The Comedy and Depth of Dandadan: A Discussion with Mark Flower

Christian Ashley: 00:01:32

How entertaining can it get when the supernatural, cryptozoological and extra restrial combine in one of the newest hit manga and anime around this is Systematic Ecology. We are the priests of the Geeks. I'm your host, Christian Ashley.

To join today by, of course, you know, the greatest yokai of all that's so mysterious that you can never see him, you can never wonder where he's at until he appears. TJ Blackwell. How's it going, tj?

TJ Blackwell: 00:01:56

Good, thanks.

Christian Ashley: 00:01:57

Excellent. But we're not alone. Today we're joined by a special guest, Mark Flower. How you doing, Mark?

Mark Flower: 00:02:03

I'm doing fantastic today, thank you.

Christian Ashley: 00:02:05

Excellent. Now, Mark, would you like to introduce yourself to the audience? Know where you come from, what you do.

Mark Flower: 00:02:09

Sure. I met a couple of you guys back in theology beer camp back in Colorado. I think it was in October, last in the fall.

I run a podcast called Grub and Grace here on the screen here, so you can find that anywhere. Podcasts are. I just started up actually right around that same time that I met Will and a few of the other people.

But the whole idea is, is the best conversation comes around the table. So around food and everything like that. So around that premise.

I tackle topics as lots of Christianity type of topics, like, you know, Bible, religion, all that kind of stuff. But then I also dig into more of the, like the fun topics like what we're talking today, like comics, manga, anime, all that kind of stuff.

And video games, music, everything like that too. So I tackle a whole range of topics. I think my most recent topic I came out with was about Christian. So I, I attempt to tackle everything.

I mean, it's just conversation, just getting around with friends and just kind of doing that. So.

Christian Ashley: 00:03:07

So what have you guys been geeking out on recently?

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:10

So me actually Jurassic park last night, instead of watching the Super Bowl, I watched Jurassic Park 1, 2, 3 and World.

Christian Ashley: 00:03:22

Wow, what a night.

TJ Blackwell: 00:03:23

Yeah, I would have watched the rest, but I, I wanted to go to sleep at that point.

Christian Ashley: 00:03:28

How about you, Mark?

Mark Flower: 00:03:29

I'm more of a manga person. Anime, all that kind of stuff. So right now, of course, you know, one piece is always a. An ongoing thing, but I've been really getting into.

What was the series called? I don't know. My Japanese. You know that one, that one's a great one.

Christian Ashley: 00:03:47

So good.

Mark Flower: 00:03:48

The Ultimate Exorcist. Kyoshi. Another one. What's it called? Oh, it's really good. Wild Strawberry is really good. Chainsaw man, all the, all those.

I mean, I could list off a bunch of them, but I just Kind of. I kind of rotate through them as they come out.

Christian Ashley: 00:04:04

Perfect. Yeah, I just stopped watching a finish. I should say Galaxy Express999, which is one of the older classic Matsumoto Leiji anime out there.

Basic premises, if you go on this intergalactic train across the stars to these different planets, eventually at the end, you can get yourself your own robotic body, and it's this journey of, like, what does it mean to be human? Like, what does it mean to, like, love one another, to work with each other? What makes us so different and everything? It's very fun.

It's very bloated, but it's very fun with over 100 episodes. So, yeah, there's that. So, gentlemen, today we're discussing Dan to Dan Season one specifically, is what we've been asked to do.

So I don't know beforehand. I know I've caught up with the manga. Tj, are you caught up with the manga?

TJ Blackwell: 00:04:53

I'm like, two chapters behind.

Christian Ashley: 00:04:54

Okay, maybe. How about you?

Mark Flower: 00:04:55

Two or three with most recent chapters. Yeah, I've been catching up with all those. Yeah.

Christian Ashley: 00:05:00

Okay.

So I knew we were going to have someone else on here who would not have been there, but we're just going to focus solely on this, even though we might be able to sprinkle a couple things here. So you'll probably hear spoilers today if that's something that you're not big on. You know what? Go in peace. We'll meet you next time.

So, gentlemen, how would you describe the. The manga anime extravaganza that is Dan to Dan?

Mark Flower: 00:05:23

You want to go ahead?

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:25

I don't even know where to start.

Christian Ashley: 00:05:28

That's a loaded question.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:30

It's like a. It's like a. It's like something you come up with in middle school. Like, what if. What if aliens and Encrypted fought each other?

Christian Ashley: 00:05:38

Like, you're not wrong.

TJ Blackwell: 00:05:40

There's so much more, though.

Mark Flower: 00:05:43

I think it's a beautiful fusion of the teenage angst along with the, like, the mysticism and the. The unknown of the universe. It's. It's like this beautiful. It encompasses like the.

The comedy along with this, like, almost like a Junji Ito sort of vibe. There's like creepy ghost sort of vibe to it. So it's got this whole everything all in one package sort of thing.

Christian Ashley: 00:06:09

Yeah, I mean, explaining what Dan to Dan is. Basically, we've got our two main characters.

We've got Ken Takekora, who will be known as Ocarun for the rest of the show because of our other main Character Momoe Yase. Both of them are in high school.

She is super into, you know, the spiritualism side of things because she has been raised by an exorcist essentially for all these past time. But she has grown away from that because of all the ridicule that she suffered under it.

And Okun is the kind of, you know, classic nerdy guy who's super into. He's hyper fixation right now, is on like Cryptids and aliens and wants to discover that they're real.

And he's always wanted to find an alien so he could be friends with one.

And the two of them, through some shenanigans, end up like challenging the other to go scout out a location to see, oh, an alien's been sighted here, or Yokai has been sighted here. And they find that they're very, very real.

And through this, parts of the body are lost and are now like the MacGuffin of the series to try and find them.

And they just find more weird and quirky characters who are fighting against other weird and quirky characters to try and stop the Earth from being invaded and stop Yokai from taking over parts of the Earth. It's a lot of good fun that there's some things that not being on, but we'll get to that later on.

But for the most part, I am in it to win it with this series. So speaking of like, what is it about this series that we love?

TJ Blackwell: 00:07:37

It's so goofy, it's so silly, but it's also very real. Like it's. It's so intense.

