Heroes We Emulate: Celebrating Comic Book Legends!

Will Rose: 00:01:11

Which characters are your all time favorites and who do you look up to that you would like to emulate them in your life in this upcoming new year?

Hello, fellow geekologists. Welcome to another episode of Systematic Geekology.

And today's episode is a part of a new Year's tradition that we have here at Systematic Ecology where we reflect on icons in our fandoms and how we want to emulate them. And so in the past we've done things like icons and video games and now we're gonna reflect on icons in our comic books in the fandom of comics.

I have two of my favorite geekologists here who we. I emulate them when it comes to their fandom in comic books and I keep, I love geeking out with them about comics. So I'm really excited about today.

Kevin and Andy, thanks for being here. And I have a question. I have a question. I'd like to start off with this question. I was curious about this.

What's the first thing you think of when you hear the word icon? Andy, we'll start with you. What do you think of when you hear that word icon?

Andy Walsh: 00:02:32

I've been a computer person since before computers had icons. So I stare at a desktop eight hours a day for work.

That is where my brain goes, is all the little symbols and images that we use to represent computer features, especially the ones that no longer pertain to physical objects that do that thing like the floppy disk for save. Why is that still the save icon when a whole generation of computer users has no Idea what a 3 1/2 inch floppy disk looks like?

Will Rose: 00:03:03

Great question, great question. I love that. Yeah, good. Kevin, what comes to your mind when you think of icon Keanu Reeves?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:03:10

Because that, like, because I was thinking of like, who is one of the most universally beloved people in like an age where there's so much hatred and bigotry and everything like, but like, who doesn't like Keanu Reeves?

So I mean, if they're like, if you, if humanity lasts for another few hundred years, which that's a big if, but if it does, and there are statues of historical figures of our time, I hope there's a Keanu Reeves statue down the road and people can aspire to.

Will Rose: 00:03:41

I agree.

I think, you know, in terms of my algorithm, every now and then you'll have like celebrity interviews and they'll, it'll flash up Keanu Reeves and like some kind of cool comment he had about some question and leaves the audience and the host breath breathless and without words. And you're kind of like, oh, there you go. He's just a cool, cool cucumber man, that's for sure. Yeah.

When I think of icon, that first thing that comes to mind as a religious person, a person of faith, like I think of iconography when it comes to like Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox or just Orthodox iconography and stained glass about these kind of heroes and saints of faith that are portrayed in images. And as we're talking about comic books today, like really that was the graphic novel of the past.

That was the, the comic books of the day are painted imagery and art of the icons of who to look up to. And so it's, it's interesting to me that that art, you know, finds a way to capture the, hopefully the best in humanity.

And then we have this means of fandom of comic books and sequential art and graphic novels of, of these heroes that, you know, we look up to or enamored by the story, entertained by what's going on in their ongoing storyline. So yeah, that's what comes to my mind.

s their graphic novels of the: 1500

He was like, you're right. And I'm like, yeah, there he goes. Yeah. So we're going to talk about that today. We're talking about icons and specifically comic books.

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As I mentioned, last year's theme was video game icons. You can go back into the playlist there in the show notes and find what we said in the past and even others, what they've lifted up.

And so our task today is to share our top three comic book icons.

It's not necessarily the most popular, what we think the most popular are out in the world, but to us right now, today, where we are in our life, in our journey. If we had to pick our top three comic book icons, what would they be? And so we're going to list three to one.

You know, starting with three, then number two, and then number one, and then after each hero, we'll share a little bit about the hero. I'm sure most of our audience will know which hero we're talking about and who they are in their backstory.

We don't have to explain all that, but a part of that is going to share what's a characteristic that stands out to you about this particular comic book hero, icon, character, and then is there something within them that you want to emulate for this upcoming year that you would, as a goal, do that? Does that make sense, guys? Does that make sense? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, let's hop right in, starting at number three.

Well, before we do that, I guess, you know, this could be somebody's first episode, first issue. When it talks about comic books, what's your history with comic books? I know these guys pretty well.

But let's give a little geek cred here in terms of where we are with our comic book fandom. Kevin, we'll start with you.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:08:13

So I was born in 93, which was a great time to be a nerd, because in the 90s, we were blessed with the animated series, X Men, the Animated Series, Spider man, the Animated Series. So my introduction to a lot of the mainstream superheroes and DC and Marvel universes came through cartoons.

And then at the early: 2000

I mean, I had a handful in late elementary school that came with action figures. Because in the days of Toys R Us, when you got the Marvel Legends figures, they would usually come up with a single issue. There so I'd have those.

But then I started really getting graphic novels in middle school so like Batman Long Halloween or Superman for All Seasons. The big heavy hitters.

And then I got into the really mature ones in high school and then really started collecting single issues late high school because that's when I finally had some income. And so I and also a friend had got. I was. I had surgery the first week of my senior year of high school.

So a friend from church back then got me a subscription for a few titles for new 52. So I was. That was like my first like collection of monthly comics. And then from then on in college it was.

was at the image boom in like: 2012

So that's kind of a brief overview of my comic book reading history.

Will Rose: 00:09:58

Nice. Yeah. Kevin and I share the same store. Same. We have pull lists over at Ultima Comics in Durham, Cary, Raleigh, all across the land.

So that's kind of cool running to each other at, at the cons around here even before we became co hosts here at Cismic Ecology. But I love it that some of the cartoons and the. Sorry more cartoons, animated series and the movies you were like where's the source material?

I got to go find some of these graphic novels of where these stories come from. And that eventually led to you get reading, you know the best.

What's the best graphic novels out there that emulate these particular characters and then go into the single issues and kind of going back and forth. I think that's kind of the goal of of those shows is to help people go find the source material as well and keep doing to it.

So I love it that that that worked that, that that worked for you.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:10:45

I'm a product of it sometimes. Hollywood had a good effect in that regard for me.

Will Rose: 00:10:50

Great. Andy, how about you?

Andy Walsh: 00:10:52

grew up on the reruns of the: 1960

And then my first comic books would have been big I think library edition collections printed in black and white of Silver age Batman and Superman comics. Batman gets hypnotized to time travel to the old west those era of Batman, Superman comics.

Will Rose: 00:11:30

So good. Yeah.

Andy Walsh: 00:11:31

So that was my first comic book reading. Then I was into baseball cards for a while in, in early junior high there was no comic book store that I could get myself to in my area.

