A Retrospective Analysis: General Ross and Sam Wilson in the MCU

Joshua Noel: 00:01:29

Foreign. We did a what's news? Looking at what's coming up for the mcu, but now it's time for a flashback.

We're going to be preparing for Captain America Brave New World. Not by looking forward, but looking at. Back at the history of Cap, the history of Hulk, the history of Thor, and it's going to be a blast. Why?

Because I'm Joshua Noel. Who cares about that? But I'm here with someone who makes every time a good time. Ryan does Ryan good time.

Ryan Does: 00:02:04

That was actually the bio line in my dating profile. Every time is a good time, not a great time. It's like an average time.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:15

Every time is an average.

Ryan Does: 00:02:17

I think I get back the other room, be like, he's lying to all of you, man.

Joshua Noel: 00:02:23

You know, that used to be my pitch to try and get people to go to Jack in the Box. Like, because, like, my. Here's my take. This is. This might be a terrible take of me. Yeah, yeah. After like, a hike or something.

Jack in the Box has never once when I have gone been bad. It's never been great. I'm not even sure it's ever been good, but it's never been bad. It is consistently okay.

Ryan Does: 00:02:49

You know, well, the thing with the thing with, like, a restaurant like Jack in the Box was we don't have a lot of here in the Midwest, but you know what you're getting and you know what level of quality to expect. So, yeah, if you're disappointed after a Jack in the Box experience, that's on you. That's not on Jack in the Box.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:09

Yeah. You just didn't know what Jack in the Box was. That's your fault.

Ryan Does: 00:03:12

Right. Like, Kim, my wife Kim has a, like, similar taste with, like, Taco Bell. And whenever she's like, oh, we should get Taco Bell, like, okay, cool.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:23

Yeah, we could. I actually do love Taco Bell to.

Ryan Does: 00:03:27

Get Taco Bell, though. If you take me to, like, a really good Tex Mex place, I'm infinitely more down for that. Yeah, but, like, Taco Bell is.

Taco Bell's the Jack in the box of Tex Mex food. Joshua. That's my hot take. It's not really, but, Joshua, I have a feeling you did not come. You did not have me on to talk about Taco Bell.

Joshua Noel: 00:03:48

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, they used to have, like, those Taco Bell deals when certain franchises come out.

So we're actually officially sponsored by Taco Bell here to announce. No, I'm just kidding. I wish that were true. It is not.

Ryan Does: 00:04:01

Desist letter is behind.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:04

It's fine. Don't worry about it. Guys, why are people so excited that the greatest Thor podcaster in the world is here?

Because they know your legacy and across the Bifrost. And if they don't, somehow, they've been living under a rock. Ryan, you want to unpack a little bit about, like, what is it you do?

Like, you have two other podcasts, Give Me Church, which is wonderful.

A little less relevant to this show, but we're gonna have you on the whole church podcast also in network with Lana Zao to talk more about skipping church. So while we get you here, though, with all the geeks, unpack some about what you do with Thor at Across the Bifrost.

Ryan Does: 00:04:41

You're right. We. I.

Well, I do want to talk a little bit more about skipping church later on, because I have listeners of this podcast might be interested in our next newest episode.

Joshua Noel: 00:04:51

I'm really excited for that one.

Ryan Does: 00:04:53

Yeah, some handsome co host that I'm working with tonight. But, yeah, there's a lot of fun. But Thor doing Across the Bifrost has been three years of.

Honestly, I started that podcast because a friend of mine said, I mean, it was post pandemic. You know, we were all, you know, every white guy that looks like me had a podcast. So we're like, you know, whatever, let's roll the dice. Let's do it.

And he said, do 10 episodes about a topic you just love, and then, you know, see what happens.

I think fourth calendar year: 2025

Well, we're finishing up a series on Walt Simonson's run of Thor, one of the classic legendary runs with the character. That one's been a lot of fun. I have a few co hosts.

That one that was very familiar to people here on Systematic Ecology, but Will Rose pops in from time to time because Thor is on his pull list for comics, so makes sense that Thor would. Will talk Thor with us. And then two other co hosts, Faz and Eric. They are. They are. They love Thor more than I do. Like, I'll just say that, like, I.

I may be the Thor guy when we go to beer camp or when I'm on shows like this Joshua, but those two know more about Thor than I could ever hope to know. They're currently. Listen how crazy this is. They are currently reading through every issue of Thor ever to 100 in.

I think the goal is they read it all this year.

Joshua Noel: 00:06:38

Well, let them know. In my humble opinion, if they don't also include the original Norse documents, that that's not every issue.

Ryan Does: 00:06:48

Okay, I will pass along that message. Yeah, Cross. The Bifrost is a lot of fun. Every so often we have creator interviews.

eally excited about it. Like,: 2025

And we're excited to see, you know, we're excited to see what happens in his comics and in any Marvel related news that happens with him, man.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. I've never been a huge Thor guy, but you make me excited for Thor. It's usually more of like, like, in my mind, this is so weird.

Like, like I'll hear something coming out with Thor and I'm like, man, I can't wait to hear Ryan talk about, like, I'm not even. Like, I can't wait for the content. Like, I can't wait for the content about the content.

Ryan Does: 00:07:40

It is kind of funny how, like, that is a more common. That's more common than you'd think when people are like, oh, Thor cool. Chris Hemsworth. Right.

And then, you know, they'll check out the podcast and be like, oh, that's a lot more than I thought it was in terms of just the content and what we're able to talk about.

Joshua Noel: 00:07:59

Oh, yeah. I mean, from what I understand, you even talked about Donald Duck on there once.

Ryan Does: 00:08:04

We did. Because this last year, Joshua, you did join me for that issue, didn't you?

Joshua Noel: 00:08:11

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was great.

Ryan Does: 00:08:13

Yeah. Joshua. Yeah, Joshua was on this last summer, late summer, we talked about an issue, a one shot, where Donald Duck becomes worthy to lift Mjolnir.

And it was zany as hell. That was a really fun episode, brother.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:30

Oh, yeah, yeah. So. So that's the thing. If you guys, you guys like Ryan and you like Thor or anything geeky, really, you got to check out across the Bifrost.

In my humble opinion. I think one thing we do really good at systematic ecology is like, we have a good group of host and we interact well.

Ryan Does: 00:08:45

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:08:45

But like, I don't think there's very many people that could be like, they have the interview skill level of like, Ryan does. Like, like, like, honestly, like, as a listener, I'm like, man, you can make me Interested in anything.

