Mandalorian Mayhem: The Good, The Bad, and The Grogu

Andy Walsh: 00:01:15

The kid will live centuries beyond me.

So says the Mandalorian about Grogu in their eponymous film we're discussing here on systematic ecology as well as the future Star wars films for centuries to come. Hi, I'm Andy Walsh and I am joined here by a veritable squadron of hosts. So we're going to go through them. Signing off. Will Rose. Welcome.

And how are you doing? And what are you geeking out on?

Will Rose: 00:01:35

Red 53 coming through. I'm doing great. Hey, guys, it's good to be back here with you guys. I'm on sabbatical.

I'm currently sabbaticaling, so that means doing some continuing ed, some rest and relaxation, decompressing, catching my breath, all that kind of stuff. And so I'm geeking out on that as well as doing some reading for pleasure here at the beginning of the sabbatical.

So books that I haven't had a chance to read yet, I'm grabbing. And the first one I'm reading is Theo of Golden by Alan Levy. And it is such a wholesome, feel good, warm blanket of a book.

I was suggested to me by three different people who didn't know each other and on like three consecutive days, these people recommend it. So, yeah, it's a very, very cool book. I'm about halfway through and can't wait to see how it ends.

And then in honor of TJ and his birthday, I'm actually geeking out on Hurricanes hockey right now because they're about to go into the, this, the one win away from the Stanley cup. And I've never watched hockey until this series in this run. So there you go. That's what sabbatical means to me.

Maybe I'm picking up a new love of a new sport. I don't know. But yeah, yeah, that's what I'm geeking out on.

Andy Walsh: 00:02:56

Awesome. Thanks, Will. And going around the circle here. Evan. Evan Trapper Wolf grown. Garcia, what are you geeking out on?

Evan Garcia: 00:03:03

Well, I'm, I'm, I'm fully geeking out on the summer movie season that it's already kicked off with Amando and with Amando and Grogu.

I've seen, I've seen Obsession and I literally just came home from watching the backrooms film and, and both are great films in their own, in, in their own way. And, and, and it was a fun time in the theater with my kids with them and stuff like that. So the kids, they knew the lore about back rooms and stuff.

hat. A random photo from like: 2005

And so like they were pointing out a bunch of Easter eggs and stuff like that and I was just, I felt so old. But yeah, so, yeah, I'm having fun doing that. So I can't wait to talk about it now.

Andy Walsh: 00:04:02

Very good. Well, let's get there quickly. But first we also welcome Kevin Schaefer. Martin Scorsese in space. What have you been geeking out on?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:04:08

Gold Leader? Standing by. And I just watched two episodes of Nicolas Cage in a live action spider noir series, which. I love that that's a sentence. That's true.

I mean, the fact that this show exists is pretty awesome, but it is delightful. I mean, I, I am a big fan of classic noir films like Maltese Falcon and I love Nicolas Cage as the voice of spider noir in the Spider Verse films.

And if you love that, I think this is delightful. It's wonderfully shot. It's, it, it doesn't take itself too seriously. Very pulpy. And definitely watch it in black and white.

It gives you the option to watch it in color or black and white. The black and white is the way to go.

I mean, if you do watch in color, it's kind of cool because it's the more like style saturated aesthetic like you would see in wizard of Oz. But still, this is so much better in the black and white noir. So I'll have a lot more to say about it once I watch the whole series.

But the first two episodes were spot on, Kevin.

Will Rose: 00:05:08

So that's dropped. It's on Amazon prime, am I right?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:10

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:05:10

And do they just drop two episodes at a time or do they drop the whole series?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:14

They dropped the whole series.

Which I was surprised and like, I, I, I kind of appreciated more the return to dropping episodes weekly because it gives me something to look forward to and I like breaking down the episodes. But they did drop the whole season here, so I'll probably be watching a good chunk of it this weekend. If not.

Will Rose: 00:05:33

How many? How many episodes?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:34

Eight or ten maybe.

Christian Ashley: 00:05:36

I think it's eight.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:36

Like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will Rose: 00:05:39

You know what I'm watching tonight? I know I'm watching tonight after we're done with this.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:05:44

And Lamorne Morris is Robbie Robinson in it. Oh, it's so good.

Will Rose: 00:05:49

Nice. Awesome.

Andy Walsh: 00:05:50

All right. And last but definitely not least, Christian definitely doesn't work for the New Republic. Ashley, what are you geeking out on?

Christian Ashley: 00:05:56

Yeah, I too am geeking out on spider noir. I'm very early on, but I am really enjoying it so far, I think, as opposed to many other things Sony has done with Spider Man.

This is rather well done so far. Maybe they dropped the ball later on, but for right now they've got me.

Andy Walsh: 00:06:13

Excellent.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:06:13

I agree there.

Andy Walsh: 00:06:15

I'm looking forward to checking that one out as well. But for right now I'm geeking out on the statistical outlier that is the Knicks performance in the NBA playoffs over the last 10 or 11 games.

They have just done things that no team has ever done before in 60 odd years post merger or however you want to reckon it. So that has been very exciting.

As a long time Knicks fan, long suffering Knicks fan, I remember watching the Eastern Conference Finals or whatever round it was when the OJ Simpson White Bronco chase cut in and we had to do the picture in picture because we couldn't possibly not keep up with that as well. And all the other dick shenanigans over the years. That's been exciting. I'm also going to make an impassioned plea.