But There was a baseball card store that I could get myself to and so I got into collecting baseball cards and then they branched out into other kinds of cards. And so I started branching out into the Marvel Comics line of trading cards.

And that was my in depth introduction to not just like the Captain Americas and Spider Mans of the world, but like the Cloak and Daggers and the Guardians of the Galaxy and so forth with just reading about them on these trading cards.

Plus a friend of mine who thought I might be interested in certain X Men comics got me into the relaunch in the early 90s with the end of the Chris Claremont era, the Jim Lee Wills Portassio, that kind of era of X Men, the relaunch of X Men 1 and Uncanny291 or 271, something like that. And in particular the Peter David X Factor relaunch there with issue 71.

And so I was reading monthly X Men comics primarily through much of junior high and high school.

Took a break in college and then ironically I could walk to a comic book store while I was in college, but a character who will come up later was not being published at the time.

gain in the. Yeah. In the mid-: 2000

And yeah, but pretty much consistently reading especially through the dawn of Marvel Unlimited, kind of keeping up with all kinds of Marvel comics that way and trying to broaden my horizons. I talked a little bit on our indie comic episode with Kevin.

Just recently tried from there to okay, well if I like this, what's something like that but not published by Marvel so that I'm not just a Marvel zombie.

Will Rose: 00:13:50

Nice.

Andy Walsh: 00:13:51

Yeah, so I think I've branched out some and expanded my horizon some in the past 20 or so years still. Obviously lots of things haven't read.

Lots of good things that are still on the table but trying to appreciate the, the art form and not just the superhero nonsense.

Will Rose: 00:14:06

Nice. Now is there a comic book store near you that you get like weekly pool you have to travel a certain way. Is there like a home store you pop in?

Andy Walsh: 00:14:14

Yeah, I don't have a weekly polis per se, but my store that I visit the most often is Big Bang Comics in Swickley, which is a little ways away. Not quite walking distance, but convenient enough. But yeah, that's where If I'm going to pick up something in the store, that's where I will go.

Will Rose: 00:14:32

Nice. Nice. Yeah. I've shared before that kind of what awakened the geek in me was Star Wars.

And I was definitely a kid that was into Star wars and action figures and imagination and play and fandom and Saturday morning cartoons. And I would catch the old reruns of Adam West, Batman and the Super Friends, anything superhero or superpower imagination I loved as a kid.

And I definitely stumbled upon the spinner rack on in a store not far from my house or on the way riding a bike to school and would grab comics and fell in love with X Men. Comics was kind of like my main fandom as a kid and with my friends and collected that. And yeah, I think it was high school.

I started falling out of not collecting comics as much, but would always keep my eye on it. And of course, the big movies and the fandom and the animated series I would watch in college and those kinds of.

And it was the early: 2000

And it wasn't until my first Father's Day, Hannah was a baby and Cindy was like, hey, you know, remember your childhood.

Here's an old X Men comic I found at a comic book store that an X Men comic and the main story had Colossus in it and, you know, enjoy being a kid again. Find your inner child. And she didn't know the Pandora box, Pandora's box that she opened. And I was like, this is gonna be my hobby.

And just started going to the comic store every Wednesday since then, diving in and finding what I liked. And branched, of course, as a Marvel X Men guy, but loved Batman and Superman and the big three, but, you know, a good story is a good story.

I eventually found where I. Not just the characters that I like, but as the creators and the author and the. The artists that I really like.

So if Tom King's switched over to Marvel or switched to a different character to start writing, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna see what his take is on. On this book or a particular artist that I like. So I find myself. There's definitely heroes I really like, and I'll share about them here in a moment.

But. But right now, it's the creators. There's certain creators I really like. And then I'll follow and see.

See what they're going to do out there with certain characters. So that's what I'm looking for.

And I love the suggestions and recommendations of my fellow ecologists here on seismic ecology, as much I know about this genre of. Of geekdom, they give me suggestions and recommendations all the time that are. Broaden my horizons. So I appreciate it. Cool. Thanks y'.

Andy Walsh: 00:17:14

All.

Will Rose: 00:17:14

And yeah, our listeners and friends chime in and let us know, how did you get into comics and what are your favorites out there, too? So we'd love to hear from you.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:17:22

lent Bob secret stash back in: 2018

Because it was like Ming, Walt and Mike were all there. So that was fun. And I met Kevin Smith, too, on different occasions.

Will Rose: 00:17:54

That's fun. That's fun. Yeah, that was a good show. I remember watching Walking Dead and that would come on after. And then I'm like, hey, put it all together.

That's good stuff. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing. I think I can probably guess what Andy and Kevin are going to say, but they might surprise me.

So we're going to walk through our top three, starting with number three, and we kind of go around the horn. Andy, we'll start with you. What is your number three comic book icon character that you want to lift up today that you want to emulate?

I can't wait to hear.

Andy Walsh: 00:18:22

Yeah, so when thinking about this topic, I was thinking along the lines of characters that I related to and identified with. And so they aren't necessarily characters to emulate in all respects. And that especially applies to this number three.

But characters that I relate to and I think do have some worthwhile characteristics. Number three is Hank Pym.

You know, obviously some major flaws, some major issues in his history that he is still, you know, atoning for, both in his personal life and in his superhero life, and not trying to minimize any of that.

But the thing that most connected with for me was an issue, and I've talked about this on the podcast before, an issue by Mark Wade that was a tie in to the Age of Ultron comic event called Age of AI and it's just about Hank Pym's kind of backstory as a kid growing up and being interested in science, but science as play, science as creativity, sciences, investigation as understanding the world around you. So many scientist characters in these science fiction stories, for obvious reasons, are more technologists and engineers.

They're all about applying science to make the gadget that's going to save the world or stop the bad guy or what have you. But Hank Pym in many respects is portrayed as just a guy who is really interested in how the world works and wants to study things.

And especially in the movies where he doesn't carry some of the same baggage as the comic book character. I've really appreciated that. Here's a guy who loves to study ants. He has made that his life's passion.

Yes, some practical things have come out of that, some applications have come out of that, because that's always a trade off in science. You got to get funding somehow. And usually the funders would like to see something that they can get a return on investment from.

But at the end of the day, he just wants to know more about ants and hang out with ants. And it makes me so happy that so much time on screen has been spent seeing this guy get to pursue that passion.

And even in Quantumania, there is a movie, a moment that probably only me and maybe three other people were excited about, but he comes riding in with his ants to say to help save the day. And it's just great to see that his passion for science has brought him such joy and fulfillment in his life. That's what I like to see about him.