And then also there's this thing of, like, when I've been interviewed by you, I'm like, man, I feel so good about myself afterwards. I'm like, I kind of like, I have a bad day and I'm like, damn, I just wish Ryan Doze would interview me right now.

Ryan Does: 00:09:11

I appreciate it, man. Honestly, like, I. I used to take the super humble route with this or be like, no, I'm not good at it.

But honestly, I thank you for saying that because I, I do work really hard on it and I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy asking questions of other people.

Joshua Noel: 00:09:28

Yeah, I mean, that's something I had to work on too.

Not being like, no, I'm a terrible podcaster because I'm like, you know, actually if I call myself a terrible podcaster, that makes people not interested in the show. And ah. So, you know, I've been. We're getting off the rails, but it's fine. It's evening. That's what happens in the evening. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, this was really more of an excuse to talk to Ryan than it was an episode. Sorry, guys. But, you know, like, I've been getting more into like the Dash Taoist stuff that I've been interested in for a long time.

And one of the things that's been really challenging to me, Lao Tzu has this, like, you don't make too much of yourself or too little of yourself. And I feel like the Christian circles I grew up in is like, always humility, always don't make too much of yourself.

And like, you, you're drilled into your head and you're a worm, a worthless worm. And then he's like, no, don't do either. Because if you make too much of yourself, people are going to put you down and put you in your place.

And if you make too little of yourself, then that makes everybody else kind of not want to be around you. Because it's almost has that like, opposite effect thing, right? Where like, you're putting yourself down.

Like, like, when you call yourself a bad interviewer, I'm like, well, hell, what's that make me? Actually makes me think of my grandpa. This is really. I promise we're gonna get back on the rail.

It's makes me think my grandfather, we played golf with him once, right?

Ryan Does: 00:10:39

Okay.

Joshua Noel: 00:10:39

It's because something he loved to do and he had a. Like, we all hit our balls and we didn't. Like, we barely went anywhere.

And then he went like flying way out there somewhere, but it like, was slightly off the green. He's like, you know what? A blind man with one leg, no arms could have hit that. And we' like, well, why does that make us so.

Ryan Does: 00:10:58

Yeah, Joshua.

Speaking of guys hitting their own balls and not getting anywhere, I feel like the first few minutes of this show has been two guys just absolutely not really getting anywhere. And we should probably talk about Captain America because there's a fantastic movie about to come out.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:17

Gosh. Yeah, I can't wait. All right, let me run through some stuff.

If you guys are live, if you do end up jumping in and you want to shout out where you're from, let me know. I'll throw up on the screen because I like live people. But right now I don't see anybody. So if you guys join later, just do that. It'd be cool.

If you're on a laptop, consider rating reviewing on Podchaser or GoodPod. That helps our show with search engines. Something about algorithms. I don't know. You're probably on YouTube, so just like and subscribe there.

If we get like 50 likes on anything, Will's either going to frolic through flowers or snow or something. He mentioned swimsuit. I assume he means a speedo.

Ryan Does: 00:11:50

Do that if you don't get 50. Yeah. His afternoon routine.

Joshua Noel: 00:11:56

It's just whether or not he'll video it.

Ryan Does: 00:12:00

Yes.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:01

Yeah.

Ryan Does: 00:12:04

Like his recent trip to Utah where he was snowboarding. Man, that would have been a great.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:10

Place to frolic in a speedo through the snow.

Ryan Does: 00:12:13

Yeah, like, speedo snowboarding is what I was really hoping we'd get, but there's always next time.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:19

Yeah, it's fine. Also, if you guys are supporting the show on Apple Podcasts, Captivate or Patreon. We really support. We support.

We really appreciate you for your support. Special shout out to Amber Riley today. She's one of our sponsors.

If you want your own shout out, you can support the show for $3 a month or more on one of those three platforms. Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon. I think that's all of the legwork before we get to, like, normal, like, comic stuff that we're going to get into.

Yeah, I kind of want to just kind of hear what else you've been into lately. So I thought it might be cool if we did a little bit of a lightning round.

Ryan Does: 00:12:56

Absolutely.

Joshua Noel: 00:12:57

With the one and only God of Thunder.

Ryan Does: 00:13:00

Yes. Yes. Dramatic and appropriate. Hit me with.

Joshua Noel: 00:13:04

Yeah. Yeah. So what have you been geeking out on? Just, like, spit out as much stuff as possible. You don't even have to give context.

Ryan Does: 00:13:10

Okay. So been reading Quite a few comics lately. I just got caught up with the absolute Wonder Woman series. That is killer.

Kelly Thompson is a master of the craft of writing comics. And also, like, I'm a huge Aquaman fan. I have an Aquaman tattoo. It's the first tattoo I ever got all over my forearm. It's gigantic.

And Aquaman just had his own book come back onto the DC line. And it's so good, Joshua. Like, it's. It's monster fights. It's like intergalactic space faring pirate stuff. It's fantastic. I really am enjoying it.

I can't wait for issue two to come out next month. And honestly, man, I've been getting hyped for a few movies that are coming out. I want to see Nosferatu. I want to see Wolfman.

There's a movie coming out called Mickey17 that I'm really hyped about. It's got Robert Pattinson in it.

season that's gonna happen in: 2025

Will it be good? My hopes are low, but I always enjoy joke here and there. Yeah, that's. That's all I can think of. Off top.

Well, I mean, you know, I'm also a big basketball fan, so I'm. I'm repping my Milwaukee Bucks tonight. I love Milwaukee Bucks basketball, too. So I. I guess I'm geeking out on. On Bucks basketball, too. So that's.

That's all I can think of off top of my head, man.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:05

Nice. Yeah, I was going to mention that. That Aquaman for myself, too.

I wasn't sure if that was part of the Absolute series or not because, like, I know nothing about what's going on in D.C. other than the other comic I'm reading. Is that that new Justice League that started? I don't think I want to start.

I know the second issue came out literally, like Christmas Day or something.

Ryan Does: 00:15:22

The Justice League Unlimited.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:24

Yeah. Yeah, I really. I've enjoyed that so far, even though I think it's been pretty predictable. It's still fun.

Ryan Does: 00:15:31

Third issue came out today. Today.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:33

Did it really?

Ryan Does: 00:15:34

My boy Aquaman is in the last three pages. The last three pages. Joshua, if you think the first two issues have been Predictable. The last three pages of issue three are very unpredictable.

Joshua Noel: 00:15:45

Perfect. Well, that's what I'm going to be kicking out on right after this.

