Binge-Worthy Horror: Exploring Midnight Mass on Netflix

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:01:10

Foreign. Have you ever mistaken a vampire for an angel? This is systematic ecology. We are the priest to the geeks.

I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schaefer, here with Christian Ashley and Laura Whitman. Laura, I know this is the first time recording with you and I've gotten to record with you. So very excited to do this one with you. Yeah.

Well, for our listeners out there, this is part of our Flight Flicks Friday spring bonus series in which we are looking at bingeable Netflix movies and shows and kind of talking about what they mean to us, why they're bingeable, and kind of getting into some of the deeper themes. So today I'm very excited because we are talking about Midnight Mass, which I will talk about in just a minute here.

But if you want to follow the rest of the series, click on the show Notes. For this episode, we'll will have the playlist of the entire series, what you can, which you can check out. So please check those out.

And yeah, Christian, Laura, I'm really glad to have y'all today. So, yeah, let's go ahead and get into it.

Talking about Midnight Mass, which is a Mike Flanagan horror series that premiered on Netflix a few years ago.

Christian, I know you and I have talked about a lot about Mike Flanagan before, but, Laura, I want to get into what's kind of your background with the whole, like, Flanagan universe and with Midnight Mass specifically.

Christian Ashley: 00:02:39

Well, everything that's been on Netflix of his I've watched and loved. And so the only one that I didn't watch yet is Follow the House of Usher, which I realize is heresy and I need to watch that.

But yeah, everything else, like, my husband and I have always watched those shows together. We love the way they're put together, the suspense, the, you know, horror without being too, like, gory and over the top.

But they, they just, he tells good stories. So, yeah, I'm a fan.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:03:05

I say when you do get the House of Usher, we did an episode on that, so you can go back and watch that afterwards. But it is an excellent.

I mean, it's hard kind of ranking mine, but like, I know we'll get into more about Midnight musically and why I love this one so much. But this, if it's not my favorite, it's easily the top two or three. But I think this one probably is my favorite of them all.

But he's just an excellent storyteller. I know. For people who haven't listened to our other episodes on House of Fletcher or other Mike Magnet, what's kind of your.

Laura Wittman: 00:03:33

Background as well, yeah, I definitely. My first interaction with him was Oculus. Saw that with some college friends back in the day.

Then I think we also saw the Ouija movie that he made that was. I think it was a sequel to the original.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:03:50

Yes.

Laura Wittman: 00:03:50

And I happened to see the Haunting of Hill House being like, on Netflix. Being like, oh, okay. I like the original story and stuff. Other movies they've done with this. Watched this great show.

Blind Manor was not as good, but okay. Then Midnight Mass came out, and I'm like, okay, I believe in everything this man's accomplishing. Let me continue on with him.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:04:10

It's exciting. I mean, I'm really excited we picked. I think this. I think it was. You recommended this one for this series and probably several others.

So I jumped on the chance because I was like, oh, I've got to talk about this one in depth. But yeah, no, I got similar as y'all. Like, I. I remember watching his first one and by also Bly Manor, I didn't love as well as much, but.

But then, like, Midnight Mask came along and I love how Silvester love this movie. And doctor Sleep is another one that he's done. That was incredible.

Talking about how you do a shining sequel that is, like, resonates with Stephen King is really impressive.

Christian Ashley: 00:04:51

But.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:04:52

But, yeah, my plan again is, I mean, easily, I think, one of the best filmmakers working today. And as a quick side note, he has written a Clayface movie, which DC has an active development that I cannot wait for.

So that will be definitely talking about in the future. But, yeah, so just a little bit about what Midnight Mass is. Christian, do you want to give just a brief plot summary?

You don't have to go into the whole thing, but just so we get an idea of what this show is about and then we can talk about what our initial reactions were the first time we saw it.

Laura Wittman: 00:05:21

Yeah. So basically this kind of takes place on this island. I think we're in New England, if I remember correctly.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:05:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:05:30

It's been a while since I've seen the show. I watched it at release and I have not watched it since. But our main.