And then, you know, they'll go through this fight scene, they'll fight a giant monster and then they'll be like, oh, right, Ocar Rune's left testicle. Finally. That's what we've been after this whole time.

Christian Ashley: 00:07:57

Yes.

Mark Flower: 00:07:58

And he's missing in the face of absurdity. Like the entire series? Pretty much, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:02

The whole, the whole shebang. He's just lost it all. That's what we're after. Christian danced around the topic. I will not be. That is. That is exactly what happens.

Christian Ashley: 00:08:11

I was leaving it for someone else to do that dirty work for me. Yeah.

Because this is one of those series, you know how hard it is sometimes to convince your friends to get into anime or read a manga because okay, well here's the premise and you go, what? Why would I ever read that? No, no, no, trust me, trust me. It gets good.

Mark Flower: 00:08:30

This is good. From the get go. Like from the very first episode. It is fantastic. I mean, I. I started watching, like 10 minutes. And like, I'm like, this is.

This is engaging already. And then it just picks up the pace. It goes from 10 to like 200%. And it's just. It just keeps that level just the entire time.

TJ Blackwell: 00:08:50

Yeah.

I just happened to have a friend over the day the first episode came out, and he had never read Dandelion or didn't even, like, know it was coming out. I was just like, oh, dude, you should watch this. We should watch this. It's out today. You'll like it. He did not. He did not like it. He was like, what.

What are we watching? You know, it's a peak. We're watching peak. This is. This is one of the best series out, trust me.

Mark Flower: 00:09:16

Kind of. I mean, I don't. I'm not. I won't curse here on that. I don't know if you guys are for that or not, but I'll say it's a cluster F. Just, you know, I.

I didn't know what I was watching when I first watched it.

You almost had to go to the second episode, like, kind of regain your composure a little bit as you're watching it and just kind of figure out, okay, this is like, you know, this is what's going on.

Christian Ashley: 00:09:36

This show, this manga. It's so much fun. Like, the drawing is so well done. And this is a weekly. Not really a weekly.

I mean, but it feels like a weekly manga because this is on.

On the Ultra Jump instead of regular Shonen Jump, or it's done a jump plus kind of thing where basically, as opposed to the regular jump, you just kind of release whenever you can whenever you feel like it. So there's no, like, set schedule. And yet the way our mangaka here. What is his name? Let me look that up real quick. Yukinobi Tatsu. His work ethic.

Insane. The. His attention to detail is amazing. And I'm not an art person by nature, but like, I can still apprec.

Appreciate when someone has poured a lot of good work into this and like that. Not the track from the anime, which has done also extremely well with how they draw fight sequences and character interactions and everything.

But there's so much in there. If you're not paying attention to everything, you're gonna miss stuff.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:29

Yeah.

Christian Ashley: 00:10:29

But you can also see that there's a. There's a great story in here. We've got some great main characters here who then play off of some really good supporting characters.

And that's really what I care about more. Your plot initially is what drive me into watching a show. But like, what makes me stay is the characters and we've got a great cast.

TJ Blackwell: 00:10:47

Yeah.

Well, you got to think about what he was doing before this because before he started making Dan to Dan, he was an assistant on Chainsaw man and also Hell's paradise at the same time. And yeah, it's like. It's like skill based Nepo baby for himself.

Christian Ashley: 00:11:09

Yeah. Fujimoto's assistants have gone on to do great things like Hell's paradise like Spy X Family as well.

If I remember correctly, he was also one of his former assistants. So clearly if you want to work and you want to work well, you learn under Fujimoto, which sounds like a task.

I don't know if I want to get inside that man's brain, but I love what he does. So I mentioned the characters being one of my main focuses in the series. What I love. But what about you guys? Do you have a favorite?

Keeping ourselves right here for right now.

Mark Flower: 00:11:40

Oh, boy. The character development is so fantastic in the show that I don't know if I have one character that I can really say that I.

That stands out as the most. I think Okorun or Kentakakura is probably the most comedic just because of him trying to find his junk pretty much the entire time.

And just the awkwardness of just being this kind of like nerdy kind of kid that doesn't have any friends and trying to navigate the social circumstances. Of course, Momo is just fantastic just because she just goes off at just anything she can.

Just gets upset at every little thing that just happens throughout the show and all the little nuances and character flaws within all the characters too. I thought it was kind of funny when Ira came on that because she's so narcissistic and egotistical and.

And prideful and thinking that she's like God's gift to humanity. Once she. She kind of. I mean, I don't know how much I want to like give away, but there's certain things that happen that.

That even makes elevates that. That narcissism. And she honestly made me think of like an evangelical pastor, like a megachurch mega church pastor.

Just that kind of level of like narcissism. I'm not talking about like every mega church pastor. It's just that. That kind of stereotype. That stereotype of like megachurch pastors. So that's.

I thought that was kind of comedic when I. When I thought of that a little bit.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:18

Yeah, this is.

Christian Ashley: 00:13:19

We. We can freely talk. Spoilers for season one since that. That's what we're covering.

Mark Flower: 00:13:23

Okay. So she. She gets one of Prince Balls.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:28

Yeah. This is hard because, you know, we already the manga, so it's hard to, like, even know where season one is right now.

It's a lot harder to pick out a favorite character just for season one.

Christian Ashley: 00:13:41

Especially since it stops at the. The beginning of an arc.

Mark Flower: 00:13:44

It does.

TJ Blackwell: 00:13:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I. I was looking at the outline, and I was like, favorite scene. Well, it would have been in the next episode, but it's not. So not that.

But it's got to be Turbo Granny for me. Just season one, it's got to be Turbo Granny.

Mark Flower: 00:14:02

So it's Turbo Granny before she turns into a cat or after she turns into a cat.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:06

Oh, cat. Cat. Cat Granny. Yeah, definitely. Cat Granny is hilarious. It's such a good ad to the team. Just like, yeah, this is our evil spirit. She's a cat.

Christian Ashley: 00:14:18

She's.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:20

She's one of those.

Christian Ashley: 00:14:22

She's cantankerous and ornery, and she hates everyone. But you know what? She's part of the team.

TJ Blackwell: 00:14:26

She's so funny. She's so funny. I love her.

Christian Ashley: 00:14:30

Yeah. This was difficult for me to answer to limiting myself to season one because my favorite character has not shown up in the anime yet.