Also, Kingdom Hearts, Birth by Sleep's, like, 15th anniversary just happened or something. So obviously the creator was like, hey, remember all these crossroads? That's going to be significant for Kingdom Hearts 4.

That if we follow the trajectory, it'll probably be in like, 10 years when that comes out. But naturally I'm like, well, I got to play every single game and look for these crossroads now.

So I've been doing that, planning maybe a potential episode with. With Nick Polk and some people that I've been meaning to invite Ryan to, but I kept forgetting.

Ryan Does: 00:16:19

If you personally ask me, he's so nice, so charming.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:25

He is very nice and charming.

Ryan Does: 00:16:26

We get it.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:27

Handsome, you know. But no, I. We started a Nick Colt on the show. I don't know if you've been paying attention to that. Oh, yeah, tj.

I don't know why Nick came up out of all reasons. Like, I used him as an example when we were talking about dead space and the cult in there.

And for some reason I used him as an example, and TJ was like, yeah, so the Nick Polk cult. And I'm like, sure. And then that just keeps getting brought up. I guess we're starting that cult now.

Ryan Does: 00:16:53

Sign me up.

Joshua Noel: 00:16:54

Yeah, but no, for real. Have him. Josh Patterson might be involved. We're unsure. I'm going to invite Ryan as soon as I remember to.

Actually, I guess I'm inviting him right now.

Ryan Does: 00:17:03

You're bringing up some of my most favorite people in the whole world.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:07

No, but we're going to be doing an episode on the Alias comics from back in the day in the Jessica Jones Netflix series, because it was inspired by a whole church episode, weirdly enough, where they're talking about love and controlling and whether or not all loving God can ever control someone. And I'm like, well, you know, Mr. Purple, Mr. Kilgrave there has got a. Got a lot to say about whether or not you can both be loving and controlling.

So we're gonna talk about it.

Ryan Does: 00:17:33

Coercive love of God.

Joshua Noel: 00:17:38

Is God like Kilgrave? I hope not. I really hope not. So what a. What a bad guy name? Whoever came up with that was like, I know the baddest bad guy name. Kill Grave.

It's perfect. But no. So I'm excited about that. Getting into those again. Also been trying to catch up on the. The current or. I think it's still current. Swamp Thing.

Run. God. There's a lot there, and it's dense. The problem is the same problem I had when I tried to catch up with Ice Cream Man.

Like, I would read something and every now and then there would just be an issue that hit you and you're like, well, I keep. Can't keep binging. I literally have to stop and breathe right now.

Ryan Does: 00:18:17

Yeah, Yeah. I. Honestly, dude, I, I. One of the last times we talked, we got around to talking about our mutual love of Aaron Sorkin shows. Watching the newsroom.

I'm like, four episodes away from being done with the newsroom, and I gotta do that. Where. Yeah, dude, you talk. You talk about the newsroom. Without me, there will be fisticuffs. I'll find wherever this new house is.

Joshua Noel: 00:18:44

Yeah, I've also been kicking out of my new house. Um, no, truly, this. This is like the weirdest geek thing. And we'll end the lightning round.

I have been dying to get my Indiana Jones poster behind me again. I've done way too many recordings without Indiana Jones behind me. I need him having my back.

And like, all of the memes on my Instagram right now of Elon Musk followed by Harrison Ford doing the I hate, I hate Nazis. I'm like, I've lived for the day where this would be relevant. I just, it wasn't, you know, relevant. Oh, man. But now time for the main event.

We gotta get ready. We have to get ready for the new Captain America movie. And what other way would you do that other than, you know, reading like a, Like a Thor comic?

Ryan Does: 00:19:32

Right?

Joshua Noel: 00:19:33

Yeah. So I got two picked out that I thought would be fun to talk about that. We're gonna get into as much as we can. Yeah, Hulk number five by Jeff Loeb.

And then we're also going to Talk about Thor 390 by Tom DeFalco. Also, there's like whole teams on there that's just like, if you look up that name, you can find out all the other information.

So, like, having a name associated with it helps. Me listing all the names just gets too much for my little head.

But let's start with Hulk, actually, since that's the one you recommended me when I was like, hey, Red Hulk, Thor, did this ever happen? And you were like, oh, there's an action packed comic. Let me tell you all about it. You want to unpack some of this?

What is Hulk Number five, issue five, all about here?

Ryan Does: 00:20:20

So this is. And I'm by no means a Hulk expert, but this is a really fun run because Jeph Loeb, anybody who Knows this name from comics.

He's probably most famous for the Batman Hush story. But he was doing this run on Hulk and no one knew who Red Hulk was yet. Like, it hadn't been revealed that Thunderbolt Ross was Red Hulk.

So people are trying to. Different people are trying to take their hand at stopping this Red Hulk. And this issue.

It comes after issue four, where in San Francisco, Red Hulk has stopped the. At the green Hulk, the original Hulk. And Thor shows up in the last page of that previous book and says, basically, dude, your. Your.

Your rampage stops now. I'm about to whoop that ass. And so this issue is an entire fight between Red Hulk and Thor. And so many crazy things happen in this fight.

There's very little dialogue in the first half of this comic because it's just a smash them up issue. Red Hulk finds a way. Really Jeph Loeb as a writer finds a way around the worthiness enchantment because Red Hulk is not worthy to lift Mjolnir.

But in zero gravity, he's able to use the hammer on Thor in like the very outer reaches of subspace. They fly all the way up there and Red Hulk takes care of Thor, which, you know, don't. Don't love that. Don't love seeing it.

Thor 390 is much more uplifting. But then Red Hulk goes back to Earth and he's met by a revived Green Hulk. And then Iron man, who is at this point the director of S.H.I.E.L.D.

after the mark Millar Civil War story, which is. I believe I've. I've told Joshua this in the past. Civil War is my favorite event that Marvel has ever done.

And because I second this, it's always relevant. It's just. It's such a great, such a great story. And Mark Millar is such a great writer, but yeah, he's met by Iron man and Ben Grimm is there.

Listeners of across the Bifrost will know I'm a huge Ben Grimm fan. Love the Thing. Thing that actually, Joshua, the Thing is a top five Marvel character for me. And it's not even really close.

Like I'm a Ben Grimmon fan.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:04

So that's how they're slowly making it up there for me after the. That one, like, miniseries. Was it last year, the year before? Something like that?

Ryan Does: 00:23:11

Yeah, the Steve Scroche miniseries where he teams up with Hulk and Wolverine. And yeah, I really loved that series. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, that's how Hulk 5 ends, man. It's really just a fight issue.