I will be pre geeking out on the Apple TV show Sugar.

Someone else please watch this show so that we can discuss it because it is so bonkers in ways that are not at all revealed in any of the marketing that I need someone else to confirm that I did not hallucinate the first season of the show.

Will Rose: 00:07:16

I love it.

Andy Walsh: 00:07:17

All right, well speaking of bandwagons that you can get on.

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And again please rate like subscribe all the things that help us get boosted and will if we get 50 likes on this video which features your lovely countenance, what can people look forward to?

Will Rose: 00:08:25

Yeah, if there's 50 likes on this I will. I will dress up as Rhoda the Hutt in a Rhoda the Hutt outfit and, and slither my way down the south end of Wrightsville Beach.

Andy Walsh: 00:08:43

Awesome.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:08:44

Who doesn't want to see that?

Christian Ashley: 00:08:45

Come on.

Will Rose: 00:08:46

Who doesn't want to see that?

Andy Walsh: 00:08:47

That is just 50 likes away from, from your future, folks.

Will Rose: 00:08:51

That's right. That's right. Likes. I'm not going to do it, but if it's, if it's 50, I will do that.

I'll find Row the Hut like one of those, you know how you like those blow up dinosaur costumes or sumo. That's. It's going to be Row the Hut, one of those.

And I'm going to be slithering down the south end of Riceville beach while you are having fun on the beach on a crowded day too. Like a Saturday crowded day. I'll do it.

Andy Walsh: 00:09:15

Well, I hope that you are blasting your core on your sabbatical because I think you're going to need it for that activity.

Will Rose: 00:09:22

Well, I'm hoping that the suit has it painted on there. It's like that's what I.

Andy Walsh: 00:09:26

Well, sure that the look, but I mean, to actually pull off the wriggling, I think you're still going to need to actually have the core muscles. Or maybe you already do. I shouldn't sell you short. You, you are a surfer right now.

Will Rose: 00:09:35

I'll show you. No, just kidding. That's not fair enough.

Andy Walsh: 00:09:38

Anyway, you, you have reminded us of Road of the Hutt, the real star of the Mandalorian and Grogu. So why don't we, without further ado, get into our discussion of that. We are going to be talking about the film. We are going to be spoiling the film.

So beware to the extent that the movie can be spoiled, not, not a super heavy plot movie, but, you know, we will be talking about everything that happens, so be warned.

And then as, as time allows and as our imagination soars, we will also be discussing where we think Star wars might be going from here, where it should go from here, all those kinds of good things. So again, Will, since you are possibly on. On a shorter time frame, why don't you start us off with your reactions, your thoughts.

The Mandalorian and Grogu, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Will Rose: 00:10:24

Yeah, I, you know, I've kind of taken sabbatical from a lot of different things, even, even podcasting over the summer because of traveling and coming and going, that kind of stuff. But I had to hop on and talk about Mandalorian Grogu because I'm, you know, A Star wars fan from the beginning.

e from way back when in movie: 1977

And so I'm known as one of the, one of the top Star wars guys on, on this podcast and as you come on here and talk about the movie and I was really excited. The first Star wars movie we've had in the theater in seven years. And I'm a fan of Mando and Grogu, the Mandalorian TV show. Loved the seasons.

I thought I there were some complicated feelings when with the Book of Boba Fett and what they did with Grogu in the Mandalorian shoehorned. I mean, I guess Boba Fett showed up in the Mandalorian, so why wouldn't he show up in Book of Boba Fett? I don't have any problems with that.

But you know, having kind of a mini season 2.5 in the book of Boba Fett was a little like, oh, that's a choice. But you know, you're going to go where the money, where the money is and the marketing is.

And so for them to make the decision to put this as the next movie, I understand what they're doing in terms of recognizable, marketable face without being legacy characters, why they would make the decision for this to be a movie. And listening to Christian and Kevin's review in an earlier episode, what's New episode, I agree.

I felt like this was season four of the Mandalorian and I went in thinking that's what they were going to do.

But I couldn't help bringing in some complicated feelings and expectations to this film because I wanted to see some connective tissues to the larger Star wars universe and wanted to see some homages to legacy characters and that kind of thing. Even though I went in thinking I have no expectations, I just want to have a good time, I couldn't help but bring that with me to the film.

So the first go around first watching this film, I had a lot of fun.

But I did leave a little disappointed that it wasn't connected to the larger Star wars universe and legacy characters and the New Republic and what's going on behind the scenes and what's Grogu's backstory and why can't we know more about his planet? And I don't know. There was a lot there for me I brought into it.

But about halfway through the film, there was a family of like seven sitting beside us in the row and the Kids were pretty young from like 4 years old all the way up to like maybe 10. And I was also thinking, man, there's a lot of scary creatures in here. I hope those kids are okay. I was like, there's some scary moments.

I hope they're okay. I can't help but think about that.

But then, you know, all the funny parts and the Grogu parts, they were giggling at all the right places where they should be and they were having so much fun. And there was a point halfway through the movie I was like, will, just let go of what you think should happen in this movie and have fun.

And I was, I was able to, was able to have fun. And I saw it a second time in IMAX this week, knowing the full plot and knowing what was going to happen and I had an absolute blast.

So where like the Last Jedi, I went and saw it a couple of times to like confirm my feelings and I got more frustrated with it as I watched it each time. This one I became, I loved it more as I was watching the second time go around.