She will be there later on, but for right here and now, it's between Aira and Gigi, because I love different aspects of the both of them. Like, when you're talking about Ira, it's like, yep, I recognize that about myself. I recognize that about myself. I need to be better about that.

And it's just so fun to see someone, like, so think so highly of themselves, be humbled and yet keep certain aspects of that without being like, I haven't learned anything from what happened. And I think Ira is a good example of that. It's like, yeah, she's still haughty.

She still thinks she's better than everyone, but she's also learned how to be kind. She's also learned how to take care of other people and be more open about things. Then with Gigi, he's. Everyone needs a Gigi in their life. Just that.

That goofy doofus who. Who's there to help make you laugh, who's there to help make everyone okay. Because, yeah, he's got his own stuff he's dealing with, but he.

When you first look him up, like in any other anime or manga, he would have been the. The jerk to, you know, of being a love triangle between Ocaroon, Momo, and Gigi.

But here he's like, yeah, he still has feelings for it, but, like, he's not a jerk about them. He's like, okay, we'll fight for it. We'll also play soccer and we'll goof around. I love my guy.

TJ Blackwell: 00:15:47

Yeah. Yeah, he's good. Good arrival. Good arrival character. I. It's just. It's so unfortunate where it stops.

It's so unfortunate because so much happens so soon relative to when season one ends, which.

Christian Ashley: 00:16:01

There's that part of me. It's like, I wish they would keep going.

But also, knowing how terribly artists are treated, especially in the anime industry, I am very grateful that they have some time off because their work weeks are horrend. The amount of work that they have to get done is horrendous. So if they can get some sort of a break in that very toxic work culture, I will take it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:23

Yeah. Especially on a series that looks like this, it looks crazy. If you haven't watched Anded in and you're still watching this, stop what you're doing.

Go spend the next four hours to watch Dan Den season one and then come back and you'll understand. It's nuts. Literally.

Mark Flower: 00:16:40

It's. It's beautifully and artistically done. Especially like you're talking about the.

The director of this show that came from, like, Chainsaw man and what was the other one he said?

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:50

Hell's Paradise.

Mark Flower: 00:16:52

Hell's Paradise. Like, those are beautiful. Beautifully done. And you can see how that translated into Dan to Dan as well.

TJ Blackwell: 00:16:59

Yeah. It's so zany. I think zany might be the perfect word.

Christian Ashley: 00:17:03

Yeah, you're not wrong.

Mark Flower: 00:17:05

Damn it.

Christian Ashley: 00:17:07

All right, so we talked favorite character. How about favorite scene from what we've seen so far in season one, The.

Mark Flower: 00:17:13

The cow scene. I mean, it happens right after. I think one of the comedic moments in the show of right after they beat Nessie, the underwater thing.

And then they show up back in school and all the. Like, everyone sees them, they're naked, laying on top of each other, and they're just so tired from the fight.

But everyone sees that and they're freaking out because they're like, oh, no, we're naked.

But then it cuts right into the scene where they get to know the creature they were fighting, and they end up giving him a cow because it turns out that cow is milk. Cow's dairy milk is actually the blood of that creature, of that alien. And then they give him the cow, and he just. It's just such a quick scene.

It just happens. They give him the cow, and it zaps it up into the spaceship and takes off. I think that was probably my favorite scene.

TJ Blackwell: 00:17:56

It is so funny. It's so funny.

Mark Flower: 00:17:58

And on top of that, Siko. Is that how you pronounce her name? Sikh. Psycho. Psycho. Psycho, Psycho, Psycho. She.

Despite everything that she sees, she still does not believe that aliens exist, which is, like, so funny.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:15

Yeah, it's just a cat. Yeah. Staunch Denier. Staunch Denier. Big fan. I don't know for my favorite scene from season one. I really, really do.

Like, their, like, first alien fight, like, where they fight the. The Sumo guy. That's so entertaining to me. Why is he sumo? Who knows?

Christian Ashley: 00:18:36

Who cares? Awesome.

TJ Blackwell: 00:18:40

It's such a good fight in, like, Cir. No, it's. It's just this. The show's really good. I just. I. It gets so much better that I. I wish I could talk about season two already.

It doesn't exist yet.

Christian Ashley: 00:18:55

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so much to choose from. I had a hard time with this one too.

But I'm gonna settle for the sake of having an answer for the train fight with Turbo Granny and everything that has to work together perfectly in order for Turbo Granny to be sealed away. The trust that Momo and Ocarune have to have in each other for this to be pulled off, just fantastic.

Because I think we have two really great leads here that immensely flawed but also immensely fun to watch. And that early scene is what really kind of sets up. Yeah. We've kind of trusted each other before, but, like, here's the moment.

I think that, like, we're forever friends after this moment in time because of how it all comes together.

TJ Blackwell: 00:19:45

Yeah. Like, I don't. I probably could get three or four people to help me recover my genitals, but I don't know. That's. It's a tall order. It's a tall ask.

Christian Ashley: 00:19:58

I mean, you're not wrong, but I also think you underestimate yourself. I mean, you are the T.J. blackwell. I mean, everyone, I mean, would just jump at the chance to help you with that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:20:09

Yeah. I think I have, like, a hard cut off Three. Three. Three people to help Okorun is. Is not that unfortunate, as we'll see later.

Mark Flower: 00:20:19

I think a good consolation scene for me is when they finally get the. The first ball back and they decide how to put it back into Okorun. And I think it perfectly encapsulates this.

This awkward transition in the teenage years of.

Of this kind of, like, awkwardness and kind of painful, like, you know, you're going through with the acting and like, you know, you're speaking of junk. Like, your junk's growing out, whether you're, you know, you know, whatever gender, sex you are.

And there's just a whole bunch of just, like, things that just don't make sense.

Christian Ashley: 00:20:54

And.

Mark Flower: 00:20:55

And they decide to, of course, Turbo Granny throws it back into, you know, chucks it pretty much into. Back into him, while Seiko tries to, you know, hit it with a baseball bat. It's just this whole comedic scene of this.

And of course, he's in pain, but then he's like, it's back in. I think that's probably another consolation scene for me for the best scene.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:15

So good. It's so good. And one thing the. The author does, which is school you're from, you know, grubs. Grace Yokinobu.