Meanwhile, they're trying to Unravel this mystery of who is the Red Hulk.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:32

Yeah. Going in without any context, just reading the one issue, I was like, this is fun. Until like both of the.

For me, both of these issues have some weird stuff that they do with van mirror that I'm like, okay, Red Hulk just goes. As long as Thor's holding hammer, I jump in space. Hammer have no wait.

Ryan Does: 00:23:54

And he just.

Joshua Noel: 00:23:55

Literally just jumps to space.

Ryan Does: 00:23:57

It's so simple that it's genius.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:00

Yeah. So I am trying to figure out some stuff about Red Hulk. I remember seeing the different colored Hulks. This is weird. In the animated series.

Like the: 1980

Ryan Does: 00:24:12

Okay.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:13

And they're like bits and pieces I remember from that that seem to not necessarily carry over to other stuff. So I seem to thought. I was under the impression that like Red Hulk was like angrier Hulk, stronger Hulk kind of deal.

And this just kind of seems like he's just a Hulk but red instead of green.

Ryan Does: 00:24:34

Right. And by the way, Josh, I don't mean to comic book guy you, but Red Hulk was created like 15 years ago, so I don't know what you were watching.

I think it might have been. Was it. Was it Hulk Agents of smash?

Joshua Noel: 00:24:50

No, there's a.

Ryan Does: 00:24:51

That series is awesome.

Joshua Noel: 00:24:52

I'm gonna look up what. What this was.

Ryan Does: 00:24:54

Okay, cool. Oh, Red Hulk is. I think Red Hulk has grown and matured in the characterization. But yeah, I mean, it seems like it started out as more just a.

An angrier, different color coded Hulk, but now like Thunderbolt Ross being the Red Hulk for so long, I think they've really kind of distinguished the characters. Well, it'll get to a suggestion later on if people want to read more Red Hulk.

I have a suggestion of something that you could check out that really highlights the difference between Bruce Banner and Thunderbolt Ross.

Red Hulk is a more recent character listeners that I think could easily have been like a one hit, kind of like one time villain, but has really not just been like a rogues gallery member for Hulk, but also become a really important supporting cast because often Red Hulk pushes Thor in a way that other people either can't or other people won't.

Especially in the Hulk Agents of SMASH animated show, which is again, fantastic version of this character voiced by one of my favorite voice actors of all time, Clancy Brown, famous for so many different roles, most famously Mr. Krabs from SpongeBob. But yeah, that's. That's a great. That's a great thing to check out if you want more Red Hulk.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:24

I think I figured it out. I think I was thinking of Gray Hulk this whole time.

Ryan Does: 00:26:28

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:29

I think I confused those two things.

Ryan Does: 00:26:30

Grey Hulk is a vibe.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:31

Yeah.

Ryan Does: 00:26:31

Grey Hulk is way different because not red Hulk at all.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:36

Yeah. Ah, man. Sorry. There are a lot of different Hulks. I apparently am easily confused.

Ryan Does: 00:26:42

We even see a bomb in this comic as well. A bomb is another version of a Hulk.

Joshua Noel: 00:26:48

Yeah. The issue was a lot of fun though. A lot of smash them up, beat em up things. I've always loved my loves.

I've always found General Ross to be one of those characters that I'm like, I love when he's in a comic. Not because he's like a great foil or anything. It's just like his character is, I think, what it is.

It's so realistic that it's able to make me go, okay, so what if this did play out in real world? Because, like, General Ross is one of those things that you could see him existing in real world. Like I see him. Yeah. All right. Okay. Thor390.

I got this. Tom DeFalco, Avengers assemble friends.

Ryan Does: 00:27:25

Brett Breeding, Ralph's Macchio. Come on. This is where I live.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:29

I'm bad with names. This is why I listen to across the Bifrost. To hear other names that I don't.

Ryan Does: 00:27:34

Damn right.

Joshua Noel: 00:27:36

Oh, man. So this one was really. This was interesting because, like, it's like guest featuring Captain America.

This is like the Captain America Thor buddy film. But it's also definitely an Avengers comic. It's so interesting. So Thor just kind of lands in the middle of. Apparently Avengers have their own island.

I was very clueless going into this issue going, okay, I think I missed this particular era of comics at some point has the Black Knight in was such a cool comic. Yeah.

Ryan Does: 00:28:06

Live Marvel guy for me, I. I.

Joshua Noel: 00:28:09

Mean, I was super into this. I didn't realize Captain was Cap, just Captain. He was not Captain America, just Captain.

And they had that whole storyline and like the whole, you know, Tony Stark utilitarian thing and how Cap is still honorable. Is this the first time Cap picks up Mamir?

Ryan Does: 00:28:29

So by my recollection, and some unwashed neckbeard out there can correct me on this, Feel free. Your gold star is in the mail. I believe Cap. Steve Rogers is the second person in comics to ever wield Mjolnir.

The first other than Thor, but the first being Beta ray bill in Thor 370, 337. So, you know, less than 60 issues later, you have Steve Rogers lifting it.

And for the record, like, Steve lifts it for a page, he Lifts it to get out of. Underneath all of the henchmen of Seth. Seth, the serpent God of death. His henchmen dogpile him, and the hammer helps him get them all off him.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:20

Then he.

Ryan Does: 00:29:20

He immediately throws it back to Thor. So it's not like we see him, like, you know, just hucking it around and bashing people in the face with it.

He's really just trying to get the hammer back to Thor. But Thor does make it very clear, like, the reason you were able to lift it is because you're worthy Steve Rogers. That's why.

And they have a good conversation at the end of this issue about worthiness and how Steve has kind of joined a fraternity of very few. So by my count, Joshua, Steve Rogers is the second person other than Thor Odinson to carry Mjolnir at this point in the continuity of comics.

Joshua Noel: 00:29:59

Man, that's cool.

Ryan Does: 00:30:01

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:01

And I love how it happened, too. And it kind of ties back into our.

Like, our little bit of rambling that we did at the beginning of this, because he wasn't even like, I know I'll be worthy. Let me lift this. He was just, like, swamped. He was like, wait a minute. I shouldn't be able to lift this.

Only people who are worthy to be Thor are here. Thor. And I'm like, wait, hold up. Obviously, you picked it up. You should know at that point, just like, oh, hey, I guess I'm worthy. That's cool.

Ryan Does: 00:30:24

No, I mean, yeah, it's true. Because I think of all of most Marvel characters that we like are heroes, but Steve is kind of like the hero of heroes because.

Not because of his powers, not because of what he's capable of doing, but because of what he stands for and how he stands for that thing being honorable, being upright, being, for the most part, you know, a paragon of virtue. I think it makes total sense.