Yes, we can talk about all the other things. And yes, there are definitely flaws and things that need to be redeemed.

But more so than any other character that I've seen in superhero comics, he's a scientist for the sake of science.

Will Rose: 00:21:15

Yeah. So we can think of things we don't want to emulate when it comes to him and comic books and directions.

Andy Walsh: 00:21:20

They made with him.

Will Rose: 00:21:21

But in terms of his scientific play or mindset or the curiosity behind that, for curiosity's sake is really good. That's good characteristic. You're saying that's what you like to emulate up in this upcoming year?

Andy Walsh: 00:21:32

Yeah.

And in fact, even before we started this project, I have set a goal for myself to try to get at least one paper written on a science project that I have undertaken. That's apart from my day job. This is how I finally decided because I work for a computer software company as a scientist.

And so I've had a lot of Existential angst about whether I'm a scientist for a long time. But I've decided that the answer now is yes. I am a scientist because I'm doing science in my spare time because I want to.

And so I have written a simulation of the X Men Danger Room and I come up with scientific experiments that you can do with this thing. And my goal for this year is to submit a paper, at least one publication to a preprint archive server.

Takes a long time to actually get scientific papers published.

So I can't necessarily goal that by the end of the year something will be published in a journal, but I can definitely get something up on a preprint server this year if I. On my own effort. I have to do the effort, obviously I have to do the work. It's not a.

But if, if I hold myself to it, I should be able to accomplish that.

Will Rose: 00:22:38

So I, I love if there's an eccentric billionaire out there who is listening and wants to give a one time donation and fund this project and we can have a systemic ecology Danger Room simulation training ground. You can help us out with that. We. We would not turn away. Turn that away. We would not turn that away.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:22:58

Forget the rest of the podcast. I, I want to hear the rest of these.

Will Rose: 00:23:02

Oh my gosh. That's. That's next. Coming soon to you on systemic ecology, please. We're going to, we're going to interview Andy for, for that paper for sure. Cool.

Yeah, we can talk about that all day. You got me curious. That's great. See how like, see how curiosity is contagious? Yeah, that's good, Kevin. All right, who's your number three?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:23:20

Okay, so when I think about really awesome origin stories in comics and then in other aspects of pop culture, you know, I think about like the Flash, okay, really cool. Get struck by lightning, develops super speed. Green Lantern, gets a magic ring and becomes a space cop.

The Fantastic Four go to space, they come back with superpowers. Those are all really cool.

But there is one character who is the daughter of a demon and is meant to be a vessel for the apocalypse, but ends up becoming a teenage superhero who helps her found the family, fights her evil father. And that, of course, is Raven from the DC Universe, created by Marv Wolfman and George Perez.

And this is a character who I was first introduced to through the Teen Titans animated series growing up. Really all of my picks, you know, teaser, were introduced to me in other media. But yeah, I love Teen Titans Grow Up. Growing up.

It was such a great show and, and Raven had to me, the most compelling storyline. I don't know if I relate to her in every way.

I wouldn't call myself necessarily like goth girl kind of thing, and I'm obviously not the kid of a demon, but nonetheless, I just really was fascinated by her story from the beginning. And then when I got to reading the new Teen Titans run where she was first created, I was mesmerized by those stories.

And it's one of those things where I'm like, how has Raven not appeared in a big screen live action movie? I mean, they're like, she has appeared in live action in the Titans series and they are working on a Teen Titans movie in the James Gunn universe.

But still, it should have happened a long time ago. Raven and Teen Titans the Teen Titans are, I think, the closest thing to X Men in the DC Universe that there's this. They're a group of outsiders.

They're, you know, they live in the shadow of the Justice League and they have to constantly prove themselves, even though they're just awesome all around. And I love the group dynamics.

And what I love about Raven the most is again, she was meant to be this vessel for evil and to bring about, you know, doom for everyone.

But she chooses a different path and she chooses her found family and, you know, and even though she has, you know, these feelings, she with dealing with just her own identity, the darkness and whether her powers are a curse or not, it's ultimately her choice that enables her to be a hero. And, you know, she. Even someone as introverted and kind of isolated as her, she eventually comes to love the other Titans.

And, and the show really got explored that for a lot for me because they didn't reveal her origin until later. And it's not until the Titans want to surprise Raven on her birthday that we learn why she hates her birthday so much.

And that leads to learning about Trigon and everything. And I was like, wow, this is really deep for a kids show. But I loved how they did it and they didn't reveal that origin right away.

So, yeah, I, you know, and I, when I think about ways that I want to emulate a character like Raven, it is again, it's that the way she makes a choice, she doesn't resolve to, oh, well, this is what I'm here to do. You know, I have, I have to be evil. I'm the daughter of a demon.

No, she chooses a different path for herself and she chooses family and chooses hope, even when she is surrounded by darkness. And she has so much trauma. She Brings to the. But she's able to heal through her found family. And so I always love that about her.

And again, just so such cool powers. And I love, I mean the phrase like Azarath Metro and synthos like that was just so iconic there.

Like Teen Titans had a lot of great catchphrases and iconic moments. So I always love that. But just such a cool character.

And you know, we've seen her in animation and in again the live action Titan series which I thought they did a good job with her. The show as a whole is a mixed bag but. And it kind of went off the rails earlier. But that first season is not bad.

But I cannot wait to see her on the big screen because the, you know, while I think she has certainly had a pop culture impact, but is still not, I feel like as well known to mainstream audiences as she could be. And I hope that you know, when a Teen Titans movie comes out that can really get new generations interested in her and the rest of the Titans.

So Raven is my number three. Just most iconic, relatable in different ways. But yeah. And yeah.

Will Rose: 00:28:18

Yeah.

And so like to emulate that kind of that found family but not nature versus nurture or where you're born from or just because your family tree looks a certain way doesn't mean. Or you have. You have to keep the same patterns of that kind of stuff. You can go on and choose a different path is. It's pretty good. Pretty good.

I like that. Kevin. Good. Okay. For, for my number three.

You know, you would think it's hard not to go outside the, the big three in both universes of DC and, and Marvel. But I'm going to go with. Going with Nightwing. I'm going with Nightwing.

I'm going with Dick Grayson, the original Robin who you know, he was named by Superman himself. Yeah. And his kind of first appearance, the first time he appeared as Nightwing or named his night when it was in Superman158.