After we get through the big scenes, every time in this series, they eat together.

Christian Ashley: 00:21:30

Yes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:21:30

They overcome this big obstacle, and they eat together. And he. See, his reasoning is like, yeah. He just thinks people that work hard deserve to have a good meal.

So I know every time he goes home from work, he's just. He's chowing down.

Christian Ashley: 00:21:42

Yeah. I really appreciate, too, because, like, is it pretty much every arc in one piece?

It's like, okay, we've earned this giant meal we're about to eat that, you know, Luffy can just devour and everyone else maybe get something. But, like, for them, it's, like, so well animated. It's like, well, I'm hungry now. Thanks for that.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:00

Yeah. And they started this one piece arc with a feast.

Mark Flower: 00:22:03

Mm.

Christian Ashley: 00:22:07

But there you go. All right, so we've done scene, we've done character. How about. And this is gonna make things even harder. Episode or arc so far?

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:16

No, this one's easy. The episode seven, I think it was, where they showed Ira's backstory, Silky's backstory.

Mark Flower: 00:22:26

I thought that was beautifully done. I. I'd have to agree with you. I think that was probably the best one. Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:22:31

Yeah. And it really. It shows, like, how deep the show can get despite the subject matter in a really phenomenal way. And it. It's done so well.

Mark Flower: 00:22:42

Well, it talks about. Talks about child or abuse in general. Child abuse. It talks about death. It talks about overcoming, like, trauma.

It talks about, like, all these different really heavy aspects, all in this, like, one or two episodes that kind of, you know, finishes up the arc.

So I agree with, like, that it shows you how deep the show can go, despite how being, like, campy and funny and just, like, off the wall that corny this is. But, yeah, It's. It takes a whole 180 with those couple episodes.

TJ Blackwell: 00:23:14

Yeah, it's so good.

Christian Ashley: 00:23:16

Especially, I mean he's still building off parts of that arc in the current arc in the manga with certain character that appears there as well and how she's affected by Ira's decisions. So I mean, I love a good continuity based story. You can do that. I mean, there's a reason I do love One Piece as well.

Not that it's One Piece show right now, but just like bringing up the similarities, like of what I come for. I come for characters. I come for world building. I come for, you know, bringing up things that happened before and how they connect to things.

And I think Van De Den does that phenomenally. How about you mark your favorite episode or arc in this season?

Mark Flower: 00:23:55

Well, I'd have to agree with it. I think the. The Aira backstory, I think clearly that is to me that is the best. So I agree with, with T over there that this is just.

It's just that depth that you get with the show. Whatever.

Like, I think what makes a show really good, doesn't matter what show it is, is if it has depth, if it's not very surface level, if it actually gives you more to think about and more to kind of process than just the surface level, like comedy or surface level, just storytelling is when you get that more meat and substance to it.

Christian Ashley: 00:24:30

Okay, yeah, Solid choice, both of you. For the sake of episode, I'm choosing nine, which is kind of the big battle between our Dover demon Nessie and then Ocarun Aira Momo.

As the school is kind of in this weird time space where they're away from everyone else and now at the try and fight, you know, actual Nessie, they have to fight a punching Mantis shrimp and all these things are going on. They're also learning how to work together with three people who are very not like each other and also very much like each other at the same time.

Having to learn. Okay, let's compensate for that.

Let's work together here and then coming out on top quite literally in on each other in a very not flattering position. I think it worked extremely well, especially when that the sake of that arc because like the Mantis ship could just be some generic mooc.

But then we spend an episode after like humanizing him and then like why would he agree to join this? Why would he help the Serpentoans or Sir Boeans, whatever they are? Because he's has. He's a mercenary because his son is dying of A rare disease.

And, like, yeah, it's a cliche plot, but, like, it's done extremely well. It makes you feel for him. It makes you think, oh, well, now he's a part of the team. He's not staying with everyone, but he's part of the team.

TJ Blackwell: 00:25:55

Yeah. And he's a vital part, too. Like current day. Probably like a top four character for me.

Christian Ashley: 00:26:03

Great choice.

Mark Flower: 00:26:04

It is a good character to have on top there.

Christian Ashley: 00:26:07

Yeah. So we've covered all that. How about getting to more of the meat and potatoes here? Like, getting closer to the themes and characters.

One of the big facets of the series, one of the most important parts it's hinged on is Momo and Ocarun's friendship and their relationship. So what are our thoughts on their interactions and how well that they play off of one another?

TJ Blackwell: 00:26:26

I think it's so cute. It's like it. It has.

I have the feeling it has to be reminiscent of, like, teachers when they see students that they think should date and, like, watching the students, like, get to know each other, that has to be what it feels like for them. It's so cute to watch.

Christian Ashley: 00:26:44

I like it, Mark.

Mark Flower: 00:26:46

Yeah, it. I agree, it's. It is cute to watch. It feels very much like.

I think one of you guys brought it up in the very first part of the recording here is that it feels like a middle school wrote this whole. Whole kind of love arc between this and then not just that you get.

You get this love triangle, love, quadrilateral, whatever you call it, between, like, all four of them, but specifically between Momo and Okoruna. I think it's just a fantastic. I think it really shows, like, the. That. That teenage angst that I was talking about, you know, the.

The theme trying to navigate through the mental, the emotional, the physical and the physical awkwardness of, you know, the love and the sparking feelings for each other and everything. So just navigating life in general with this other person that is so diametrically opposed to each other. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:27:42

It's like Comey can't communicate or Nagatoro, whatever that series is called, or Dress Up Darling, but it's actually good. And, like, I want them to be together. I'm actually cheering for Momo and Okorun.

Christian Ashley: 00:27:55

Slammed three series in a row. Two out of three I kind of care about. Not a fan of Nagatoro. So, yeah, I agree with what my co host is saying here.

Their relationship is so phenomenal, just not even. I ship it hard. Like, there's no other way to say it. I ship it pretty dang hard, the two of them together.

But their friendship is also so well done in this show, in this manga as well. Just these two people who are tj. I think you said diametrically opposed. Yeah, you've got a huge, like, fangirl. Oh, Mark said that?

Oh, sorry, my memory's not the best. Yeah, they're so diametrically posed in that.