And I think part of it was, I think it's a great jumping on point for families and kids and the fact that they didn't lean into big lore and legacy characters with distractions and stuff. I, I, they kept it simple for a reason, so that this could be a stand in film for what they do later on down the road.

So this can be their James Bond slash Indiana Jones flick where you had these standalone adventures moving forward and then you can have these kind of legacy big crawl movies later on down, down the road. So that's kind of my feelings. I, I was hoping a little bit more connective tissues with the larger universe.

And then I, eventually when I let that go, I had a fun and I thought it was a well done movie. And, and basically Mando is, is like his Batman is Batman. When I saw the Hoth scene at the beginning, I was like, I'm watching a Batman film.

Like he's just kicking butt through that, through that hallway scene. And it was a lot of fun. So I have more thoughts later, but that's kind of where I, where I am. I had a lot of fun with this movie and I'm warming up.

And then when I hear stories like Evan talking about bringing his, his kiddo to the film, the first time he bring his son has seen a Star wars movie in the theater and they had an absolute blast.

And then the family next to me, I was like, yeah, this should be something that people can jump on with and then we'll go from there to see where they take Star wars and we'll have more thoughts about what I hope they do later on with more movies. That's kind of where I am.

Andy Walsh: 00:15:23

Awesome, thank you. I'll just chime in about the kids and adults and things.

You know, to me it was, it started as a John Wick movie and then it turns into a Muppet movie. And that was a real tonal clash.

And you know, and I think that that's a little bit hard maybe for or I was surprised that, you know, you have a movie that appeals to some very young children with Grogu and the Muppity sequences opening with a very John Wick inspired action sequence, you know, and just as, just as lethal, but not quite as visually so. But certainly in, in effect even like Stab kills. Not just laser kills, flamethrower kills, Stab kills.

Will Rose: 00:16:01

Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:16:01

I mean he is, he's every bit as effective and as lethal as John Wick. Just not quite so explicitly. But yeah, so that was interesting.

But you know, I don't like either of those flavors, but they were not the combination I was expecting.

Will Rose: 00:16:14

One more thought before I lose it. I thought it was an awesome adventure movie and it was more like Star Creatures, Star Monsters, Star Aliens rather than Star Wars.

So I'm used to like the Star wars and the battle between like the Empire and the Republic. And I know that was like part of the plot line and it was very well directed and shot film. So I was more like Star Creatures more than Star Wars.

I wanted a little bit more like the development of the New Republic and those kinds of things. But I certainly understand that for people jumping on and for kids and families not to just bog it down with so much lore.

Now I'm understanding the choices that they made and I think they made the right choice without bogging it down with so much complicated lore or distractions of legacy characters. Like would I have loved to have like layer a deaged Han Solo, Harrison Ford be the person instead of Sigourney Weaver?

I mean, I think she did fine and I love her as in the lore. But like to have somebody different like that was there would have been cool.

But so it was Star Creatures, Star Adventure, Star Monsters, not necessarily Star epic battles in space. So yeah, go, go for it.

Evan Garcia: 00:17:27

No, yeah to I, I, I heard it said and I thought it was a very apt description that this was a good, probably the best, no homework franchise film that there's ever been made. Like you can just kind of jump into this and Just kind of like it even if you haven't seen it all.

And, and I thought that was impressive because there's what, there's three seasons and point five of the, of the show. But no.

So, yeah, for me, like, like Will said, this was my first film where I brought my kid that was old enough because our first, she was like two when she was like a toddler when the sequel, when these sequels were coming out. So she, she wasn't going to sit for those movies.

But this time, my son's 8 and we played hooky from school and we went to, and we went to Disney and we, we, we, we stayed in Star wars land all day. We rode the new Smugglers Run.

There's, there's, there's a new version of the Millennium Falcon ride and they've significantly improved that ride so much before was very boring. It was the same riot every time.

Now there's, now you have different options and it's, there's the music and there's Hondo and there's a baby Yoda there, there. And there's an actual plot line and stuff. So we, so we wrote that about 12 times, just a single writer and stuff like that. So had a blast.

And then we went to go watch the movie and, and, and, and, and, and seeing him just have fun and it was so good. But my preconceived notions of my assumptions on this movie were, I hope it's not just a really long TV episode.

And about halfway through the film I was like, dang, I really like this. Like, why was I worried, why, why was I worried about it if it was a long TV episode? And because I like tv. So, so, so this was a good thing.

So I really love the film. Sure there were some things, like every word that Sigourney Weaver said was so clunky, it came out so, so beyond kind of pulpy.

I was just like, ah, this exposition is heavy. Like, what is happening? And there were just a few silly moments. I was like, ah, that's.

But overall the, the, I think it kind of made up for, for the, for the lack of season four. And, and, and I really liked it in this end. So a lot of people's reaction is that it's not a like episodic Star wars film.

And, and they wanted something that was bigger and more like in line with the saga. But I like this one because it's just showing that now Star wars is not a, it's not monolith anymore.

There's not just one way to tell Star wars stories. Now we have the comics, the books, whereas we did have it before, but now there's just not one way to tell Star Wars, I don't think anymore.

And, and, and sure, there's like a Jimmy Mack from Rebel Force Radio. He is calling it whiplash that the fandom now has whiplash because of all these stories. Are, are, are not connected.