And but his first appearance was in Tales of teen Titans number 44.

And of course we have the Teen Titans with Marv Wolfman and George Perez as, as Kevin said and you know, with the popularity of the Mary Mutants and The X Men, D.C. created their version of that and them kind of creating the Teen Titans to be their version of this kind of younger, relatable teenage team of superheroes that are going through all the drama of relationships and in life. And I love it that that the original Robin who's different from Batman, he's not brooding. Yes. He has his own trauma, yes, his.

He watched his parents die just like Bruce did. But. But he's a circus performer. He's an acrobat. He's a performer.

He's light hearted, he's witty, he, he doesn't mind making jokes and he's a bit more light hearted and hopeful and, and he has kind of all the strength and leaderships and detective skills and fighting skills as Batman is trained by the best.

But he still has his personality of being a part of a circus and understand about being part of a team and a family, his own family, but also found family when it comes to the circus.

So I think how he relates to relationships and sees everyone around him as a part of his team and then taking on that leadership role and being a Batman who doesn't, who's not afraid to smile, I think, I think that's why I'm choosing Nightwing. When I was a kid and Batman and Robin, I always, I always liked Robin because maybe he's a little bit younger and relatable.

I always just, I've loved it always. I've liked Robin and when he's become Nightwing, I love it. And so Tom Taylor's run really kind of solidified for me. His running.

If you're looking for. We'll do recommendations later. But a good run on Nightwing and who he is and his character and what he, how he postures himself in the world.

That's a good way to a good, a good thing to read and find and to discover who Nightwing really is. So that's, that's what I'd be.

And as an acrobat, someone who's flexible and nimble and able to kind of roll with the punches and fly through the air and, and keep a smile on his face and maybe say a little kind of Peter Parker esque joke kind of wit all around. I think that's what I want to emulate or be nimble and quick. A little bit more acrobatic in this new year.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:31:23

Another character. It's a crime that we haven't gotten a big screen movie adaptation of like he also Nightwing has been, was featured in Titans in Live Action.

But we should have had a Nightwing movie by now or you know him, you know, I think we'll see that soon enough in the dcu. But it's just, it's wild that in all the Batman movies we've had, we haven't really gotten a proper Nightwing. Right.

Will Rose: 00:31:45

And I like it in comics.

Like if you're reading Batman, you Haven't seen Nightwing in a while, or you're not collecting that comic book, and all of a sudden, like, Batman sent in a tight situation or something happens, and then Dick Grayson rolls up in his cool Nightwing costume, and you're just like, oh, there he is. You know, you just kind of look up to him. You know how much Batman. Bruce Wayne, loves Dick Grayson.

When he shows up or even puts on the mandal as Batman, it's just. It's just the best. So love it. Love it. All right, that's my number three. So. All right, here we are. Number two.

Andy, I don't know if you had anything about Nightwing or any. Any thoughts there on him or.

Andy Walsh: 00:32:20

Well, I think we'll just segue into my number two, who happens to be closely related, and that is the Batman himself.

Will Rose: 00:32:29

All right, there you go. Cool, cool, cool.

Andy Walsh: 00:32:32

Yeah.

As I mentioned, that was one of my earliest introductions to superheroes was Batman as played by Adam west and then the superheroes cartoon and his appearances on Scooby Doo and things like that. So there was just a lot of Batman growing up.

And then over time, I found the more recent emphasis in Batman, one of his things, his superpower, is basically planning ahead, right? Because he can't compete with Superman and Wonder Woman and all these different folks in terms of power, strength, those kinds of things.

Super abilities. He's just a guy. An incredibly rich, incredibly traumatized guy, but still just a guy.

And so what is his thing that makes him stand out next to all these other characters? And that is his ability to plan and think ahead.

And while I will not at all claim to be a strategist or planner at the level of Bruce Wayne or a prepper at the level of Bruce Wayne, I do not have stashes of weapons all over Pittsburgh. Or.

Will Rose: 00:33:40

Kryptonite in your pocket. In your pocket.

Andy Walsh: 00:33:42

I don't have kryptonite just in case. But I do do drive my wife crazy with the level to which I think about different scenarios and try to prepare for different scenarios, whatever.

And it took me a long time to realize that most people think about what they think is the most likely scenario and just kind of go for that. Whereas I try to think of a lot of different scenarios. And so I'll talk about things they'll be like, but that's not very likely.

Why are you so pessimistic or whatever? You think that that's what's going to happen? No, I don't think that that's going to happen. If you have asked me what's the most likely outcome?

I. I agree with you without nap, but you got to prepare for all the other ones too.

And it took me a while to realize that not everybody does that and why it would cause these communication conflicts because I was talking about a scenario and everybody else assumed that I was talking about something, as if I thought that that was what was going to happen. So anyway, yeah, so that is an aspect of Batman that I can relate to on some smaller scale.

Plus I've always been a fan of detective stories, Sherlock Holmes and all that. And so I really like the detective aspect of Batman as well.

And that obviously relates to scientific investigation, problem solving and that kind of thing. So those are the features of Batman that I appreciate.

Again, obviously a complex character who has some things that should not be emulated necessarily. But the forethought of Batman is something that I think is worth nice looking up to.

Will Rose: 00:35:09

Yeah, he, he originated in Detective Comics number 27. And so that's where DC gets his name from, is Detective Comics.

He's the legendary, the best at what he does when it comes to tech of work and solving crimes. He's a living weapon. He's a ninja, he's got the gadgets, he's got money.

be prepared moving forward in: 2026

Love that pick. Kevin. All right, number two, what you got?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:35:47

So. Well, first off, Andy, I want to say, I mean, you are developing a control room of your own.

So I'm not gonna like say you don't have a Batmobile hidden somewhere there in a bat cave. So I. We'll see how. Yeah, I don't know if you're being honest there, but, but so my number two pick.

So going back to the cartoons I was watching as a kid, when I was watching Spider man, the Animated Series, I mean, of course I always loved that character. I mean, who doesn't? But I remember this.

Or a couple, a two parter episode when he's going up against Kingpin, against this guy who is in a red suit, but he doesn't have any powers, he's also blind. And I was like, whoa, who is this guy? And that was my introduction to Daredevil, who for those of you don't know, is my favorite Marvel character.

I mean, of course I love Spidey, but. But Daredevil was always just like instantly grabbed my attention.