Joshua Noel: 00:30:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I'm gonna let you unpack a little bit more, because I feel like I just started jumping in talking about it.

But for me, the action part was cool. Thor showing up and be like, why is the world so freaking different now? Was like, that was funny. I liked that.

But, like, it really, like, the thing that, like, I was like, oh, this is good. This is good. Was near the end, that conversation you were talking about. I loved that, especially because it's like, Thor's like, wait a minute.

Iron Man's my friend, but Captain my friend. If they don't agree, who could possibly be right? And it was like, also, this was very campy. Episode, like, in the bad guys were like.

Like, when I read them, I was reading them as, like the bad guys in a he man show, you know, Like. Like, that was the voices that were happening. Yeah. Like, that is literally the voices that I read that in.

But, like, that conversation at the end was pretty. Still pretty impactful. And it gets to what I love about Captain America, which is what I want to see in this movie that's coming up.

So I'm tying it to the thing, guys. There you go. Captain America.

Even when it's Sam Wilson, one of the things that he embodies is this virtue that I hold on to a lot of, like, hey, just because the end might be good does not make the action good.

Ryan Does: 00:32:06

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:06

And he. He always stands by. We do the right thing in the moment that we are in.

And for me, this gets a little complicated with, like, weird metaphysics stuff because I'm like, I'm not sure time is real. So I think the moment that we live in is the only moment I know exists. So I'm going to do the right thing in that moment.

Ryan Does: 00:32:22

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:23

Because that's the only thing I know exists.

Ryan Does: 00:32:25

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:26

I think that gets to, like, for me, doing stuff because you think the outcome is good means that you are that certain, you know, what the outcome will be, what the future holds. And to me, like, that just takes, like, a crazy amount of arrogance, which fits Iron Man's character, but it's also why I'm like, Iron man bad.

Ryan Does: 00:32:42

True.

Joshua Noel: 00:32:43

And it's why Iron man and Cap always kind of like, butt heads there. Because Iron Man's like, here's what the outcome will be. And Cap's like, we don't know the outcome. Let's do the right thing right now.

Ryan Does: 00:32:51

Yeah. No, I think that's a really fair critique, especially a critique of this. At this time in Cap comics, you notice Cap was not Captain America.

He was the captain. And that was because his commission from the United States government had been taken away.

At this point, he was operating outside of a military function, but he still knew that the world would need him. So he functions outside of, you know, that classic function. And I think that really speaks to Steve Rogers as a character.

And even, like, this feud that Thor is having with Seth, the serpent God of death, is wide spanning, intergalactic. It's gods fighting against gods. And Steve Rogers is like, well, next man up, let's go.

And I love how this comic really highlights Steve and Thor's friendship and what their relationship, one on one, is. It speaks to both of their interpretations of what it means to be a hero.

So I really enjoy this issue, and I'm glad you chose it, because it is one of my favorite issues of Thor.

Joshua Noel: 00:34:07

Yeah, I am. I can see myself returning this a lot. And it's actually. It's a larger issue. Like, I was like, do I really want to pay for this?

And then I'm like, man, I really got my money's worth. Like, this is. Is like, a meaty comic. But, yeah, it's amazing to me how often Captain America isn't associated with the government of America.

And I've talked about this before. There's always been propaganda in comics. The first Captain America comic was literally a statement about how America needs to join World War II.

And on the front, had Captain America punching Hitler in the face. Right.

Ryan Does: 00:34:38

We weren't even in the war yet.

Joshua Noel: 00:34:40

Yeah, yeah. And then you see all these times where, like, we see government acting ways that is not worthy of the title of America and Cap rebels against it.

And I think, like, usually it coincides with times in our own history as American where the comic book writers were seeing something the politicians weren't. And that's what's really interesting for me, the timing of this new movie coming out. Brave New World.

Ryan Does: 00:35:06

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:35:07

And what's happening in our politics right now. I would say that our country right now is not worthy of. Of the title of America.

And that's where, like, I love, like, and I posted this the other day, like, on, you know, the inauguration day of Donald Trump. I posted the. That. That thing, that line where Steve says, even if the whole country says something wrong is right, we stand up against it.

That is what makes America great, is that you always have a voice. And I'm like, hey, yeah, that's the time.

Right now is the time to stand, you know, planted like that tree by the river of Truth line that Captain America fans know that I can't quote because I'm dumb. I think it's important time for that. Oh, yeah, that's fine. We're not live. But no. Is there anything else before we move on from this?

I know I got a little preachy there. I'm sorry. From, like, Thor390. What do people need to know about this? And how does, like, these two comics tie into what might happen in this movie?

Ryan Does: 00:36:07

Honestly, just go. Go read it. You know, I think. I think in their own separate ways, you know, spanning decades.

And we'll talk about more recent comics with these two that I have recommendations for later on. I think you really see Them play off of Thor in the ways that are true to their character.

Thunderbolt Ross is driven by rage and to do his own kind of corrections on things, but he's driven by vengeance. And sometimes that gets the job done. It can in a very twisted way, a twisted sense of justice. But Cap also is. He's just the next man up.

You know, I love this about Steve Rogers. Steve, in. In the first Avengers movie, one of the great lines that Robert Downey Jr.

Gets to deliver is that everything special about Captain America came out of a bottle.

And I think that line is meant as a dig, but I actually think it speaks to maybe what's the best about Captain America is that given the right virtues, given the right posture related to power and what to do with power, that is what makes someone truly worthy is we can all pontificate about what we would do with power when we don't have much. But when you're given an incredible responsibility, to borrow the Spider man idiom, I.

Joshua Noel: 00:37:36

Thought you had to say it.

Ryan Does: 00:37:37

When you're given great responsibility or great power, the great responsibility part is humongous. And I think Steve Rogers allows us a view of what it looks like when you are responsible with power.

And Red Hulk shows what happens when you are irresponsible with power. And I think, you know, we have a little line in our. In our outliner notes here. You know, how does this speak to the themes of today? I think it.

It couldn't speak to the themes more.

You know, what happens when people with great power, with great influence, with great potential, are irresponsible with the power, the influence, and the potential they're given. I think it speaks very, very loudly, if you're willing to hear.

And there was that thing in the Bible where someone said, like, if you have ears, let them hear. Whatever.

Joshua Noel: 00:38:34

Yeah, Jesus. No, no. I like what you did there. And I think that's really relevant.

And that's one of the things that's interesting is super soldier serum can either make a good man great or a bad man terrible. Right? That's what we saw in Captain First Avengers.