Momo is a huge fan girl of the specific actor, ten Kakakor, who exists in real life, but she's also a huge tsundere about things and a very Gru kind of gal. And Okoroun's your typical closet, you know, geek otaku who's like, doesn't really stand up for himself, is very meek.

And you would think, well, they had nothing in common.

Yet when they actually talk with each other, when actually, you know, bond with each other over these very scary experiences, they learn, oh, you know, that's enough here for us to have a friendship to.

To hang out with one another, learn more about each other, and then just start developing feelings for each other, which, you know, always love that it's a shame paying isn't here for this one, because I know that's exactly what she'd be talking about. And I can't blame her because I also kind of ship Ira and Gigi, but that's another thing happening way later on.

But for our specific two main characters, they just play off of each other so extremely well. Momo's gruffness, Ocarina's meekness. And like them rubbing off one another. Momo becoming more kind, more caring.

Okram starting to stand up for himself as a result of this.

And yes, this show also doesn't do that thing that I hate so much, especially in romantic comedies or romantic anime where a misunderstanding is there and then no one talks. No, no, no. They force the issue. They actually say, hey, look, this is what you saw.

Let's actually discuss what actually happened so that we don't have, you know, five, ten chapters episodes where, oh, does he really like me? Or did he was in her arms? It's like, no, no, no, let's. Let's have a discussion here.

And they work because they're just that blunt with each other, and they can do that because of everything they've done with each other. So I believe that when it happens. All right, so another huge part of the show, obviously, is our monsters, our aliens, the supernatural.

So let's go in order. Like the. What are our thoughts on how the More super supernatural spiritual elements are handled within this series at this point.

TJ Blackwell: 00:30:37

Season one, it's kind of. I remember thinking early that, like, why do they both exist? What are we doing here?

So, like, they'll have cryptozoological elements and then they'll be like, oh, that's actually just an alien, but there are also spirits. The spirits definitely are just spirits, not aliens. I think it's really interesting what they choose to show because, you know, we're. We're American.

Yeah. Here, and so we're not super familiar with all of the yokai that get represented here because pretty sure they're not in Yokai Watch.

That's not quite how that series works. And that's most young people's exposure to what yokai are in general for, you know, like the target audience of the series.

So it's really just kind of fun to learn about what's going on.

Christian Ashley: 00:31:31

Mark?

Mark Flower: 00:31:32

Yeah, like, this definitely introduced me a lot to, like, you were talking about, like, yokai and the folklore, ghosts and the stories in the culture of. Of Japan and, you know, surrounding countries around Japan.

It definitely made me dig a lot into, like, the different creatures, like the different yokai, the different alien that are represented. What they actually like the references and the Easter eggs of inspiration that they pulled from in real life.

Like, in real life, the, you know, aliens and yokai aren't actually similar, but in the show they kind of blend the two together and they actually bring up theories within the show talking about how they're actually might be very similar to each other. Like the. In the show they have like, the aliens and the.

The yokai are able to bring beings into this kind of like, empty dimension space free from, you know, every. The other human. So anyone that has kind of the spiritual kind of power.

So that's why, like, Run and Momo and Aira are able to kind of come into these. These empty space dimensions and. And both alien and yokai are both able to go in there too.

So it kind of alludes to the fact that they might actually be more similar than. Than not. And. And there might actually be some reason to that. And they, they kind of talk about that in the show as far as.

Well, Okorun brings up a theory that maybe the yokai are protecting the Earth from alien invasion and the aliens are actually trying to be there and the aliens are trying to get the power from the humans that get the power from the yokai. And it's like this whole whole kind of thing that kind of goes inside that was really interesting. How they.

They kind of took inspiration from real folklore and then made this whole fun story. And if you know anything about where the inspiration of the show even came from, it came from Ultraman.

And I'm sure you're going to kind of get into that a little bit.

Christian Ashley: 00:33:23

Oh, yes.

Mark Flower: 00:33:24

So I think I'm just looking now at the document you have, so I'm sure that blends into the next question, but it's just super fascinating, kind of digging into everything.

TJ Blackwell: 00:33:35

Yeah, I. I really feel like. And maybe I'll be wrong. Hopefully I'll be wrong. I think it'd be a better story if I was wrong.

But I think at the end of this series, one of them is going to be right. Either there were no yokai or there were no aliens. Everything they fought was just one of them.

Like, through, like, dimorphic evolution or something, one of them was wrong. I feel like that's going to be the. The end piece to this series. I do think it would be a pretty funny last panel, but, you know, that's later.

Christian Ashley: 00:34:09

That's later focusing on the supernatural side of things, like, as opposed to you two. Like, I have studied yokai extensively and I say that, and I still don't know every one of them because there are hundreds, if not thousands.

Because, you know, when you go, like we've discussed previously in other shows, when you go to Shintoism, everything kind of has not exactly just a soul, but has a desire to be. How do I want to word this? Goodness gracious, I would have said it earlier. Can be worshiped in a way, in a sense.

And, you know, human beings have an ability to project onto those things and grant them power through, like a kind of topa ish kind of ability. And then you get to yokai and there's like, well, this region in Japan has this specific version. This region of Japan has this specific version.

They're the same thing. It's the same continuity. Even though there's no, like, one grand person writing the script for here's how this yokai is supposed to be.

So if it has different aspects in a different story, well, that's fine. Because unlike something as someone like me takes with scripture more seriously, there's no canon to things as opposed to yokai.

You can make up whatever you want, and that's fine. So when a series like this comes up, well, of course, Turbo Granny does all these things.

Of course, as we get later, Kuchisake Onna can do this, or Acro Silky can do this. So I love the way it builds off of stuff like, well, I can do whatever I want.

And that's fine because built on the same premise of we can do whatever we want, you can make a story, we can do whatever you want with it, while still keeping aspects of what came before. And I think they play that really well.

I think this comes a lot too, with, you know, Seiko and Momo's relationship too, of how she's viewed her as a fraud all these years, or like knowing it's not true the entire time.

But there's that great scene where she's on that public access show or whatever it is, and she's talking about this celebrity and she's saying, well, you do this. No, I don't. Well, you like this? No, I don't. And then everyone thinks that she's a fraud.

Then, like, later on it's revealed she was right about everything there.

But it's built on the premise that she can only use those powers within this specific region of Japan, which is also something super special and like the belief system there. So I think it does a tremendously great job of building all that up on the supernatural side of things. All right, well, how about cryptozoological?