Well, what seems to be our main character, Riley Flynn, has just come back to his hometown there. It's a small fishing village that's just suffering economically.

People are leaving the town, but they've got this really strong Catholic community there where, you know, he reunites with his mother, his father, his brother, his old childhood sweetheart, who's now was with another guy and is expecting a child. And we've got of course, our, you know, if Stephen King was writing this story, Bev Keane, who is our religious zealot of the show.

But the community is wondering what has happened to their priest who has gone off to a visit to the Holy Land and suddenly caught ill. And now there's this new hot young priest coming in, Paul Hill, who has said that he's taking over for Monsignor Pruitt.

And through the midst of this, we kind of get into, like, the backstories of the people in town, like, what makes them tick. We've got, you know, an Islamic sheriff as well, who's kind of an outsider in the town, and his son now, he, his son interacts with the kids in town.

We've got a young girl. Oh, gosh, what's her name? Lisa. Yeah, Lisa. Who has been paralyzed as a result of the action of one of the drunken members of the community.

And somehow after taking the Eucharist, or even before then, if I remember correctly, she starts to stand and all these miracles are happening around town. How is this possible? What's going on? And we find out there's some less than good reasons for why these miracles are happening.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:07:08

Yes, Christian, for as much media as you consume. And you said you only watch the series all the way through once. Like, that was a pretty spot on description. I'm impressed.

Laura Wittman: 00:07:18

That's what Wikipedia is for.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:07:20

Hey. But still, even being able to like, and summarize that, like, in your own words, still, like, I love it, but yeah, but no, that was great.

So thinking back to when the show first premiered and what our initial reactions were like, I, I remember watching it like in one week or weekend. Laura, what was your kind of initial reaction? I know you had also seen the other Flanagan shows, but what was your reaction to this one?

Christian Ashley: 00:07:44

So this was instantly my favorite and I think is still maybe aside from Stranger Things, my favorite thing that has ever come out on Netflix.

And there are a lot of things that I loved about it, but I think the reason it hooked me is being a pastor myself and seeing how they liturgically got things right in the show, down to liturgical colors and the way they went through the season of Lent.

For me, I always struggle with any sort of like, religious oriented show if it doesn't do religion properly and, and it, it did, minus the whole like communion being, you know, leading to vampires thing. But, you know, it's, it, it like they use this image of the blood of Christ in a very creative way that still maintained liturgical integrity.

And I don't really know any other time that I've seen that. So that was the hook, the other hook for me.

My husband picks on me because I was instantly in love with the sheriff and I've called him hot sheriff for years. And whenever I mentioned hot sheriff, my husband knows exactly who I'm talking about. So that was the other hook for me. If I'm being.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:08:48

Oh, that's that. He's also one of my favorite actors in the show. Like that. Like, but like, yeah, but no, I. Oh no, it was a perfect summary.

Like, I also, I mean, even as myself, like not a minister or anything, but like been around the church for a long time. Like, I really liked it. We'll get into this more when we talk about themes and everything.

But I just like the depiction of everyone where it was like, obviously, like I just said, yes, there's the villainous like zealot who is a horrible person, but there are also like legitimate people of faith here and there's like there. It humanizes everyone really well.

And I just really liked how it explored these themes in a way that was respectful and also just a really captivating storytelling. So. Yeah, but yeah, Christian, what about you?

Laura Wittman: 00:09:34

Sorry, can you repeat the question again?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:09:35

No, just like your initial reactions when you first saw the show.

Laura Wittman: 00:09:38

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I swiftly fell in love with this show. Just, I was just one of those things I saw to come out say, okay, I'll try it out.

And one episode in I was hooked. It's like, okay, we've got a nice.