And while I was not reading the Frank Miller comics when I was a kid, I did get a hold of those later on, but particularly when the Netflix series dropped. I mean, that was like, perfect time for me. I was in college and I consumed that I was. They act. They let me write about it for my student newspaper.

So that was fun. And then, you know, I mean, I. I had seen the Ben Affleck movie when I like, I think when I was maybe in like middle or school or something.

But we don't talk about that. That's a. That's a thing that exists.

Will Rose: 00:37:18

I want to go back and rewatch that. I gotta go find that one one. It's been so long. I need to do.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:37:22

The thing about. The thing about that movie with.

Without doing much of a side rant is like, there's a good movie in there, but it tries to cram a season's worth of storytelling into one movie. Like you. If they. If they had cut out, like one character, it might be.

But they try to do Electra, Bullseye, Kingpin, Daredevil, origin, all in one movie, and it did not work at all. But anyway, yeah, Daredevil was just a character who instantly captivated me first. I mean, I say as a disabled person.

I mean, I've written about disability in comics many times. And, you know, Daredevil is a blind superhero, and his blindness, in a way gives him an advantage because his other senses become heightened. So. And.

And, you know, and for me, I mean, it's not a direct parallel to my story because I did not have an accident that made me disabled like Matt Murdock did. I was. You know, I've had my disability since I was born, so it's a different experience.

But at the same time, it was cool to see not only a disabled character in, you know, a big comic, but to be the front and center superhero. So I always just, you know, I love the story. I love this idea of, you know, many ways like Batman, you know, he has this tragedy befalls him.

His father is murdered and, you know, he goes off to train with a borderline psychopath and becomes a ninja, comes back to fight crime. But he also has, you know, this like. Well, what I like most is he has a lawyer job by day where he's trying to actually do good there as well.

He doesn't want to be caught. He. He knows there's corruption all around in Hell's Kitchen.

And not only does he want to, you know, beat up criminals and, and fight for justice there. But he's also bringing justice with his day job. He doesn't want to be the corrupt lawyer.

He wants to help the people around him and look out for the little guy. And so that's something I try to emulate.

I mean, you know, they're working especially with him, where he works in a system that is, is inherently corrupt, but he's trying to do everything in his power and utilize his resources to make the lives of people around him better.

And that's something I always loved about Matt Murdock and, and you know, the, one of the coolest con experiences I ever had was meeting Charlie Cox a couple years ago at awesome Con. Nicest guy. It was not disappointing at all. And that, you know, know, talk about just like match made in Heaven in terms of casting.

I was so glad they brought him back for the mcu. It just, you know, fantastic incarnation there. So. I love the show, I love the comics, Man Without Fear.

But also, you know, one of the things that I love about Daredevil is that there are not necessarily different like incarnations of him, but like, it's not all gritty noir stories. The Mark Waid run, which I read really throughout college knowledge, is fantastic and much more nuanced and light hearted in a way.

Like, it allows Daredevil to have a little more fun there and not be. Not that there isn't dark stuff that happens in that run either, but it just shows that his life doesn't have to be miserable.

You know, you could add levity as well. So I just, you know, and there's not really.

Even with some of the most iconic superheroes, comic book characters, there are bad runs that feature this character, bad storylines. It's hard to find a bad era of Daredevil certain, like in the comics and in the show too.

I mean, it has its ups and downs certainly, but it's still pretty consistently good throughout. And yeah, I mean it's, it's just one of my all time favorite characters.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, and, and that's what I try to emulate it with him is, and while of course I can't, can't not mention that he's also a person of faith and that's something that continually guides him as Catholic origins and, and not that he is like extremely devout or anything, but, but it's always a huge part of him and, you know, a reason for why, you know, he takes up the mantle of Daredevil. But yeah, I think I try to emulate his desire for justice, not just in terms of.

Of putting bad guys behind bars, but looking out for the little guy trying to make the world around him better and safer for everyone.

Will Rose: 00:41:57

Love it.

And yeah, they play on that Marvel putting out characters that are relatable or that aren't perfect, that are wrestling with life like everybody else in the world. And him being a lawyer and blind justice and is justice blind? All that kind of play on words. But I noticed a theme here, Andy, didn't you say that.

Did Mark Waid write the Age of Ultron AI Is that what you said?

Andy Walsh: 00:42:22

I did and he did.

Will Rose: 00:42:24

Oh, man. And then, you know, here you say Mark Wade's version of Daredevil. And that leads in to my number two.

You know who I really like is I have to go with the OG Action comics number one. I got to go with Superman.

And Mark Wade's take on Superman really is the one that kind of always brings it back home, whether it's in kingdom come or what's going on today.

And him being brought back into the fold of D.C. and kind of directing all most of its line in comics can see why it's really thriving right now as a business and kind of its headliner heroes. And so I'm going Superman, he's. He's the original one.

He was the super friends as a kid, you know, seeing the movie and seeing the cartoons and reading. I loved reading his comics because, you know, what kid doesn't want to fly and. And have all the superpowers.

But when you boil down to it's not just him having a bunch of superpowers, different kind of. He is, you know, the elite and most powerful superhuman that's out there, but that is also his and how he sees the world and how he sees others.

And this movie, we just saw the whole argument of what makes him. He's not an alien or he is alien, but what makes him more human is how he cares and sees other people.

And Lois telling him is like, yeah, you see the good in people. And yeah, that's punk rock. So all that is really good, the resurgence of Superman with the newest movie and what's going on in DC Comics right now.

And dcko, I'm just loving what's happening with Superman. And I gotta pick up number two. So as a Marvel guy, guy who grew up on Marvel, pick a Nightwing, then Superman. Yeah, there you go. But.

But yeah, his optimism. Yeah, yeah, he always has hope. He sees the good in the other.

But his, his optimism is what drives him to keep doing what's good in the world no matter what. So that's what I'm going to emulate here in the new year.

Andy Walsh: 00:44:13

Is.

Will Rose: 00:44:13

Is. Or try really hard, man. It's really hard these days to be optimistic.

But, man, if you have icons and movies and comic books of Superman, shine a light in the iconography of. Of what emulates, I'm gonna strive to be that. So there you go, guys. I know your thoughts on Superman, Super Friends, all that too.

I don't know what your number one is, but. Yeah, also.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:44:38

Well, I think I. I mentioned this when we interviewed Robert Banditti a couple weeks ago, but I was watching an. I was watching an interview with Mark Wade, and he said that when he was a kid, he.