So you see where in that first film, Red Skull happens and from the same formula, Steve Rogers becomes Captain America.

And I think what's interesting, what I'm excited to see with Red Hulk, as we've seen what happens when Bruce Banner is Hulk and like that righteous anger monster, like point him in the right direction, we're gonna get the bad guy. But what happens when it's someone who isn't as just good?

I mean, I know that's like a light word, like a non highbrow word, but just good as Bruce Banner. What happens if that person gets the Hulk Hulk out? You know?

Ryan Does: 00:39:26

Right. Yeah, I think it's.

I think it's going to be interesting to see what the MCU's version of Thunderbolt Ross as Red Hulk will be because we know at this point Harrison Ford's portrayal of Thunderbolt Ross is going to be. He's president at this point. So how are they going to walk that line? You know, what is, what does Thunderbolt Ross want to do?

And then how does the Red Hulk either contradict or confirm those desires of what Thunderbolt wants to do with his power at this point? Because keep in mind Eagle Eyed Marvel fans, Thunderbolt was the one, I believe he was the Secretary of State at the point of Captain Civil War.

And he's the one that insists that they sign the Sokovia Accord, which is essentially the MCU's version of the Superhuman Registration act from the Civil War comic.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:22

Yeah.

Ryan Does: 00:40:23

So I'm interested to see how Thunderbolts politics within the MCU have either changed and matured or if he's become more entrenched in that very heavy handed, authoritarian kind of mode of thinking.

Joshua Noel: 00:40:39

Yeah. And we're going to get to some of the actors too when it comes to General Ross. But I love.

Okay, first off, we have to say I am sad about William Hurt. Right. It's sad that he passed. And I'm unsure if they should have recast him, but they did.

And I like that Harrison Ford was the choice because this film is now set up. We have a new Captain America. And one thing that the movie can do better than the comics is we can actually move forward.

Whereas comics is going to keep going back to the, you know, same characters because it has to. But the movie is able to move forward. So we have Sam Wilson is now Captain America.

We have a black Captain America who doesn't have the Super Soldier serum going up against Hulk. And it's not just Hulk, it's Harrison Ford. And to get a little bit meta, all of us are like, wait a minute, Harrison Ford? Isn't he America?

You know, you know, like we think of like Air Force One. We think of like a clear and present danger. Like this man represents. Yeah. Like he represents what we think of as like American movies.

And he's going to be the bad guy who's also the president during a new Captain America rising up. And he's probably is going to get to some of the sokovia Accords. And it's probably going to sound a lot like immigration laws.

I'm excited to see where that goes.

Ryan Does: 00:42:04

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:42:04

But real quick, did you want to go through some of the history of, like, other people who've played General Ross? Because I know you want to talk about Sam Elliott, so.

Ryan Does: 00:42:12

So, yeah, I never miss an opportunity to talk about Sam Elliott. Yeah. Sam Elliott, William Hurt, and Harrison Ford are all the. The men that have brought Thunderbolt to life in, you know, on film.

And I was a big fan of the non MCU Hulk movie. I know you know, it. It got pretty panned, but I love that movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:42:36

Was. That video game was great.

Ryan Does: 00:42:37

Also, I. I loved Sam Elliott as Thunderbolt Ross. I feel like, you know, his voice, he carried himself well. He looks the part.

And then William Hurt just kind of. I think he kind of his. His Thunderbolt Ross got better as the MCU went along because he was able to kind of tweak and shift the character.

I'm not looking for Harrison Ford to feel like those men because they were very military in their approach to the character. And I don't think Harrison's really going to have that opportunity because he has to play Thunderbolt as the President.

I'm interested mostly to see how the motion capture comes across, how the Red Hulk part comes across, because I have a feeling we're not going to see how much of. How much of Harrison Ford as General Ross are we going to see, like, and as opposed to how much Red Hulk are we going to see?

Does that make sense, Joshua?

Joshua Noel: 00:43:33

Yeah. Yeah. I'm torn on that because part of me feels like watching commercials that it's like, this is a Harrison Ford film featuring Captain America.

You know, like, when I watched the first trailer, I was like, okay, so they know why. They know why people are going to come. Like, I was going to watch it just because it was Captain America.

Ryan Does: 00:44:24

Right.

Joshua Noel: 00:44:25

I also would have gone to watch it just because it's Harrison Ford. Like, they got me on two accounts. Yeah. I don't know. I'm really interested. I love that.

I can't think of many other times that Harrison Ford's been a bad guy. So this is exciting for me. I'm excited to see how he does it. And you've seen the General Ross character kind of evolve. Like you mentioned.

Like, he started off, he's just the military guy. He gets more into politics. He's like the Secretary of State during Civil War. He pops up during. Is it Infinity War or Endgame?

I think it's Endgame he pops up. And that's the one that really showed to me why he's going to be a villain.

Because the rest of the time it's like, oh, he's just a military guy who is afraid that, hey, maybe Hulk is dangerous for the population. That's actually a valid concern.

Ryan Does: 00:45:09

And then you get to Endgame.

Joshua Noel: 00:45:10

Yeah, but then you get to Endgame. And he's like, wait a minute, Cap, we gotta lock you up. It's like, hold up.

Aliens just came in, like, effed up the whole world, and you want to stop and arrest the superheroes? Like, come on. And that's where I'm like, oh, this is why he's a bad guy. He is so set.

And things have to be according to the law, according to the rules, you know, legalistic, if you will, to trigger my Christian friends. But, you know, I'm like, that's who he is.

And then that guy becoming president right now during, like, what's happening in America, that's what we're going to release in this film. And Harrison Ford is going to be the face. I'm like, oh, well, then let's see where this goes.

Ryan Does: 00:45:53

You know, I don't. I don't think it'll have any real. Real world ramifications, but I do think it will be a good example of art imitating life.

And, yeah, I'm excited to see how the portrayal comes across. You know, there's always a section of Marvel fans and really just people who want to fight culture wars. Yeah, there's always a portion of them.

They're gonna. They're gonna get butthurt no matter what happens. But I'm going to. I'm going to see an action movie. Like, let's. Let's be clear.

Brave New World is going to be an action movie. But also, I'm curious to see how much commentary that will be, how much current events commentary, how much cultural commentary there will be.

If there's none, awesome. I like action movies, but if there is some, I want to see kind of what.

What a big corporation like Disney is willing to say about, like, a character that they. They could go some interesting creative ways with it.