I was getting a lot of like storm of the century kind of vibes here as like another city that's on an island, you know, away from everyone else when some mystery is happening here and you know, obviously Flanagan's a huge king guy, so I just couldn't help but notice the parallels there. And getting to know our cast here, we've got a great cast of characters, people you love to hate. You got people you really want to succeed.

You've got noble sacrifices here. That caught me completely by surprise in a really good way. One of the most fitting sacrifices on television I've ever seen.

One of the most well shot ones too. I really enjoy this series.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:10:29

It's just brilliant all around. I mean, I like, I know that this was Mike Flanagan's passion project that he had been trying to make for years and years. And you can tell it shows.

I mean, like I said, Huntingville House is great. I with that show. I think I like the family dynamics the most. Like, I mean, I'm the youngest of three and I.

And, like, now that, like, my siblings and I are adults, like, I just.

Not that we're dysfunctional, but I just saw, like, a lot of the, like, really honest sibling dynamics play out in that series that juxtaposed with the ghost story really well. And it was cool. And then the blind editor didn't resonate with me as much as the others, but it was still really well told.

But I think with Midnight Mass, there was so much to relate to. Like, again, growing up in the church having just that all the supernatural stuff that made it really intriguing.

But at the core, like you said, both. He said that the characters were just so intriguing.

Like, yes, they're the, like, hardcore villains, but all everyone else, like, in this community you become so invested in, whether it's this main guy who has to come back years later as, like, initially set up as like, a prodigal son type story, but. And he has all his inner demons he's wrestling with.

And he was, you know, I mean, jump driver and, like, caused the death of someone and has to reconcile with that and. But even then, like, you feel for him there, you know. Oh, I thought it's a bold move to just suck you in that way.

And then, like, he said he has his childhood sweetheart who is back in the town now. And I really love her story. I love the sheriff. I love, like, all these other characters that come into it. Just the dynamics of a small town.

The obviously the supernatural history. And then I think. I mean, one of the most. Even though, like, Keen is obviously a pretty, like, villain you just love to hate.

But then with the main Priest is one of the most complex antagonists in the series that I. I mean, part of it is I love. Was it. I'm gonna look up the actor's name. Is that because I.

He also voiced Batman recently, but great actor, but he was a phenomenal performance. And that character just, like, was incredibly immersive because there's. Obviously, we'll get into that later on as we dislike the plot a little more.

But that was a huge hook for me as well. It just his story and how it coincided with the main protagonist. So a lot to love. But yeah, I mean, I think for all of us, this was an instant hit.

I mean, it was so bingeable. That's okay. So I want to get that next is like, what makes this series specifically so bingeable?

Because I think from my end there are a lot of shows even that I love. For instance, Severance, which is on right now. Like, I don't think That's a real binge able show because it really needs to be dissected.

Episode, episode. I like watching it weekly, but a series like this, I think has that bingeable quality. So what do y'all think about Midnight Mask specifically?

That makes it so much like, you can't turn it off. You have to, like, see it all the way through.

Laura Wittman: 00:13:36

I think this is really bingeable because of, you know, we've got a nice premise here. We've got a nice cast of characters that I want that I'd really care about what happens to them, see them grow, see them regress in certain ways.

And just when the episode ends, I'm like, okay, well, next episode is already here. Thank God.

Let's keep going because now I can continue on this journey because I want to know what happens next after we get our huge reveal of, you know, how Father is able to come the way he is into this world now. He's literally been changed. It's like, okay, I need more. I need more. And guess what? More is right there. So I can just keep going until I'm done.

Christian Ashley: 00:14:13

Yeah, I think for me. And I'll also add, I love severance. Severance is an obsession for me.

And I'm hoping we do an episode down the road on severance, because there's a lot to talk about.

But with this particular show, I think especially being a United Methodist pastor, we move and we're always that random person that shows up in town that's very mysterious, that nobody knows. And so I think there's a part of me that liked seeing that play out. And also, you know, the guy who plays the priest is like, oddly compelling.

I mean, he's first of all just kind of a nice guy. Right? Like, though.