He was going through a really rough time and he went and saw this Christopher Reeve Superman movie. And he said from when he left the theater, he said, I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with my life, but I know it has to involve Superman.

Like, that's how much the character.

Will Rose: 00:45:05

So good. And that was such a fun interview with. With Daddy and his work on Superman 78 was. Is really good. So going back to. That was a fun conversation. Yeah.

Superman.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:45:16

There you go.

Will Rose: 00:45:16

Even. Even Robert, who is Rob, was saying that he was a big Superman guy, but, I mean, it wasn' Comic book guy, but he loves. There you go. The icon that.

That is. All right, here we go. Number one, folks. We're going around. I know you out there. Can't wait to hear who we're going to choose.

I bet you can't guess, Andy, who's your number one?

Andy Walsh: 00:45:37

Yeah, there's no way of knowing if you've ever heard me talk about comic books ever before. And if we were talking about most aspirational characters, Superman certainly in contention there, if not the number one.

Christopher Reeve, the Superman movie. Yes. A huge part of my childhood. That John Williams theme is still, you know, that is what heroism sounds like.

But, you know, if I'm picking the character that I most relate to in comic books since I was about 12, that has been Jamie Madrock's, the multiple man introduced to him. Peter David's X Factor relaunch. I mentioned before and really at that time connected with a character who I liked, his sense of humor.

But also, as we explored in the issues that unfolded, a character uses his humor to deflect kind of some of the loneliness and some of the outsider feelings that he's experiencing. And that was something that I connected with as a kid.

ter David brought him back in: 2005

It was, I think, with the Madrox miniseries and then a long run on X Factor, the X Factor Investigations era, even though the book is just called X Factor.

And yeah, just he was back as a more layered character who was struggling with the fact that he could see all kinds of perspectives on different questions and didn't know how to choose because he appreciated all these different points of view.

And as a young adult, that was something that I really related to at that time was how do you figure out life when you can understand or you can see so many different ways of approaching it and see the value in them? Not just understanding that there are these different approaches, but seeing that there's value in them as well and having to make choices.

And so that was a big book in those kind of formative young adult years, going through. Through some of the same experiences of becoming an adult and becoming a parent and all these different things.

And didn't have all the same experiences. But that was kind of a fellow traveler in a lot of ways for me.

I think if I had to sum it up in what's an attribute that I would want to emulate, I think it would be empathy.

The indecision is the curse that comes with it, but the value that comes with being able to see all those different perspectives is being empathized with different people. And I think that is especially highlighted.

So part of the aspect of that second X Factor Investigations run is that Jamie Madrock sends out different versions of himself for extended periods of time instead of just kind of instantaneously creating more of himself to win a fight or something like that, that he creates long term copies of himself to go out and study different disciplines. And so they learn science and ninja skills, kind of a Batman thing. But in parallel, right.

He goes out and learns all these different skills and one of them goes out and becomes a priest, an Episcopal minister, if I am not mistaken, in New England. So not a priest. So Reverend John Maddox is the name that he takes not instead of Badrox to differentiate a little bit bit.

And he becomes kind of a recurring character in the book.

And that sense of empathy, I think is most strongly written in some of his appearances and his interactions, particularly with Wolfsbane Ray and Sinclair, but also some of the other characters as well. Yeah. So to sum it up, I would say that the empathy of Jamie Madrox is what I Would want to emulate it in the coming year.

Will Rose: 00:49:29

Nice.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:49:30

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:49:30

And that, you know, and all of us are busy.

All of us wish we could split ourselves off into different people to do different tasks and, you know, I wish there were, you know, I don't know if the world wants it, but 10 different wheel roses out there running around and then be able to absorb myself back into myself and have their knowledge of things, even though they're autonomous, can do their own decisions, is. It's just an interesting, interesting character. And that's, that's Andy's avatar.

That's his icon and in our, in our systemic ecology, icon of all of us standing up there.

Andy Walsh: 00:50:00

So.

Will Rose: 00:50:00

So yeah, I had that one written down even before Andy said it. He could have surprised me, but. But I. I kind of knew what was going down there. I love it. Cool. Good pick, Andy. Love it. Love it.

Makes me want to go back and reread those X Factor stories for sure. Kevin. All right, drum roll. Here we are. Number one, what you choosing what you got?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:50:18

Similar to Andy. I mean, anyone who has ever listened to a podcast with me is particular. This one knows that Batman is my favorite fictional character of all time.

Time. So this was pretty easy. But yeah, I mean, you know, Andy, I know this was your number two.

Obviously there's, you know, a lot to say about the character. No one needs to describe Batman's pop culture impact.

But for me, again, it started with the Animated series that was formative to my geekdom, much like Star wars and Lord of the Rings and everyone, everything else. And there were so many things I loved about, about that series and particularly the way it portrayed the character.

Because there are different versions of Batman and there are ones that are you certainly, I don't think want to emulate. I mean, Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns guy is not a, you know, really a empathetic or idealistic Batman.

It's a much more darker, vengeance fueled, violent, borderline psychopath depiction of the character. And it's specifically set in a, in its own universe really, as it's. As an elseworlds tale.

So I don't like when people think like that as their immediate personification of Batman with the Animated Series and with, you know, even the Nolan trilogy and a lot of the comics, particularly like the Scott Snyder era, stuff like that, but particularly in the Animated Series series.

Going back to what I said about Daredevil, how he is not only wanting to, you know, take down criminals and evildoers, but he's also trying to do the best with what he can do as Matt Murdock, that version of Batman is trying to do what the best he can as Bruce Wayne as well. Yes, he's a billionaire and yes, he, you know, puts it like a mask and a Persona on the, on him himself so that people don't suspect he's Batman.

But you see him try to utilize the resources he has with Wayne Enterprises to benefit, you know, struggling communities and get mental health support for, you know, even a lot of the people he puts behind bars.

Obviously not for like Joker, but, but for some of the other villains that are more empathetic, he wants to help them out, he doesn't want to just punish them. And so that's one thing that I think a lot of people neglect about Batman.

And they think that, oh, he's just a rage fueled guy who never got over his childhood trauma. I think the opposite is true.

I think his childhood trauma is what compelled him to do what he does and to, you know, try to make the world a better place.

And I think realistically, in a world where it wasn't relying on comic continuity and, you know, keeping these stories going on forever, I really think that, you know, we might have a story where Batman does fight, he does, you know, and he actually does make the world a better place. But, you know, it's comics. You have to keep it going forever.