Joshua Noel: 00:46:55

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and that's where, like, for me, the thing that makes me hopeful that they go somewhere that's actually interesting is because of my personal favorite. And I know this is like a. Like a bad thing to say.

Apparently my favorite of the MCU shows, the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, shouldn't surprise anyone. It's Captain America. Why is very low bar no one. This is like no one's favorite. Everyone's like, no, it's supposed to be Wandavision.

Or that show's not that great. Or what about Loki? And I'm like. I mean, I like those other shows. I like.

For me, I think what it is, is I love political commentary and I love thrillers, and this is both of those things. So I'm like, I love this.

Ryan Does: 00:47:35

Screw what other people like. I love show. It was awesome.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:39

I. I thought so too. In that speech that Sam Wilson does near, like that last episode, and he just calls out all of America.

And I'm like, oh, this guy's going to be Captain America.

Ryan Does: 00:47:51

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:52

And right now, I think I need that Captain America.

Ryan Does: 00:47:55

Yeah. No, I'm sorry.

Joshua Noel: 00:47:57

I need him more than Steve Rogers.

Ryan Does: 00:47:59

Don't apologize, man. Sam Wilson.

Joshua Noel: 00:48:01

I was apologizing to Steve here.

Ryan Does: 00:48:04

Sam Wilson is a strong character. Like, this was also at the time, like, when Sam Wilson was first cast as Captain America in. In comics.

That was around the time that my girl Jane Foster picked up the mantle of Thor. People got, oh, my gosh, all sorts of out of shape.

It was just like, hey, guys, like, I know it's hard sitting in your basement when mom won't bring you down the food you like for video game time, but you might have to put on your big boy pants and fucking get over it and let these creators tell their story. Sam Wilson is a great character with a long heritage going all the way back to the 70s.

So before stupid comes out of your mouth, maybe look at the character in his context. What does the character always stood for? Sam Wilson is a great, great choice for Captain America.

And I think Anthony Mackie is a strong actor who believes in his part. He believes in his role. And I think he is going to absolutely crush this movie because he, Joshua, he crushed the series. The series was awesome.

And like, it did have that, like, Jack Ryan, like, political thriller kind of undertones. I love those type of shows and movies because they make me think. And, and. And they also have that action component, which is a lot of fun.

But that series is. Is really good.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:36

Yeah, I. I love what they did with the Flagstomper character who's now characters and Carly. Great.

Ryan Does: 00:49:42

Here's where all comic book go.

Joshua Noel: 00:49:44

Oh, oh. Up, up. Okay, here we go.

Ryan Does: 00:49:46

Flag smasher. Man, come on. Do you even like. Do you even like Marvel, man?

Joshua Noel: 00:49:52

Do I even like Cap? I suck. But also, Baron Zemo was fantastic in the series. Oh, but that's not really relevant to the new movie.

Ryan Does: 00:49:59

Daniel Necessary thing To say was a vibe in that show. So good, man.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:06

ain America, symbol of truth,: 2022

Ryan Does: 00:50:20

Joaquin Torres.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:21

His name?

Ryan Does: 00:50:22

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:23

Okay. I couldn't remember his name. Yeah, I love that character.

And kind of seeing how much race commentary, like racial commentary they were able to bring out of that and even some of the earlier Sam Wilson stuff with him and Steve Rogers disagreeing on the border. And I'm like, oh, yeah. They could go. If they're gonna stay comic accurate, they could get really political with this. And I would love it. Personally.

I don't think they go too far.

Ryan Does: 00:50:46

That way for the bottom dollar. And I hope that that is. I hope that what's best for the bottom dollar is not being cowards.

Joshua Noel: 00:50:54

Yeah. Well, also, yeah, it feels disingenuous to be cowardly about a Captain America movie. Like, the whole point is standing up for truth.

Like, that's literally the point.

Ryan Does: 00:51:04

Yeah.

Joshua Noel: 00:51:04

Oh, man. And yeah. Yeah. So I think watching that series really is probably going to help you get ready for what's going to happen here.

There's a lot of things that I would like to see loose ends tied up in this film. I don't know what they will and won't do, but I'm excited for the film. I love Sam Wilson and even I like she Hulk a lot.

And some of what they've done with the Hulks in general.

I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but it is relevant since we're going to have red Hulk to kind of contemplate, like, what are they going to do with this Hulk? Because, you see, she Hulk and Hulk are both now able to, like, be like the normal people who are also Hulk size.

Abomination did not have that ability. And there's a lot of different ways now thanks to those shows.

And like, that Incredible Hulk film, that was a different actor, but same continuity somehow. You know, like, there are a lot of different ways that Red Hulk could have happened, but so far, all the Hulks have been green.

So I'm still not sure why we have red Hulk.

Ryan Does: 00:52:00

Yeah, no, I think.

Joshua Noel: 00:52:02

Is that comic information?

Ryan Does: 00:52:03

Is that.

Joshua Noel: 00:52:04

What is that, like, comic book ready information? Like, did I just read enough comics and I would know why he's read.

Ryan Does: 00:52:10

You know what? That's a great, great question that I don't have a solid answer on because I'm not a Hulk expert. Jo.

I know how I know how Jennifer Walters becomes she Hulk. But I. I should have done that one extra little bit of research. I. I should have, too. I can speak to this, though. I was one of those fans.

I was one of those cisgendered straight men. Sorry, there's only two genders now. I forgot. I am. I'm a straight white guy who loves rom coms. I could not get enough of Tatiana Maslany as Jennifer.

I loved the she Hulk series. I thought it was so entertaining, so fun, and, you know, all the little nitpicky things.

I'm like, yeah, I'm going to get over that pretty fast because I'm an adult and I got stuff to do. But I really enjoyed how meta that movie went.

And I'm wondering if any part of Brave New World will play with that kind of meta narrative of the Hulks that being fueled by rage. And how do you handle rage? I would also love. I would love to see. We have a little thing in our notes here about cameos. We'd like to see Joshua.

I would love to see Tim Roth reprise his role as Abomination. I thought he was fantastic. And Tim Roth is. Oh, Tim Roth is good for the. For the movie business. I really enjoyed when he shows up and stuff.

Joshua Noel: 00:53:41

Yeah, I. I really like that she Hulk. Like, I don't know if I would say love. I enjoyed all of it. I thought it was really funny.

The overarching plot, I thought was okay, but, like, it's a sitcom. I don't. I didn't expect it to have, like, the. The greatest overarching plot of all time.

I expected to make me laugh, and it did, you know, like, Like, I came for laughs. I got laughs.

Ryan Does: 00:54:02

Oh, no.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:03

That's what it's there for.