And, and they are going from timeline to timeline. And sure, I'm not saying that some people are not doing that, but. But I think it's.

That shows the growth of the franchise and to the point of like, where this is going to go. I think that it's going to have legs, you know, that we are never we. I think that Star wars is going to outlive us. And that kind of freaks me out.

But. But it kind of doesn't. So it's like, it's like having a pet turtle. It's like this little booger is going to live to be like 100 years old.

That's crazy.

Will Rose: 00:22:16

So, so, Evan, that's such a good analogy. The pet turt, like pet turtle.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:22:21

Net.

Christian Ashley: 00:22:21

Holla.

Will Rose: 00:22:22

Yeah. No. And we're both big fans of Ver Force Radio.

And I think them talking about this being a Star wars, having an identity crisis and trying to figure out one is something I've kind of resonated with. And we'll talk more about what's the future of Star Wars.

But I think this being one of the bigger successes of the Disney era of Star wars, this being a placeholder film and then it serving as between these episodic, you know, the big crawl movies, having the adventure of the year, adventure of the week, adventure of the TV show with Mando and Grogu and seeing them progress as the years go on like a James Bond movie or Indiana Jones movie or whatever.

Andy Walsh: 00:23:10

I'm.

Will Rose: 00:23:10

I'm kind of on board that I'm now, after seeing this move a couple of times, I've really warmed up to be like, cool, let's. Let's do that. They might do something another season five on Disney plus. But I.

Why not let that be like the in between standalone movies that, that bring me back to these characters that I really love. I will talk more about, you know, things I really loved and things that I thought were missed opportunities or things that didn't hit right later on.

But I'm with you. Like that, that kind of placeholder or identity crisis.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:23:41

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:23:42

And trying to find what they're going on and them to make the choice to say this is.

We're Going to put our energy to put it in the film for now to really set, to not overbog it, to get people to theaters to have fun again and let kids enjoy it and buy a Grogu T shirt and a Mandalorian mask. I mean, the violence mixed with the Muppets with Andy is so there. I resonate with that too. I was like, what am I watching?

This is something that parents like. I have some friends that have elementary, you know, five and six, seven year olds, like, should I go see this?

I was like, there's some parts that are really scary, man. They're like voldemort scary. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, if they've watched Harry Potter, I guess they can watch this.

But like, yeah, there's some stuff in there that they're kind of mixed with. They got to play around and figure out, you gotta. You got aging adults like me and then you have kiddos you want to bring into the franchise.

And this isn't a bad place to do that. I don't think you're going to do that with. With too much else that's out there within the franchise.

Andy Walsh: 00:24:37

But.

Will Rose: 00:24:37

But yeah, I resonate with what you said there, Evan.

Andy Walsh: 00:24:40

All right, thanks. And Christian, you want to jump in now?

Christian Ashley: 00:24:43

Yeah, sure. So, like, I showed in the other episode, I. I seen a film once, I was going to see it again.

I have seen it again, and after seeing the film twice, I think my original rating of a 7 out of 10 is exactly where I land right now. It's inoffensive. It's. It's safe.

It's not the greatest, grandest story ever, but it's got characters I do care about on screen, getting old ones back on screen, and we haven't seen in quite some time with Rada and the like. As divisive as the Clone wars movie was forever ago. Like, now I've grown to like it a little bit more since initially it came out.

Yeah, Little Stinky has become a man, a slug, and got a lot more.

Will Rose: 00:25:24

Buffer who talks like a California surfer. That's fun.

Andy Walsh: 00:25:27

Yep.

Christian Ashley: 00:25:27

Yeah, exactly.

Evan Garcia: 00:25:29

It took me a second.

Christian Ashley: 00:25:31

So. So overall, like, I do enjoy the film. Like, I don't regret seeing it twice. The third time, maybe you're pushing it a little bit.

I might need a little more space in between viewings, but I think I'm still left where I was in our initial review. It's like, okay, this is great. I enjoyed it. Where's the rest? There should be five episodes after this.

We watched three, 40 minute episodes in a movie that there should be five more. Right. If we're doing eight episodes and that's a pathetic amount. But modern television, like I'll settle for eight, I guess. So it.

You should always be wanting more after watching something. But this one left me wanting more in a bad way.

And like we don't know when season four is coming out or if there is a season four at all at this point in time. And I'll give like a counter to this.

It's like recently I should have mentioned in geeking out, The X Men 97 trailer for season two came out and I really enjoyed that one. And I remember reading somewhere that now they're going to do yearly releases, which it's still only 10ish episodes, but at least it's yearly.

And that keeps me hyped up for these things. It keeps me not having to forget, you know, what happened because there's been so, so long a distance. Yeah.

I can always rewatch these whenever I want. But like I shouldn't have to do it every two, three years, sometimes even longer than that for certain things. And that's. It's really disappointing.

But film wise itself, love it for what it is, even though I still want more. The, the fight scenes were really engaging and they were done in different ways. It wasn't just straight up blaster and shoot as we mentioned.

Like, you know, the flamethrower was brought in. You have way to zeb fights in the film. You have Grogu's contributions in that regard. In many ways I love the different aliens we got to see here.

I always love seeing that, you know, Star wars is not just humans. Yeah. For a TV show budget, sometimes you just have to keep humans on because they're cheaper.

But you know, in a movie, make it a little extra money on the side, you can show a little more. So I'm grateful they did that. The long silent scene that we talked about previously as well.

