him.

Literally, like 40 rifles shooting at him. But then he just goes. Didn't end very well. I don't know. That old flashback is just so, so funny.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:12

It is really funny.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:14

All right, Favorite song.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:16

When we're Human.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:18

Ooh. When we're human. That's a good one. It's so hard because even, like, going down the bayous up there, almost there is up there. The other side's up.

All of the songs. Can I say all of them? Is that cheating? No, I'm gonna say I. I can't make. I'm really struggling here.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:41

It's hard.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:43

I'm going down the bayou for Vibe alone. Even though it's probably the least meaningful song. Just. I like the Vibe. Yes. Vibe's good, man. This is probably the hardest.

TJ Blackwell: 00:35:56

That's great.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:57

Like, to choose favorite scene, song, character for me. I mean, even Hercules. I love all the songs, but I know my favorite character. All of it. Like, I knew my favorite. That was easy. This one.

Genuinely difficult to pick a favorite. Maybe I should have gave the film A10. I'm not going to still 9.5. Because it's still no Hercules, but it's pretty, pretty close.

Okay, so as far as, like, where we can see some of these characters and stuff from the film in other places. You want me just to list a few that I wrote down, and then if I miss anything, you. You shout out some of the stuff that you know?

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:31

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:31

Okay. And then I have two that I actually want us to stop and talk about, so I'm not gonna list one of them. God, I don't know how to say the word. I should.

Had you done this? Trattoria al Forno.

TJ Blackwell: 00:36:40

That was good.

Joshua Noel: 00:36:41

Was it cool? It's like a little bakery, French kind of restaurant that's on Broadway. Disney on Broadway. Whatever, whatever that's called Boardwalk.

That's what it is. Boardwalk. So cool. It is character dining. You get, like, two or three of the princesses. Tiana is one of them. It's really good dining experience.

We had a reservation in m it once, and I'm sad about it still. Of course, Tiana's Bayou Adventures are placing Splash Mountain in several parks. However, Tokyo Disneyland still has Splash Mountain.

For those who want to see Splash Mountain. Bit of a trip, but you might be able to do it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:15

Yeah. If you still want to go to Splash Mountain, you have to go to.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:17

Tokyo, which I might be doing next year, but not specifically for Splash Mountain. I'm just gonna be there. While I'm there, I might as well see Splash Mountain. Cruise ships.

A lot of cruise ships will have Tiana's restaurant as part of the ship in the Disney cruise ships, which they should. I don't know why every park doesn't have her restaurant. I think it would just such an easy, easy pool. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:37:39

You know, gumbo is literally made to feed a bunch of people.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:42

And, like, you have a movie about a character getting a restaurant. Why wouldn't you just put that restaurant in your parts anyway? Yeah, of course. She's also in a lot of the parades.

She has a character meet and greet in Liberty Square, right near my favorite restaurant, Liberty Tree. That's not right. Yeah, there it is. You also have her restaurant.

Tiana's palace is in New Orleans Square and Disneyland, of course, in New Orleans Riverside Resort in Disney World. You also can see Tiana during some of the story time that they do at night.

Do you have anything else you want to shout out before I get to the ones I want us to actually talk about a little bit?

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:20

Are we going to actually talk about the gigantic, villainous?

Joshua Noel: 00:38:22

Yeah, yeah. I want. I wanted you to tell us about Dr. Facilier, villainous. Because I feel like that's appropriate.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:28

Yeah. If you haven't played Villainous, it is a board game sorta. It's like cardboard hybrid that has become really popular the last decade or so.

So good that Disney makes. And they make a lot of versions of Villainous. I remember what the original set included.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:46

There were six, and Prince John is one of them. And Ursula.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:49

Prince John, Ursula. They basically just pick, you know, six random for the first set, and then they pick three random for all the expansions.

But you only need three to play.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:02

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:02

So if you want to try it out, pick up one of the. One of the expansions and you play the.

Joshua Noel: 00:39:07

I told you about the newest expansion. No, I was gonna tell you later, but I guess that's not fair to do on a podcast. It's Davy Jones and then the. The Crab from Moana.

But it's just those nice Tamatoa. Yeah, I just like. I'm like, that's great, though. That's still worth it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:22

That is awesome. It is worth it. But they also do it for Marvel, do it for Star Wars. It's really cool. Really fun game. Facilier has a really interesting mechanic.

I think it should be impossible to lose when you're playing as Facilier, unless you're just really unlucky because this whole thing is magic. He manipulates the luck of the deck. He manipulates the cards you're drawing. It's super fun. It's the most engaging deck builder I've ever played.

Probably the only engaging deck builder I've ever played. Wingspan is still fun. Sometimes it's just a little annoying to all my Wingspan fans out there. Sorry. It's just how I feel.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:07

Yeah. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:40:08

But Villainous is awesome, and Facilier is broken.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:12

It's so funny because he just. Of course, every time TJ plays, he just, oh, you're my winning guard. I won. Yep.

TJ Blackwell: 00:40:20

Super easy.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:21

So funny, though.