And that's the main reason why we're always going to find ways to make Gotham darker and darker and give more villains and more problems to deal with.

But you know, the, no, like the Nolan trilogy exemplifies like, you know, he has an arc and there is world where he can stop being Batman and he can, you know, like move on and, and, and actually accomplish the world that he sought out that he wanted to build.

So, you know, there's that aspect of the character and then, and then for me personally, I mean, I've always joked with caregivers that, oh, they're like my Alfred. I always love sad about the character.

I love, I love that, that he is one of the most iconic characters in comics and in pop culture and he doesn't have any superpowers. Yes, he has infinitely more resources than you, me, Andy.

But as much as we would love to have our own Batmobile and all the resources that Bruce Wayne has, we can still make a difference. And that's, I think, what you can glean that most from the world of Bruce Wayne and Batman.

And also, you know, here's a guy who was lonely for so long, but he also found his Chosen family. With Alfred, with Robin, with Batgirl, you know, the whole Bat family. Lucius Fox. And so I love the evolution of the character.

I have some of my favorite stories all time there. So, yeah, there's just, you know, it's a little obvious for me, but. But yeah, that. That it has to be my number one.

Will Rose: 00:54:52

Like it. And. And the fact that he's always trying to do the best he can and he. And his.

And he, you know, believes and strives that he knows that if he doesn't, people will suffer if he doesn't give his best all the time. And so giving his best and. And providing what he can for the world with the resources he has and what he's trained for.

Andy Walsh: 00:55:12

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:55:13

To be the best you can be is good. And find the found family, too. I do like it when there's, like, the team book ends up being the Bat family together.

The Robins, Batgirl, Batwoman, him, Clayface, you know, coming together as a team. That was kind of a cool X Men, kind of Justice League kind of team, except. Which is the Bat.

V is always kind of fun to see how they work together as a family. I love it. Good. Good stuff. All right, here comes my number one, and. Yeah, mine is Peacemaker. Just kidding. Just. Okay, it's not. It's not.

It's not Peacemaker. I'm gonna cheat here. I'm cheating. And I'm just gon. The X Men. Okay. I know it's plural. I know as hard. And he's shaking his head.

Kevin's like, oh, my gosh, he's cheating. But I cannot pick one X Man as like my. I just. The team and what they represent of these mutants who are oppressed, who always look down upon.

And yet they strive and wrestle with how to defend humankind and to work for justice and to emulate doing the best they can to defend and stand up for justice in the world for those. So. So yeah, I could. Colossus, Nightcrawler, Storm. Yes, all of it. And you know what? You know, you can come at me in the comments. Yeah, you're.

You're breaking the rules. You're breaking. Our whole bracket is busted. You know, because he picked all the X Men, but I. It's not all of them. It's just as a team, as an entity.

I love team books. That's my icon. I gravitate to our adventures and Justice League and when Batman's written as a Bat family team book. Yeah. The X Men, that's.

I'm gravitated toward those team books because like see the dynamics and how they work together as a team. So that, that's, that's who I'm picking. I know. Come at, come at me, Andy. I know you're shaking your head. Am I. Am I sinning? Sinning terribly for this.

Andy Walsh: 00:57:01

Well, I think our Daredevil fan can talk to you about. You can take your confession.

Will Rose: 00:57:09

Yes.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:57:10

Oh, that's good. I'm ready.

Will Rose: 00:57:11

I'm ready for confession. I'm ready.

Kevin Schaefer: 00:57:14

Yeah.

Will Rose: 00:57:14

And yeah, they're: 1963

They were, they were founded in the time we're coming off recording this near Martin Luther King Day and you kind of racial justice and standing for segregation and the oppressed. And you know, they, the original team didn't have an adjective just yet.

They were just at the top of the banner it said the strangest superheroes of all. And yeah, who hasn't felt strange or are different when.

When they're going through puberty or trying to find themselves or becoming a teenager and trying to seek to themselves in the world or what comic book geek hasn't felt like they were the nerd, the geek that were looked down upon as not being cool. So. So yeah, the X Men is trying to strive to.

Not necessarily to be mainstream, but to be accepted for who they are, the way they are born and, and what they can help or can't help or how they act. For that. I think, I think that's the way we're going to emulate. I think the kind of they have together as a team doesn't mean there aren't drama.

Some people that don't turn. Turn from good to bad or, or wander from their ways or go with Magneto or Professor X and you know, happens all the time in the, in those books.

But kind of the solidarity they have with one another in their team and with humankind as a whole. Not just mutant kind, but humankind. That's why we're emulate.

emulate as we get deeper into: 2026

You have our, our top three. And you know, we were thinking deeper on these things. You kind of hear what we like to emulate. We want to be. But.

But if you are going to make a. I like this exercise.

I don't know if you guys have done it or thought through it, but in terms of listing the characters and the list of the traits that you want to emulate over the year in one sentence. How do we do that? Andy, you ready? Can you emulate. Can you put that all in one sentence, your characters?

Andy Walsh: 00:59:28

Yeah, I think so. You can tell me if I'm doing it right, but, yeah, I'm ready. I would like to emulate the curiosity of Hank. Picture him.

The forethought of Batman and the empathy of multiple man. Nice.

Will Rose: 00:59:40

I love it. Yep, you did it right. Not like me picking all X Men for my icon character. Kevin. Kevin, what's your. What's your. How do you.

How do you wrap it up into one nice little tweetable phrase?

Kevin Schaefer: 00:59:53

I. I had to do a little, like, creativity here, but I. I said I want to have the fearlessness of Raven, the bank account of Batman, because who doesn't? And also, sorry I had to do this pun. Daredevil's vision for the future.

Will Rose: 01:00:09

Ah, I love it. Fantastic. Cool. Cool.

Yeah, for me, I said, this year, I hope to be as nimble as Nightwing, as optimistic as Superman, and in solidarity with my fellow teammates and humankind. Like the X Men. Yeah, I think we did really well there.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:00:28

There.

Will Rose: 01:00:28

I love it. I can hear them. I can hear the crowds cheer in the distance.

Andy Walsh: 01:00:34

So.

Will Rose: 01:00:35

Yeah. All right. So. So honorable mentions. You know, there's so many characters to choose from. What are.

What are some characters you almost chose or had a hard time not making the list if you made top five or top ten. What Peacemaker did not make mine, although I do love that series. And there's a lot. Large character growth there. What are some honorable mentions?