I grew to appreciate that a lot more on second viewing of Grogu. You know, taking care of then then like showing how he's grown. Should he be talking by now? Yes, but that's its own separate thing.

I, you know, it is what it is. But the love they have for each other is great. And I'm also left where I was last time when I'm saying no one really had an arc in the film.

And once again I think that's the same thing. If we were watching this as a TV show, I wouldn't be expecting that in the same way that I would for a movie.

So I'm still questioning why it had to be a movie. I'm glad it seems to be doing well for itself. Enough to get budget back, maybe, at the very least. But this was just safe and I'm upset.

Andy Walsh: 00:28:16

It's an interesting place to land. And, yeah, I. I think one of my challenges is as we spend more and more time with the Mandalorian and Grogu, is I just.

I think the concept of Grogu wasn't built to have legs this long. The. The idea that he's.

That he's an adorable little toddler who is also 50 years old and traumatized and doesn't speak because of trauma, not lack of maturity, and is expected to understand the ramifications of going into battle and prepare himself for that, but also can't be trusted to not eat all the snacks and press all the buttons because he's just an adorable little toddler. So, yeah, I think there's also a clash there, a total clash there, a conceptual clash there that they're just. The more time. It's like a magic trick.

It works great, but the more time you stare at it, the more times you show me the magic trick, I'm gonna figure out what's going on there. And you don't want me to pay attention to the. To that so much. So we'll see where that goes going forward.

Will Rose: 00:29:13

But I want to get a real fast gripe. Real, real quick gripe. Like, with him telling, like, Gregory to heal. Like, what. What are we doing? Like, that made me so bad.

I was like, he's not a dog. He's your friend. He's your son. Stop. Tell him to heal. Like, he's older than you. That he's older than you and you're telling him to heal.

Like, I like, hey, come here. No, leave it. Or like, come on. Like anything you would do with a. Call him, like, a, to heal. That.

Christian Ashley: 00:29:39

That.

Will Rose: 00:29:39

B, he did it a number of times. But, yeah, that's one of the things I. I really liked that sequence the second time around.

I did think the first time I saw it, I thought that sequence of him now, huda, like that callbacks to Dagobah and. And the swamp and all that stuff drug on too long the first time I saw it for some reason. But the second time I really leaned into it.

And I love the arc of him being him himself and becoming his own person and taking care. You know, that. That whole tagline here at my mom's house, taking care of my mom who has dementia and like the whole.

The old taking care of the young and then the young taking care of the old man. It just hit me right in the fields and this is the way. And that's the only time they said it with that. And I was like, yeah, that I really.

The second time around, I just enjoyed that so much.

Evan Garcia: 00:30:25

It's amazing how Star wars grows up with you like that, right?

Will Rose: 00:30:28

Yeah. Yeah. And that was great. So him telling Grogu to heal and then I really. This was the spot. This was the movie where you had him say the word.

Whether it's this is the way or whether somebody's name. Why they didn't do that in this movie is just beyond me. I'm so, you know, you don't have to have Los, like Luke Skywalker fly in. That's fine. But.

But to have him, like, say his first word in this first debut in the film. I don't know why they didn't do that. So anyway, that's. That's my gripes.

But I love that seeing now Hutta and him finding the old wise man in the rocking chair and stuff like, take it. Go around. I was like, I'm. I'm all in this. I could sit on that for a while. That was, you know, season four.

That would have been a whole episode of, like, episode six in the series. And just like, lean into it. I would have been fine. But yeah, yeah, it was good.

Andy Walsh: 00:31:21

Kevin, you want to hop in with some of your thoughts? Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:31:23

Kevin.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:31:23

Yeah. Christian and I had very similar thoughts in the what's News episode. And I would say I'm still pretty much in the same mindset as well.

Like, I. I've still only seen it once. I am planning on taking my niece and nephew next weekend. And I. That it's one of those things, like, I think my niece will do fine.

I am like, my nephew is getting huge into Star wars, but he is sick. So I'm a little concerned about the. Some of the. Like, I don't think he'll be terrified, but it's like, after that initial scene, they'll be okay.

But I think he will enjoy it. But that's my only concern going in. But, yes, very similar to Christian. I enjoyed it. I had a good time.

And I have wanted to see these characters on the big screen since the show premiered. Whether that would be in the form of they release a couple episodes at the beginning of the season in theaters or do a movie.

I don't think the movie from a storytelling perspective was perfect by Any means, I think it was definitely several episodes strung together.

Even though they said, yeah, they had written season four originally, then they got the order from Disney to make it a movie, so they scrapped those plans. Like, yeah, that's fine. But they still definitely wrote the screenplay as a culmination of a few episodes.

And I, I brought this up on what's News the other night, but I said, because I've been hearing over and over again for really, like, even since before the movie dropped that, oh, it. They never, it's never been a success where they've done a standalone movie that's set in the same universe as a TV show. That's been good.

And I disagree with that because Batman Massacre the Phantasm is set in the universe of Batman, the Animated Series. And it is a phenomenal movie. And it's.

You can watch that movie without really knowing anything about Batman or the Animated Series or the lore, and you get this deep emotional journey and a great arc for the character. So I think it can be done. And yes, I do wish there was more of that arc and emotional depth in this movie. Still totally fine with.

I mean, I love Indiana Jones. I love adventure serials like that.