The one I want to talk about is the absence of Princess and the Frog in Kingdom Hearts 3, because I am still upset about it, because Kingdom Hearts 3, one of the big criticisms people give it is that a lot of the world you visit, you always visit worlds in Kingdom Hearts, and they're always different Disney films. And a lot of complaints about Kingdom Hearts 3 is. A lot of the films they chose doesn't actually add anything to the narrative of Kingdom Hearts.

Like the first and second one, all the worlds you visit add something to the overarching story. And the third one, they kind of dropped the ball on That a little bit. This one fits the story so well.

When it comes to figuring out what it takes to get to your dreams, to make your dreams happen, I'm like, this is what the film's about. They're trying to include more modern Disney films, and instead they do Tangled, Big Hero 6 and Frozen. Really? I like Big Hero 6.

I like Frozen, Tangled. I understand why they put it in there. People like Tangled. But the thing is, Princess and the frog fits better.

Also, part of the narrative is about finding new princesses of Hearts. Why is Tiana not one of the princesses?

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:29

Tangled is also about following your dreams.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:31

The other biggest problem with the Tangled world in Kingdom Hearts, though, they had to make up a monster bad guy for you to fight because there just wasn't a great villain fight to do.

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:41

Could have just fought Gothel.

Joshua Noel: 00:41:42

Yeah. But imagine. Imagine if Princess and the frog was like, I think, honestly, I would have taken out Big Hero 6 and put this in. I love Big Hero 6.

I just would have fit better. But fighting Dr. Facilier and Heartless like that just sounds so freaking cool. And everything about this film really adds to it.

And then your characters being able to transform into frogs and stuff, like, it was such a huge opportunity. Also, they didn't have enough worlds. They could have just added it in at an extra level. They're not limited to a certain amount of worlds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just upset. Games should have been in the. Like, just.

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:14

Yeah. Games only, like, 60 hours long. They could have added another five.

Joshua Noel: 00:42:18

Yeah. There's absolutely no reason this wasn't in there. It fits the narrative.

And Tiana, like, the whole thing with this film was placing a black princess and solidifying her as one of the princesses. And I feel like the film does that so well. And Kingdom Hearts missed out. Yeah. That's my biggest complaint of anything in Kingdom Hearts.

I think, actually that they did not include Princess and the frog.

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:42

Yeah. They even had a fake white princess for the whole movie. Yeah. But Tiana marries the prince, so.

Joshua Noel: 00:42:48

Yeah. So she wins. Take that. And the thing is, Charlotte isn't, like, upset and begrudging of her friends.

She just supports her friend and loves her friend still, like, Charlotte just isn't a bad character. Like, respect for Charlotte. That's what I'm saying. Charlotte's a great Charlotte. Also really shows what systemic racism looks like.

It doesn't look like someone being racist. It looks like someone being complacent and not knowing that the system is biasing your race. Yeah. Which is exactly who Charlotte is.

And she's still a great person. And that's true of a lot of people. And that wasn't even the point of the film. That just. It was just there because they portrayed things accurately.

TJ Blackwell: 00:43:29

So, great movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:43:31

What was some of the point of the film that I think we should talk about at least briefly, given what our show does, is digging deeper as geekologist. Will's really making me harp on it. Okay.

Anyway, so doing some geekology, I want to say, like, there's this push and pull in the film of, like, work and dreams, right? Like, Tiana is going to, like, work hard. She's going to work real hard, and one day she's going to get a restaurant.

It's what her whole song is about. Also a great song. I'm Almost There. Fantastic. And her mom's like, okay, but there's something more important.

Your dad didn't get that thing that he dreamed of, but he had something more. And then even later, the voodoo queen's like, you know what you want, but you don't know what you need. You need relationship. You need love.

And then at the same time, you see Naveen, who's never had to work for anything, learning that. Yeah, no, sometimes you do have to work for things. You have to be willing to sacrifice, like Ray, the best character.

You have to be willing to give up things. Not everything's going to work out the way that you expect. And it's just.

It's so interesting to see where, like, even, you know, Tiana's told, hey, you've now, you've worked your whole life as a server. You might be a terrible business owner and they don't trust you necessarily because you've never owned a business.

And you see, like, how there's this push and pull of, like, do you work hard for your dreams or do you accept life as it is? Do you pursue love like Charlotte, or do you sacrifice for those you love?

And there's a lot of push, pull, and, like, nuance in this film that I think is challenging in a way. And what's funny is I don't think the film gives us a clear answer of, like, choose love over work or, you know, give up money.

I don't think it portrays money as evil necessarily. Like, I'm like, I don't think there's a clear answer in this film what to do with this stuff.

Yeah, tj, if you had to speak into this, like, the kind of balance that the film's touching on and talking to, is there an answer like, how do we Know when we're doing too much of one or the other, not working hard enough or, like, how do we know where we're at?

TJ Blackwell: 00:45:29

I don't think you can know that. You can only do what you can.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:34

Yeah, that's fair. I think. So I want to preface by saying a lot of people have to work two or three jobs to live, basically. And I acknowledge that.