Kevin, you wanted to share some What. What do you have that.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:00:56

I had several. So Beast is my favorite X Men. I love Hank McCoy. So that was a runner up. Also Cyborg, another great character who also disabled.

And, you know, I love how he went from a Teen Titan to member of the Justice League. And then what else do they have here? I mean, of course Spider man, because, you know, and then Oracle, Sl. Barbara Gordon.

Will Rose: 01:01:23

Yeah.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:01:24

And then. Yeah. And then lastly, I.

So to be fair, will I almost consider breaking the rules and just putting Superman and Batman as my number one and make it a tie. But it was. It was hard because for all the reasons we thought.

I mean, you know, I have also done big, you know, essays on Superman and why I love the character. So it was very. Not hard, like, to pick between there. So it's close. Number two there.

Will Rose: 01:01:50

Yeah. I'm looking at our list. We have 1, 2, 3, just counting X Men as 1, 4. Marvel. And then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Yeah, DC kind of wins here in terms of Marvel versus DC. Nobody picked in some indie comics, but that's all right. We'll talk about honorable mentions. Yeah.

Andy, who are some of your honorable mentions out there?

Andy Walsh: 01:02:14

Yeah, so I had a feeling this would skew guy heavy. Just from the history of comic books and our own personality and demographics, so forth.

So I was trying to think of women who share some of the same characteristics as the characters that I picked out. So for Hank Pym, close by was Nadia Pym, his long lost daughter who only recently appeared as another version of the Wasp. I forget which was it?

The unstoppable Wasp. I forget what adjective they gave to her book, but she had it.

Will Rose: 01:02:45

Unstoppable. Yeah, he's a local guy here in North Carolina. Guy who wrote. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:02:50

Jeremy Whaley. Yeah.

Will Rose: 01:02:51

Yep.

Andy Walsh: 01:02:52

So, yeah, So I. Maybe if she's had some more time to develop, we'd get more, you know, maybe she would have made the list overhangpin.

But yeah, definitely another science enthusiast character there. For Batman, I went with Lois Lane as somebody else who shares his investigative tenacity. Nice commitment to the truth and fearlessness as well. Right.

Lois Lane goes where the story needs her to go, regardless of her personal danger. Being married to Superman and knowing that he will have your back. But still she has a level of fearlessness and tenacity in investigation.

And then with Ms. Marvel. Kamala Khan. For somebody who wrestles with different perspectives, a big part of her book is about the different worlds that she's trying to inhabit.

Her family, the more conservative religion that she has grown up with and still adheres to, and the superhero world and modern American pop culture and all these different worlds that she's trying to live in and how to balance all that. And so, yeah, it's not exactly the same. She doesn't have the same power as multiple men, but there's a similar element there. And also just the.

That trying to balance faith and engagement with the world and pop culture and fandom is something that she emulates as well, even if it's a different religious tradition than my own. So those are my picks.

Will Rose: 01:04:27

Nice. I love that. And her kind of flexibility, shape shifting, being flexible and all that too. I like her power set. I really like it. Yeah, Great character.

Yeah. Mine, because I have some friends out there that I podcast about Thor and I read a lot of Thor and been getting to him more lately. Last couple years.

Thor's up there he's kind of the, the Superman of the Marvel Universe. At least he was at the beginning of his origins.

But, but that those runs of like what makes a God or someone worthy or not and whether to pick up the hammer or. Or not what makes someone that is it just because how strong you are or how you treat your neighbor or how you see the other person.

I love those characteristics. As a bald lifelong surfer, you would think that also the Silver Surfer would be one that I really like.

I do like space and cosmology and, and outer space and the stars. To be able to get a cosmic surfboard, hop on it and ride the galactic waves would be super fun. I haven't found.

There's some good story arcs about him, but in terms of an ongoing series, he's a little too mopey for me and, and introspective and kind of really gets in his thoughts because you know, where else you going to think about when you're alone out in space, you know. But I like that aspect of surfing. Sitting out in the water and being alone with my thoughts and waiting for the next wave.

There's a, there's a lot that come where you sit with your own thoughts. So Silver Surfer in space waiting for the next wave is fun. And then I, I thought of Scott Pilgrim. I really like that movie.

I like those graphic novels. Scott Pilgrim as someone who's really trying to find his way and his character arc of, of trying to find, you know, the L word.

Love I'm talking about love is. It is great. And sometimes he gets an extra coin where Scott Pilgrim earns self respect or gets an extra life. I, I just love that movie so much.

And, and that was those little digest graphic novels that as soon as I finished one I'd run to the comic stor next one because I just had so much fun with it. So Scott Pilgrim's out there for, for me as well.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:06:24

Well, I have to laugh because when Andy and I did the indie comic episode, we were talking about like how a lot of the character, A lot of stories in indie comics we love but not maybe as many relatable characters. And Scott Pilber was one where I said, yeah, if people say they relate to this character, I'm a little concerned.

So I love, I love the, I love the, the movie and I love the books. But also he is not meant to be a like necessarily a character you want to emulate.

Andy Walsh: 01:06:54

So I just love.

Will Rose: 01:06:55

Right, right.

But there the end, you know, when he gets that extra coin of he finds self respect it just, it's just the character arc and the, the hero's journey that he's on is, is, is pretty, is pretty fun that even he can, can grow as a person and understand the other person.

Kevin Schaefer: 01:07:12

That's true. That's show.

Will Rose: 01:07:14

I love it. Cool. All right, y', all, thanks for, for this and you know, it's time to wrap up this episode.

And when we do that, we do want to remind you that you can hop over on our our website in the job description on fourth wall and there's going to be an extra question. The if, if you become a member or leave a tip or just for free, join and become a member.

Subscribe, you too can get free content and extra, extra content with an extra question.

So our question today is I'm asking my fellow geekologists, if you were to team up with your three icons that you listed today, what would be the name of your team? Or maybe across that comic book at the top, what would be the name of your comic or team? How would you label yourself? And that should be pretty fun.

Can't wait to hear what Andy and Kevin have to say. And let me remind you, rate and review. We thank you for our supporters. Amber Riley, you rock. Thank you so much.

And yeah, hope you can come over and join, like subscribe, do all those things and can't wait to see what happens next in this new year and all that we're going to geek out on. Hop over there, listen to the extra question.

And I consider you guys a part of my team when it comes to doing life and doing faith together and using whatever gifts that we have. So, yeah, thank you guys for listening. And remember, the geek in me honors the geek in you.