Ryan Does: 00:54:05

Right? Right.

Joshua Noel: 00:54:06

Yeah. And I don't know. I. I like how we're seeing more Hulk involvement in there. Like these big, like, you know, Jekyll and Hyde kind of monsters.

I'm thinking since he's not related to Bruce Banner, we're probably gonna see more of a Jekyll and Hyde thing with General Ross in the Red Hulk, where two different personalities, monster and man, but probably both are. Neither are good, we should say. So I. I'm interested how they play with all that. It'll be fun.

But, yeah, like you mentioned, we had a few other things in the notes as far as, like, cameos you'd like to see or, like, themes that maybe you'd like to see pop up. Do you want to just anything else? Just shout out real quick before we Cameos.

Ryan Does: 00:54:43

I would love to see Abomination. I would always love to see George St. Pierre reprise his role as Batroc the Leaper.

But as far as cameos of characters that we haven't seen, there's a few, there's a few Captain America villains that I would love to see them bring in. Baron Blood is a super powered vampire that I would love to see them have a, have a good go with.

But then also there's a character that I feel is, I don't know, pretty perfect for an inclusion. Just as like a one off little villain is Nuke.

Nuke is a like nuclear powered like anarchist from the Vietnam War and I would absolutely love for them to have like a one off little fight with Nuke. So cameos. Yeah, those are ones I would love to see. And who knows, maybe, you know, let's get a, a Steve, a Steve Rogers cameo. I'm, I'm hopeful.

I'm hopeful. I love Serpent Society are in this movie.

I think Serpent Society are a really fun group of villains, but watching them in their MCU version will be, will be interesting.

Joshua Noel: 00:55:53

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I personally I would love to see a she Hulk cameo. Yeah.

Also what I want to see, I want to see in credit scenes that are meant for the geeks again because what happened was like mainstream. It got too mainstream and they started making the end credits. Seen something that like everybody understood.

Like, yo, I remember back when we were like, oh my God, is that Thanos? And everyone's like, what are you talking about? And I want that, you know, like I want it to be like this is Black Knight and me and Ryan.

Those are like you and everybody else in Taylor. Huh? Yeah, that's what I want. Or, or you know, like, like, like a Venom, I guess more people know Venom now. But like, like who?

I'm trying to think, who else was it that I wanted to see? Harry Styles character would be fun too.

Ryan Does: 00:56:40

And yeah, you got to be really careful with how you portray Star Fox because his, his main power is he gets people to fall in love with him. He's very coercive.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:49

I'd like to see David Tennant show up as Kilgray for absolutely no reason.

Ryan Does: 00:56:53

No reason.

Joshua Noel: 00:56:54

That would be great. He's just there. He's just walking past the White House to make sure we all remember he exists. Why not?

Yeah, but as far as like themes, I want it to hit the immigration. I want to hear Harrison Ford say make America great again or something along those lines.

I want them to draw some Comparison where we know these are the bad guys and Sam Wilson is here to fight him.

Ryan Does: 00:57:18

I don't think Harrison Ford to say that.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:21

Probably not. But I'm surprised he agreed to be bad guy in a political movie at that. So it's.

Ryan Does: 00:57:28

You said that a couple times, and I just want to push back on it a little bit. I don't think Red Hulk is the big bad of this movie.

Joshua Noel: 00:57:36

Yeah.

Ryan Does: 00:57:36

I mean, Giancarlo Esposito's character, Sidewinder, is the main big bad because he's the leader of the Serpent Society. Also, Timothy Blake Nelson's character, Samuel Sterns, the leader, is going to be in this movie.

So, like, I think Red Hulk is going to be like the main antagonistic force, but I don't think he's the mastermind. I don't. I don't. Yeah, Red Hulk happens to him. I don't think Sam is going to end up like his big climactic fight is to stop Red Hulk.

I think it's to stop the people behind Red Hulk, if you know what I mean.

Joshua Noel: 00:58:11

Well, if I was going to do some guessing work, I think you're probably right. I think it's going to be a lot like Captain America, Winter Soldier. And we showed up for Winter Soldier to be the bad guy.

But back then, the MCU was so basic that I didn't expect what happened at all. And I was like, excuse me, sir. And that's why that's like literally when I. You asked me what my favorite movie is.

Depending on the day, I'll say Winter Soldier, Indiana Jones, Temple of Doom, or Star Wars A New Hope. It's going to be one of those three. But it does depend on the day you ask me, right? Yeah. But this will be my final note before we wrap this one up.

I could see Sam Wilson using the power of speech to break through to Harrison Ford in actually the climactic moment being less of a big fight and more of a, hey, Red Hulk's now antihero. Get ready for the thunderbolts. I can see that number. Yeah, that's where I could see it going.

You know, very similar because, you know, the MCU likes to retread things. So I could see it doing like a. Like a Winter Soldier moment kind of thing.

Ryan Does: 00:59:15

That would definitely be probably the safest way to go about it.

Joshua Noel: 00:59:18

Yeah. But we shall see. With that, though, we are going to go ahead and wrap this one up. Thank you, Ryan, so much for joining me.

Thank you, listeners or anybody who pops in live or checks this out later. You guys rock too. Before we go though, I want to see if you could recommend any one Hulk, Captain America or, you know, Red Hulk comic or comic run.

What would you recommend for us all, including myself? I might go read right now.

Ryan Does: 00:59:44

So here's what I would do. If you want something that's going to be related to the movie. Marvel just launched two different series.

They launched a Greg Pac written Captain America series with Sam Wilson as Cap and he's got Red Hulk. He's fighting Red Hulk in that series as well.

So I would go check that out and I would go check out the Benjamin Piercy written Red Hulk series that's taking place within Marvel's big event this year called One World Under Doom. So those are the two series I would, I would recommend go check out what's happening in Marvel Comics right now.

Go check out how these stories are being brought into the zeitgeist of what Marvel's doing on a larger scale.

I think those will be really good because all those, all those creators are so top notch and I think they're really gonna do a good job of bringing these characters to life in a new and fresh, inventive way.

Joshua Noel: 01:00:43

Yeah, yeah. With the move and everything that's happened since October, I've been dropping the ball on Marvel.

So I might pick some stuff up after I read that Justice League that apparently came out today. Yeah, yeah. So thanks for that.

Also, if you guys are wondering, Disney does have that like character recap stuff so you can watch Sam Wilson and yeah, some stuff on there that will help you prepare for the movie too. So we hope this was helpful. Go do those things. I'm sure though, all of that will be helpful too. Man, you guys rock.

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