Mark Flower: 00:36:22

Yeah, I mean, so I, like I said, I looked up a lot of these. These kind of characters, like Turbo Granny, she's based off of a legend just like that. It's Turbo Granny.

So this whole legend that on the dark night roads in the middle of the night, this older woman would start running after a car at top speed and try to knock on the side of the car to get the person to crash. Or the folklore goes, that might be another person, another car, another old lady, and she's trying to run the person off the road.

And it's trying to, a lot of people assume might be to give people the drive safer. And then you get the. The aliens there. There's a whole bunch with that. Like the Flatwoods monster with the, like.

You were talking about the sumo earlier. It's one of your favorite scenes. The Flatwood monster is. Doesn't actually show up like a sumo. They took kind of royalties with that.

He kind of looks like he has a. Like a collar head shaped like an ace of spades. So it's more of like a western sort of idea.

But then the theory goes on that it starts showing up across the world. You know, Okran starts talking about that and the Mantis shrimp, he's like the Dover demon.

So it's kind of fascinating, the real world reference to all these.

Christian Ashley: 00:37:42

They're Taking a lot of liberties with the original creatures.

So it's like the Dover demon is like this maybe two to three foot tall creature that just appeared in the town of Dover and was seen by a couple of people one night and then pretty much never again. So there's debate, you know, is it an alien? Is it an actual creature that lived there? Is this some kind of, you know, paranormal spirit?

It's most definitely not a giant mantis shrimp that likes punching people. But. But it's still fun what they do with it. You know, that.

That breaks, like, the canonicity of the actual sightings, but it's done in a fun way, so I don't care.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:17

Yeah. I mean, at this point, Bigfoot is just gonna be like Shaquille O'Neal. Straight up. It's just gonna be Shaquille.

Mark Flower: 00:38:24

I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like that in the show.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:27

Yeah. Which I. I wouldn't doubt at all. If people just saw Shaq in the woods, I would probably call the cops or animal control.

Christian Ashley: 00:38:35

That's scary. Like, I get it.

Mark Flower: 00:38:38

I'd want to get his autograph.

TJ Blackwell: 00:38:40

You see Shaq sprinting through the woods, but you can't. Yeah, but if you can't tell, it's Shaq.

Christian Ashley: 00:38:45

Yeah.

I've never, like, been right beside him, but I was at a game in Charlotte when he was playing against the Hornets, and I was close enough to him and go, that is a tall human being. That is an impressive, impressive specimen of a man. I am nothing before him.

TJ Blackwell: 00:39:00

Yeah. Just go to go to Staples, and hopefully your staple still has the Shaquille O'Neal cardboard cut out.

I take a picture next to ours every time I'm in there. It's super funny. I'm five six. He's a foot and eight inches taller than me. It's ridiculous.

Mark Flower: 00:39:15

I mean, it goes to with, like, anybody taller. I mean, you got, like, under the giant or anything like that.

I mean, if under giant was also running towards me in the forest and he was saying that you want a cookie? Like, I'd probably still run too.

Christian Ashley: 00:40:10

Yeah. Do you want to be my friend?

Mark Flower: 00:40:11

But it's like, anybody that's tall. I don't know, man. Kind of goes an idea of, like, the Nephilim, too. I mean, like, you know, the tall giants and everything like that.

So even in the Western, like. Yeah, that's not even the western. That's.

That's back with, like, the book of, like, Enoch and, like, in the early of Genesis and everything like that. But so I Guess Middle Eastern countries right in there. But, yeah, I mean, all these.

These, like, folklore and everything like, that kind of come from all around the world. And. And it's. Yeah, it's cool to see that they're even pulling because even in the very first episode, Akron is.

Is talking or Okrun, he's talking about how the United States government just classified UAPs. They're not UFOs anymore, the UAPs. And they're talking about. They declassified some of this information about how they're.

They're seeing some of this stuff. So they're bringing in influence from all around the world with this whole show.

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:05

Yeah. And I do want to say. And then I'll move on from real life people, at least Andre the Giant and Shaq are, like, proportional.

Like, if you just saw their silhouette, it'd be like, okay, that's a person, obviously. But if you look at people like Victor Winbanyama, who is three inches taller than Shaquille O'Neill and, like, 100 pounds lighter, that's a.

That's a scary. That's a scary image.

Christian Ashley: 00:41:29

Slenderman.

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:30

Yeah. Crazy player, too. That guy's nuts.

Christian Ashley: 00:41:34

All right, so we're done to the other two. It's time for extraterrestrials. Kind of covered a little bit earlier as well.

But, like, what are feelings on how extraterrestrials are covered in this show?

TJ Blackwell: 00:41:43

Real quick.

Christian Ashley: 00:41:44

Before that, Marcus brought up a great point and that if you know your Ultraman, you know how much of a nerd our writer is for this series, because some designs are straight up ripped from the original. Excuse me. The original Tokusatsu show. And more like, when we finally get to my girl Vamola, we'll see Gamora basically, as her Kaiju suit. Spoiler.

Sorry, I couldn't help it. But, like, the alien influence here has done extremely well too. So go ahead and take it away.

TJ Blackwell: 00:42:14

Yeah. Nope. It's awesome. That's all I have to say. It's sick. They're so cool.

Mark Flower: 00:42:18

It's awesome. Yeah.

Christian Ashley: 00:42:23

Because once again, this is built on the premise of.

Okay, if you're actually thinking these things through, which I think our author didn't, which is why he has that scene fairly early on where he's like, okay, well, if aliens are real, why haven't they just taken over the Earth? Well, in a series like this was because they have no counters to the yokai.

And, like, human beings are just not even a player, really, outside of those with spiritual AB typically coming from yokai. So the world hasn't been taken over because the world kind of already is taken over, in a sense by yokai.

So the fighting between the two, it's always one of those classic, like, who would win scenarios.

You know, who's going to win, you know, a European knight or Japanese samurai, or who's going to win, you know, the Dover Demon or, you know, the Turbo Granny. Like, we could throw that into the mix and then we can do that in a fun series like this. And it's just played off so fantastically well.

Mark Flower: 00:43:15

That's well put.

Christian Ashley: 00:43:18

Yeah.