So there's nothing wrong with making a safe, more fun adventure like this, but at the same time, still have some kind of development. And I, I added to your point. I do think Grogu needs to evolve at some point.

I know it's very much a corporate clash where, yes, they've built the marketing and the identity of the character around him being a cute puppet version of what Yoda would be like as a baby, but if they want the character to grow at all and for this relationship to evolve, then the character needs to grow up. And, you know, that's, That'll be a risk. But I, I think Star wars still need. Star wars can have fun adventures and also take risks.

And I'll get into a little more of that when we talk about where the franchise can go from here.

Will Rose: 00:34:19

Evan, allude to the fact that Star wars is going to outlive all of us. And I believe that as well, especially me being one of the elder statesmen here on the podcast.

But, man, before I die, can I, can I please see, like, a Star wars movie 500 Years in the future and have, like, a badass little Grogu with a Mandalorian outfit, wielding a lightsaber, kicking butt, leader of a new Jedi Order? Like, I, I need that. Can you Disney, I'm putting that in the universe. Somebody. I need that before I die.

If I'm 80 years old and I have grandkids that can take to the, the theater to see that movie, that's fine if it's 30 years from now. But like I. Please, I need to see a grown up Grogu wielding that mask, some. Some beskar armor and, and a lightsaber. I need it. I need it real quick.

Christian Ashley: 00:35:07

I did remember one thing. As someone who despises the book of Boba Fett and the many things that it represents, I love the ending that they gave the twins.

It made me feel really good.

Evan Garcia: 00:35:18

Nice. Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:35:20

You know, speaking of, we've already kind of touched on some of the legacy aspect of this movie that Mandalorian is thinking about Grogu's future as well as his own future.

And since we're in a year where the podcast is in a year where our theme is the faces behind us and the legacy of different people and so forth, does anybody else want to kind of riff on that idea or have some more thoughts about sort of the role or the theme in this movie? Because I think if it does have a theme, it's maybe a little bit light on that. But if it does have a theme, certainly one of them is Andy.

Will Rose: 00:35:52

What would you think your theme would be if it had an overall theme?

Andy Walsh: 00:35:55

Yeah, I think, you know, you know, how we, how we prepare the next generation to go beyond us.

Evan Garcia: 00:36:01

Yeah, Yoda's quote for sure.

Christian Ashley: 00:36:03

Yeah, I think it handles it effectively enough. And when with him and Grogu, it's this idea, he is definitely going to outlive him. We know Yoda lives to be 900 years old.

Why should Grogu be any different?

Assuming he doesn't die at some point in time of unnatural causes, which I wouldn't ask for, which is why he's definitely not there at the Academy like the other nameless characters who died for no good reason because, you know, secret trilogy. It's one of those things with him, like his story is going to last very long, but the foundations of who he is.

Yeah, he started with the Jedi Order training there and now however many years in the future since then, like 20, 30, some like that's where he started, but this is where he is at now.

So there's a long period there where there seems to be like the stagnation or maybe he was just on the run, happened to survive on the careless of strangers, the kindness of strangers. Maybe we don't know because he can't talk, but what we can do is see him interact with his dad. And like, he's called out multiple times as his.

His father, Dan is. Because that's exactly who he is.

And now I see the man that Grogu is going to become as he ages is going to be affected immensely by the first real person in his life to, like, as far as we're aware, take care of him in this way. Look after him, teach him. Like at the end, you're teaching him how to fly the ship instead of just pressing buttons. That's huge.

No, he' a foundling right now. But eventually he'll get that armor one day and it'll look super cute. But I don't know if they'll ever give him a helmet because we can't show it.

We have to show his face for merchandising and the like. But yeah, I think that works well. But also with Radha on the other side of things. Well, could you have a worse father in this universe?

I'm outside of, you know, Palpatine, maybe. We. We have. Thank you.

A crime lord ordered the deaths of countless people, run slave trade rings, drug rings, smuggling, and causing all this death and devastation wherever he went. And now you want to become your own man.

Well, yeah, as meable as that line is, as Kevin talked about when we did it, you know, your father's job at a hut, blah, blah, blah. Well, yeah, I mean, that makes perfect sense. I don't want to be that man. I want to be my own man. So let me make myself into something new.

And I love his decision to become part of the New Republic and, like, do what it seems like no other hut in that sphere of influence has ever done before.

You know, bringing more characterization to a species rather than once, like I said earlier in the other episode, just making them be gangsters and criminals.

Will Rose: 00:38:37

Yeah, I love that, Christian. And yeah, that bugged me too. Like, there's two things that really bugged me even the second go around. Like why they do this.

One is, you know, heal Grogu, and the other one is like, I'm my own man. I'm like, dude, you're a hut. Why couldn't he in huti say, I am my own hut? Would have been awesome. Just had that one subtitle. You're why he said that?

I don't know. He said a number of times.

But then I think this is also about apprenticeship in terms of as much as I would have loved Grogu to stay with Luke Skywalker and learn to be a Jedi and be a part of the new Jedi Order and whatever. How they wanted to do that. I would have loved him to stay with, with Luke. That's just my thing.

But I understand the decision, corporate decision to like, we got to get these guys back together. They're cash cow. Let's do it.

But for him now to be an apprentice, like, I was really worried all these things of, like, flipping around on AD ATs and, and flying and jet packs. I'm like, dude, why are you bringing this toddler with you on these things? Leave him on the ship. Like, it needs to be safe.