Not really much they can do about that or nothing I know they can do about that except for, like, going to government, going for others for help if they can. That's not what we're talking about.

I do think people, including myself at one point, what's funny is I did this for ministry, actually work so hard because they have a dream or something they want to see happen that they miss the world around them. And it's really easy to fall into that trap. And I think that's what happens to Tiana at the beginning. Like, she misses friendship, she misses love.

She misses what her dad did have. Her dad had a community of people who would gather when they cooked, and they sat on their back porch and had meals together.

And it was beautiful and meaningful. And she missed a lot of this stuff as she grew up, as she really hyper focused on, I need to have this restaurant. I have to work and get this dream.

And at the same time, you see Charlotte, who's never had a dream, all she's ever wanted is love. And you see how, like, that's not really healthy either. And then you see Naveen, who.

You have all these different perspectives, who's like, hey, I'm cool with love. I'm cool with whatever.

His dream is just, he wants to live life, go out there and be in the moment, but he's so be in the moment that those that he could help and support and be there for, he's not able to help, support and be there for because he lost everything because he wasn't working hard enough. And, yeah, that's what I think this movie does really well. That nuance. D.J. might be right. There might not be a good way to know.

I think some clarifying questions are probably more helpful to ask yourself, like, are you missing out on what's around you? When's the last time you've spoken to your family? When's the last time you talked to your neighbor?

I think it's important to ask those questions and also to ask, like, if you're in a situation where you're struggling, you have money and you don't have enough money and all this, you know, whatever, but you're not trying to get a job. Like, to ask yourself, like, am I actually putting the effort in that I need to be putting in for my goals? And man. Yeah, that's a.

There's a thin line there.

TJ Blackwell: 00:47:37

Yeah, it's hard.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:39

Yeah. And I love this film for not making it look easy. And I love Ray sacrificing for you.

TJ Blackwell: 00:47:45

Make it look kind of fun, though.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:46

Yeah, they do make it look.

TJ Blackwell: 00:47:48

It would be more fun if I was a frog.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:50

That's true. We should all become frogs. That is our practical action for the day. Tj, if we all became frog frogs, how do you think the world might be better?

All right, I like that. If you're good to go out on that note, you want to go ahead and jump to our wrap up?

TJ Blackwell: 00:48:05

Yeah. So we're doing an extra question today, naturally, for patrons only.

We're going to be answering the question, what if we were chefs at Tiana's restaurant? Josh and I both have a little professional kitchen experience, so might, you know, throw us a couple dollars, find out what we're saying.

Josh, you have a recommendation for the audience today?

Joshua Noel: 00:48:25

Many, many such. You know, there are certain points in your life where you're like, I'm not gonna get that geeky. I'm not gonna become that nerdy.

Like, I'm not gonna cross that line. And one of the lines I drew for myself, I finally crossed. I said, I'm not gonna be the person who gets the Kingdom Hearts manga.

Now I'm the person who reads Kingdom Hearts manga, and I highly recommend it. It's phenomenal. You don't have the capacity to play the games. Maybe the books are the way to go.

TJ Blackwell: 00:48:51

Yeah, I understand.

Joshua Noel: 00:48:53

I crossed the line, and now I'm just learning to embrace it. Yeah. What about you? Any recommendations for those listening?

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:01

I can't in good conscious recommend somebody play Elden Ring Night Ring. No, you'd hate it. Yeah, it's really hard. Oh.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:12

I mean, I like hard things sometimes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:14

Then you should try it.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:15

Mm.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:16

It's extremely difficult, especially without friends.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:19

Perfect. I hate friends. That's true.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:22

So instead I'm gonna say, Star Wars Tales of the Underworld is actually really good.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:27

That's right. I saw some of it. I got to the Cad Bane part and I was like, this is great. I should ask TJ about it. And then I forgot.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:33

Yeah, yeah. Everyone should watch that. It's awesome. Massage of interest, Cad Bane. That's all you need.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:39

I always feel about massage of interest. I literally just forget that she exists. And then I'm like, oh wait, she's cool.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:45

She's cool.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:46

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We really appreciate all of our supporters on Apple Podcast, Captivate and Patreon. Today we're shouting out Justin Vaughn. You rock Justin. Man, I almost want to work camp just to see Justin. Am I allowed to visit just see Justin?

Maybe.

TJ Blackwell: 00:50:30

Maybe.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:30

So remember guys, if you want your own shout out like Justin, you too can just find tj, slip them a five dollar bill or support our show for three dollars a month on one of these three platforms. Apple Podcast, Captivator, Patreon. Do one of those four things. Pay TJ directly or Apple Podcast. Activate Patreon and you'll get your own shout out.

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Guys, if you want to hear more of our Disney Animation Eras playlist, there is a link down below for this series that you guys can listen to all of our Disney era animation stuff. It's great. We hope you all do one very important thing for us also. And remember, we are all a chosen people. A geekdom of priest.