So one of the things that I believe the show does best is establish villains or people with villainous intent and then give them reasonable motivations, you know, for making them act the way that they do. You think this is a fair assessment of the series or off base?

TJ Blackwell: 00:43:31

Yeah, no, that. It seems pretty accurate so far. I mean, there's no, like, they don't do the sociopath thing where the villain's just evil, because. So. Yeah, I agree.

Mark Flower: 00:43:41

Well, I do want to bring in Ultraman with this because I feel like this is a great segue into the. The Ultraman influence for the show is. So I never actually watched Ultraman. I. I kind of regret it. I never heard about it before.

Well, actually, I think I'd heard about it before because I think they just came out. That Netflix thing, it's like the updated Ultraman, the new series, but I didn't know much about it. So researching this topic, I.

I learned quite a bit about it. And.

And the whole idea of Ultraman was that Ultraman was this, I think was the alien that merged with humans to fight, you know, these other creatures. But Ultraman understood that these creatures aren't innately evil, they're not innately bad that, you know, intend to just destroy.

There's a lot more to it. They're part of nature. And the whole idea was to bring peace and science to take down these.

These creatures and to stop them instead of destroying them. Them. So it was kind of a push away from using like, militaristic power and finding alternative ways to. To try to combat this.

And I thought they kind of brought that into it, like talking about the, the acrobatic silky.

You know, they fight her, but then in the end it ends up being that they kind of have this dialogue with her and, and that because Aira dies, that this acrobatic silky, that's what her goal was. She just wanted to be with Aira. And they realized that and they're able to work with her and, And Figure out a different solution for.

For, you know, this whole mess that they're in. So I thought that was really beautiful that they kind of brought a lot of that aspect into the show as well.

Christian Ashley: 00:45:21

Yeah, I say in the Ultraman side of things, it kind of depends on the series really. It's all over the place. You know, with 20 some series, you're going to get different opinions thrown into the mix.

But most of the time he's not there to be like, everything I fight against is evil or whichever Ultraman is there.

Ultraman Cosmos is probably the most peaceful out of all of them in that he tries, does everything in his power not to kill whatever Kaiju is threatening them or a robot or what have you, because as you said, they're part of nature. They exist here. There are very few villains in the Ultraman franchise who are just like, we're just always chaotic evil.

We're just gonna like kill everything in our path because we are evil, because that's what evil people do. So, yeah, it's a great point brought up there.

And I think Akrosilke was just perfect too, because she lost her daughter and it was turned into the way she was as a result of regret and not being able to save her. And then she sees Ira call her mom. Just seeing her vaguely spiritually there for a moment.

And they're not related, but in the moment they've created a relationship built off of two people who need each other, even if they don't understand each other completely. And then it's done extremely well because everything she does there is to protect Iraq is to, you know, do what she couldn't do for her own daughter.

That's just fantastically done.

Mark Flower: 00:46:36

And the same thing goes with the manuscript too. The Dover demon, Manus Shrimp, they found a solution. I mean, he was like you were talking about.

He was, you know, he's down on his luck and became a mercenary because he wanted to have this blood transfusion for his child and he needed to make money for it. So he's taking all these. These, you know, risky roles of, you know, being mercenary, paid for, hired mercenary.

And when it was just as simple to solution as you just needed a cow.

Christian Ashley: 00:47:03

Anything for you, tj.

TJ Blackwell: 00:47:04

No, no, they're great. I haven't watched Ultraman a lot, so to me, these are just cool villains that are good.

And also my actual favorite character is an antagonist, but not in the series yet.

Mark Flower: 00:47:16

So I think I know who you're talking about, but I won't say anything.

Christian Ashley: 00:47:19

Hey, yeah, yeah. If it's what I'm thinking of. Very interesting.

Okay, so one of the things that's brought up as a shot against the show and part of which I'm actually kind of behind, is does the more childish humor in the show lessen its effectiveness or enhance it better?

Mark Flower: 00:47:37

Definitely makes it better.

Christian Ashley: 00:47:39

Two against three. Two against one. Okay. Yeah. So let me hear you.

TJ Blackwell: 00:47:44

It's funny.

Mark Flower: 00:47:46

I think it's great when you have this opposing kind of. Sorry about the opposing kind of theme with the serious. With the. The funny. I think it kind of alleviates some of the seriousness with some of the.

The funniness and campiness. So I think it's. It helps it out quite a bit.

TJ Blackwell: 00:48:03

Yeah, yeah. I think you.

It helps to take a step back from yourself, away from the wittiness and the cynicism of, you know, what is common, like the quippy Marvel dialogue that has become so popular to just. Oh, man, they're laughing about nuts. That's funny.

Christian Ashley: 00:48:21

See, that's what's so great about the show is that we have diametrically opposed viewpoints like this. Because I despise this childish humor for the most part.

Not saying I've never laughed at it because, you know, I was also a kid at one point in time, but it's just not funny to me. I think it's lazy. I almost, as I was reading the first chapter, like, man, do I really want to continue doing this?

Because, like, these jokes are not landing for me. I wanted. There was that part of me, do I drop this? It's like, no, I'll keep going because mama didn't raise no quitter.

And I'm glad because eventually it won me over with some really great characterization, really great story world building, all that stuff I talked about before.

But then you get stuff like I'm not a big fan of, you know, them all, you know, when they're in that negative kind of space and, oh, no, our clothes aren't off. That kind of humor just doesn't land for me. I know it does for you guys, and I'm fine with that. Like, I'm not saying you're wrong.

How dare you laugh at something I didn't laugh at. But it's just. It just doesn't work for me.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:17

Christian with the bad.

Christian Ashley: 00:49:20

Joshua isn't here. I had to have at least one. Okay. Knowing him, you said, oh, I love this show. But compared to other Anime, it's a three out of 10.

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:28

Yeah, he probably would.

Christian Ashley: 00:49:30

And we've all traveled to his new home, which they rightfully Deserve and would have beat him up for it. But you know what? That's fine, guys. Do you have anything else you'd like to bring up before we start to wrap things up?

TJ Blackwell: 00:49:44

This is. If I hadn't already. And I don't even remember what series made me start doing this. I do, actually. It was Attack on Titan.

If I hadn't already started doing that thing where I'll watch the first season of an anime and then read the entire manga to catch up, this series probably would have made me start.