Why are you taking them with you? But to see being modeled, how he does things and fights. But also he's now turned a leaf as well in terms of the.

Djarin is like, I'm not a bounty hunter anymore. I work for the Republic. I don't work for the huts. He, he's found a way, an ethical kind of moral compass for him and how he operates.

And he's showing that to Grogu as well and modeling that for him. I think is, is pretty cool to. Pretty cool to see. And I love that. Apprenticeship, that would be the theme that I see. Apprenticeship. Yeah.

There's adventures, there's monsters, all that stuff. But, but he's modeled for him. I sent the meme of like, the last of us, of Ellie, Healing, Pascal, but.

And here you have the same thing happening here. But I, I, I think, you know, he's modeling for Grogu.

And then that scene of him on now how to, like, taking care of him and learning how to fend for himself was, was a really cool scene. That, that is, that moves the story a little bit further, further along for me.

Evan Garcia: 00:40:43

Yeah, like, like the film does touch on the faces behind these characters, which is ironic because it's what we're doing. So that's pretty cool. I love all that.

Andy Walsh: 00:40:54

Yeah, go ahead, Kevin, if you had something you wanted to add.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:40:57

No, I think, I mean, there one comment I had coming out of it was, I mean, they don't do much with it, but I thought it was interesting that they have them fighting droids toward the end because Din Djarin's parents were killed by battle droids. And so there is slight callbacks there. I wish they had done maybe a little more with that in terms of. Because, like, that's the thing about.

I think one of the key elements of Din Djarin and Grogu's relationship is that Grogu brings out some of the vulnerability in him when he is this hardened bounty hunter Mandalorian, like, always keeping this code. But the reality is like he has these human emotions as well that he grapples with. And so I think there was some of that.

And I, I do really love the scene where Grogu has to revive Din. I think, you know, there that could have been, maybe they raised the stakes a little more emotionally.

Like, obviously, you know, he's not gonna die there, but, but still, maybe like, like, yeah, I, I, I made. Yeah, yeah, that would have been a great, like, you know, hey, Star is back. Okay, we're gonna, gonna kill Mando here.

But, but yeah, just raise the stakes there. But I do like that, you know, how the relationship is evolving. I think there is more potential for that.

And that's why hopefully we will get a, another season at some point to really expand on those themes because in many ways this, this movie, like at least the blueprint of it, was what I wanted more of from season three, because I think season three is a very mixed bag of like tying up loose ends from Clone wars mythology.

And I mean, I love characters like Bo Katan, but I thought the focus was so split and this was more the two of them going on missions and bonding more and you know, exploring characters like Rada and those themes. So there was a lot here that I think would be better expanded upon in another season of the show.

Will Rose: 00:43:00

And I can see where people go and take their kids to this movie and they're like, I want to know more. I'm going to go back and watch this series and for them they're gonna be like, oh, that's why, you know, these droids.

That's why I said that's so meaningful.

Oh, you know, he does have a whole like the armor and the religion and what the, that, what it, why it meant so much to take his helmet off or on and what that means. So I, I could see it as like die hard fans are there. They know those callbacks and, and what means for that.

But for people who are just jumping in with this movie can go back and watch these, these, these, these seasons and catch up and, and do that in the meantime, while we're waiting for the next movie or the next series, I, I imagine people will, will hop back in and word of mouth, like, this is a fun movie if you like Star wars, if your kids hop right in and, and I, I think it's a smart decision and well done. It is a little safe. I agree with Christian. There's some of that. They're like taking a little bit more risk in there.

Andy Walsh: 00:43:55

I'm.

Will Rose: 00:43:55

But, but I'm the die hard fan that wants to see more and see some of that stuff happen. And, but, but yeah, this is, this is fine for what it is and people jump back in and we'll go from there.

Andy Walsh: 00:44:05

You mentioned the, you know, taking off the helmet, so that's a big thing. You know, the Mandalorian on the show, he's part of this group that always keeps their helmet on in the presence of other people.

As was seen in the trailer. The helmet comes off for a bit because you can't pay Pedro Pascal to be in your movie and not show people what they want. The face of Pedro Pascal.

And yeah, so how are we. Have we bought into the whole Mandalorian cults and religions and things?

Were we invested in that and did the handling of that in the movie make sense? Did it feel just more like a marketing mandate? Or do we not care because we don't really care about the Mandalorian code?

How did that work for people?

Will Rose: 00:44:46

I was a little confused. I thought he had already kind of put that behind him. I know I forgot what happened in season three.

I know they had these two factions of the progressives and the, and the people who don't take their, their helmets off and more conservative with the lack of better labels. But like the, I thought they kind of like, oh, we're coming together. And it's, it's a little bit looser now.

So for him to be like, oh, we know your lord, you can't take your helmet off was a. Was a little confused. Me, I was like, I thought we moved past that.

But, but if he's still, you know, taking on that creed, then yeah, I thought they, they teased it enough. I, I don't know. You know, Evan, if your kid knows the lore of that made sense for him, that's going to go too deep.

But, you know, it's, it's a part of that helmet. You got to take his helmet off. You got to show his face a little bit in the movie.

I think you have Toby and all that stuff with what you're going to do in terms of Mask with Spider man and on the actors. Iron Man.

Evan Garcia: 00:45:43

Yeah.

Being online and, and, and, and talking about this with some people online, which, by the way, if you're listening to this, please follow us on our socials and stuff like that. So. But I was a little bummed that it didn't like what you were saying, Will.

Like, because, because, because, because to me, I thought this was just my bias, but I was like, I found out that it wasn't just me thinking this, but it was the. The.

The seasons one through three of a Mandalorian were very much a deconstruction out of, like, fundamentalism and high control stuff that I deeply resonated with. And I was kind of bummed that, that. That. That this wasn't in this film. But then I was kind of.

I came to peace with it because there's a point where you have to move on from that stuff, where you have to. Have to find your own footing and to help take and help take care of those that. That you are leaving behind. So, yeah, so. So kind of. So kind of.

It touched on it, but not really with the other helmet scene.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:47:00

So, yeah, I would say there's a lot. It's like, the movie doesn't really touch on in terms of narrative from previous seasons because. Well, because will with it.

So at the beginning of season three, he had to bathe in the waters there with the children of the Watch because he had removed his helmet in previous seasons. So they do all that, but also, like, season three ended with him and Grogu essentially retiring.

And then they don't really explain from that point to here why they're back in action, because at the beginning of this movie, you know, they're back to hunting down rogue Imperial officers. So I just kind of. When I was watching the movie, I just kind of had to divorce myself from, like, they're not really gonna have much. There is.

And there isn't connected tissue here because. Yeah, I. I mean, I would love to see more of that, Lauren. I'll get to that in just.

But I was all saying a little bit about where I think they should go in terms of both taking risks and exploring the more philosophical stuff, and both with Mandalorian culture and with Jedi, because that stuff I'm super fascinated by. And also, you know, the more, say, fun adventure stuff. But I just. Yeah, I don't think there was.

There's not really much to say about how it addresses the children of the Watch and Mando's background with what they do in this movie. There's a lot more of that in the series, and I think they could have continued that again if this. I. I sound like a broken record.

If this had been a season. But. But, yeah, there. There is some.

But to your point, people who are kind of newer to this could go back and watch the show after that, after seeing the movie, if they've never seen it. And that's. You know, that works too.

Will Rose: 00:48:44

Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:48:45

Yeah.

Christian Ashley: 00:48:45

I think this, along with many things is a casualty of the writing of season three in the fact that we have all these grand ideas set up. We have, you know, Grogu leaving, you know, Manda behind, you know, go with Luke as one of his, if not his first student.

We have the whole Darksaber now. He's in control, like, by right of all Mandalorians everywhere.

So what does that mean for someone who's been raised as the wrong kind of fundamentalist versus, you know, you know, different the way typically Mandalorians are fundamentalist in their regards. And now that was taken away from everything too, because, oh, no, we can't have our characters changing or anything.

We have to keep things simple and so the audiences can be aware and just, you know, look at the up from their phones every now and then and be okay with themselves. It's more of a Netflix credo, but I'm sure Disney plus is just as guilty of that.

So it not being focused on here made perfect sense to me because that would confuse people. We can't possibly, you know, expect everyone to show up for people. Yeah, we can't. People expect them to do their work before they watch something.

You know, they just want to pay money and see something.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:49:52

How dare we assume that audiences have intelligence? Come on. It's like, it's like the studio motto.

Andy Walsh: 00:50:00

Well, we've touched a lot, a lot of things. And we've also mentioned the length of this episode and we've mentioned what they could do in future seasons of the Mandalorian things.

So I think we are going to act like a TV show and not a movie and pause for station identification and come back in another episode and talk more about the movie if people want to, but also more focused on where Star wars could go from here, both with these characters and other characters and so forth. So, yeah, we're going to pause for a station identification.

We are systematic ecology and we greatly appreciate when you like, rate, review, subscribe all the things and all the places, YouTube, podcast catchers, podcast distributors and so forth. And becoming a member on our Fourth Wall site.

So look for that link in the show notes in the show description, wherever you're listening and or watching this and become a member and you can get a shout out if you financially support us, like our member Justin Vaughn, who has been contributing. You can get access to our merch. You can get access to exclusive content like the question we will be talking about later.

So we will come back in a second regular episode to talk about the future of Star Wars. We will give our recommendations there.

But Then there will be a separate bonus question segment for members only on which of the many, many Star wars movies that have been announced post Disney but have not been made. The Rian Johnson trilogy. The Taika Waititi movie. The Kevin Feige movie. The Steven Soderbergh Kylo Ren movie.

All of these movies, I know some of them might still get made. Some of them have kind of been officially, unofficially axed. But for the purposes of this question, you are the emperor of Star Wars.

You can make whatever of these movies you want. So we'll talk. We'll find out what our hosts want to see get made from that list in that bonus question.

But yeah, please check that out like this video 50 times so that we can see Will Rose don a Rod of the Hut costume and do some Rod of the Hutt choreography which I will just throw out there. I did not expect so much Hutt fighting and I didn't. There was some, there was some clever choreography there.

Evan Garcia: 00:52:02

Pretty creative.

Andy Walsh: 00:52:02

Shout out to the fight choreographer for this film who came up with that action. Also shout out to Latif Crowder, who spends more time in the mando suit than Pedro allegedly doing all the stunts for the Mandalorian.

So good stuff there. But yes. So for now we are just going to take a pause. We hope to see you in the future episode talking about the future of Star Wars.

And until then, remember, if you are going to keep do so systematically.