Christian Ashley: 00:50:03

That's high praise.

Mark Flower: 00:50:04

Yeah, it definitely made me start reading the manga. I'd seen it on my list before. Before, but the little cover art didn't really engage me to want to read it.

But then after watching the show, I'm just like, okay, I gotta start reading this now because I gotta know more. In my. So in my little research here, I found out that the the same actor for Okorun was the same voice actor.

The Japanese voice actor for the and the series of Tokyo Ghoul, the Ken Kaneki. And then also Momo and Okurun also show up in a cameo in Marvel in a Marvel Academy.

Marvel's voice Infinity comic issue number 31, which just came out a couple weeks ago in January 29th. So. So they are officially in the Marvel universe.

Christian Ashley: 00:50:51

Everything leads back to Marvel.

Mark Flower: 00:50:52

Yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:50:53

No Uncle Ruin in Marvel Rebels.

Christian Ashley: 00:50:55

No. I love when artists do that. Just throw. Like, there's one in a very terrible dance slot.

Run a Fantastic Four where in the background, I think, like, Vegeta is in on, like, this alien planet they're at. I know at one point in time in Green Lantern, he essentially, you're in Lagon with his power ring to fight against someone.

When people throw stuff like this in, like, they win me over. It's just fun.

TJ Blackwell: 00:51:17

Yeah.

It's not quite the same, but Steven Sealberg will do it sometimes if you go watch Jurassic park, the scene where they're getting mad at Nedry for being Nedry in one of the windows that's open on his computer. He's watching Jaws.

Mark Flower: 00:51:32

That's great. I never noticed that before.

TJ Blackwell: 00:51:36

Yeah, it's really funny. And it's just barely on the screen.

Christian Ashley: 00:51:39

Perfect. All right. So as mentioned earlier, we like doing bonus questions for these things today.

Our bonus question for those who want to support us through Patreon Captivate is, what supernatural, cryptozoological, or extraterrestrial entity would we like to see the gang fight against next?

And now that I've all know we've read the manga I know that we can all name something that hasn't been fought there, so I'm interested to hear what everyone's choice is going to be. So before we go any further, rating and reviewing out of ten, how do we feel about this show?

TJ Blackwell: 00:52:10

Eight and a half.

Mark Flower: 00:52:11

I'd say six and a half. Manuscript out of six and a half.

Christian Ashley: 00:52:17

Okay.

Mark Flower: 00:52:17

I think it's pretty good.

Christian Ashley: 00:52:18

So, okay. Yeah, I'm giving this a solid nine. I love what they're doing here.

I have my gripes with some of the stuff, especially some of the stuff that comes later. Their characters I really love. And characters tonight, I want to love you, but we're gonna have to have a talk.

But if just season one alone, I think giving it a nine is fine. I might go higher in nine. 5. As manga goes on, if it keeps going on and keeps having the quality is. It may even up being a 10 one day.

I really enjoy this series. It's a ton of good fun. There's some parts that if you're like me, you just have to like, okay, just move past it. They're doing what they're doing.

Mark Flower: 00:52:56

But yeah, we're not making up our rating schedule. It's out of 10. I'd probably go nine and a half.

Christian Ashley: 00:53:02

Okay. Yeah, I typically do 10 because that leaves more of an option for me instead of like a five because I feel like, oh, what's a four? And a five is.

You know what.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:11

Yeah, I rate. I rate all anime on a scale of 1 to 86 mentally. And then I just have 86 to 1 out of 10. Have you ever seen Initial D?

Mark Flower: 00:53:23

I think I've seen a little bit of it.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:25

That's a. It's a Toyota.

Mark Flower: 00:53:27

Oh, wait, I have seen that one. Yeah, they made a Korean movie up based off that one.

Christian Ashley: 00:53:31

But yeah.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:32

Yeah.

Christian Ashley: 00:53:33

All right. As we start heading to the wrap up, guys, do you have a recommendation for the audience to check out?

Could be anime, could be manga, could be anything that exists.

TJ Blackwell: 00:53:41

I know it takes a lot more effort to check it out than some other things, but if you haven't gotten onto it yet, you got to play Marvel Rivals. Even if you're not a fan of the hero shooter genre, I.

I think it's great fun to just get in there and pick a hero you like if you're fast enough and have fun.

Mark Flower: 00:54:02

I'd say the manga Astro, baby. I don't know if you guys ever heard of that one. I. It just started, I think, sometime this last year. It is fantastic.

The whole premise is that there's this alien species that comes down to Earth and they. They take over humans and use the human's form to basically propagate themselves and to multiply.

And basically the humans that are trying to stop them, but one of them teams up. So the main character teams up with one of these aliens and take down the rest of the aliens. So it's very interesting.

And it's one of those that has pretty good art style and I everything like that.

Christian Ashley: 00:54:45

All right, I'm going to choose a movie I just watched too long ago, Korean film I saw the Devil. And if you actually watch the movie, you're gonna go, Christian, you like that movie? Yes, but there are certain parts, it's very.

There's some graphic stuff in there. Not for all audiences.

It's also a very bleak film and I typically don't gravitate towards that, but I think it earned its ending, which is how you can win me over with, you know, something that kind of goes on the darker side of things. So I saw the Devil. Pretty great movie, guys. Thank you all for all you do. Please you get a chance.

Leave a five star review in your podcasting platform of choice. If you're on YouTube right now, leave a like subscribe, leave a comment down below. Let us know how we're doing as well.

You can reach out to us@systematicecology gmail.com if you've got like a specific episode you want to us a cover. We love doing that. I believe Mark, you actually reached out to Josh about this episode, didn't you?

Mark Flower: 00:55:42

Asking if you guys will do an episode. Because I wanted to hear what you guys said and then he asked if I wanted to be on it. So I was like, hell yeah, I want to.

So yeah, I'm glad you got me.

Christian Ashley: 00:55:53

So hey, we wouldn't have had this episode with with Mark here if that did not happen. So let us know. We love doing stuff like this. So got as well. Thank you. Shout out to some supporters. Thank you. Ethan Overcash, Austin N.

Amber Riley and Jonathan Augustine. You guys are the best. We love what you do. But remember, we are all the chosen people. A geekdom of priests.