And he shows up to offer communion to this old lady who has, you know, never received or hasn't been able to receive communion because she couldn't go to church because she was in bad health. And then suddenly she's up and her dementia is gone and her Alzheimer's is cured and like, she's younger and it's.

Things start progressing in a very weird way. And I think that's where the binge ability came in for me is those dynamics. I had to know what was going to happen next.

And waiting for the next episode was just not, you know, something I was going to do. So we would finish one and dive right into the next because the story drives itself for sure, 100%.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:15:26

I just put up the cast. Hamish Linklater was Father Paul absolutely Brilliant. And also, Rahul Kakoli is hot sheriff.

Christian Ashley: 00:15:35

So, yeah, hot share.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:15:37

But, yeah, but it's such a brilliant cast. I think that's one of the best thing about Mike Flanagan shows is he knows how to pick cast. But.

But yeah, I mean, I totally agree with both of y'all in terms of how vengeful it is. I think it's just because. And I mean, part of the way it's structured, it leaves each episode on a big cliffhanger. So you can't help but just like.

It's like reading a novel that you're really sucked into. You have to know what's going on happens next. And, um. Yeah, I mean, I've seen the whole series all the way through twice.

Which, I mean, Laura, to your point about like, Stranger Things, like, it's the same thing. It's like there are only a handful of shows like that changer things being one, two where I can rewatch over and over again.

Because even some of, like, really good shows, like, I'll watch and then I goes a long time before I revisit. Whereas Midnight Mass is just a great one to revisit.

And because I watched it when it came out and then I watched it again last year, I think over the course of a few days or a weekend, and it is it just like. Even when. Even then, when, like, I knew it was going to happen, it was still like, I'm so immersed here.

I'm so immersed in the performance and in the storytelling and I just. I have to see not only what happens next, but just to see so many of the visual elements play out. I mean, like, that. That was the.

You talk about the sacrifice, which we'll talk about more in a little bit. That scene is so, so well done from a cinematic standpoint that it is just like, so rewatchable. So. Yeah, absolutely, I think. Absolutely.

Well, I know we're talk. We're kind of like going on. On about what we love about the show is, I guess, is there anything you don't love about it?

I personally cannot really think of. This is one of the, like, few just kind of like, if it's not a 10 out of 10, it's a 9 for me. I trying to think of anything wrong with it.

Christian Ashley: 00:17:23

I think the part where, like, the, like, creature itself is sort of like hovered over people eating. Like, that part was kind of gross for me. But the rest of it, like, I remember the first time I watched, I was like.

Like, they make this a little too real. Like, so that was the Only part. It was just. That part was gross for me. But the rest of it, I. I think it's a fantastic show.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:17:45

Yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:17:46

I'm struggling to think of one. Like, maybe this is more like a personal thing. I wish more people had survived, but that's just the.

The optimist inside of me that wants to see more people do that. Because I think the people who do survive, I'd rather they did. They were part of that crew. But it's like, oh, man, I love these people.

Why can't more of them have made it?

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:18:02

It does break your heart. How many? Like, at the end, I'm like, oh, gosh. Like, but. But like. Yeah, because that. Those final two episodes are. They're brutal. But.

But it is, you know, so that's. I think. Yeah, I think that's fair.

I think if I could say, you know, but at the same time, I don't know that I would change it because I still think it's, like, really succinct in the way the story is told. But I agree. I'm like, oh, I just want all these people to live happily.

Laura Wittman: 00:18:30

I just think it's the difference in approaching, like, writing how you would do it. Like, me, I prefer to have, like, more of a. Of a victory at the end and then other people. It's not about that. And that's fine. And this works. Well.

I'm not against the ending. Go ahead.

Christian Ashley: 00:18:43

No, I think. To point. I think what makes it harder is that there are so many themes of reconciliation and hope in the. The show.

And then you get to the end and, like. Like, there's just this finality, and you're like, well, dang.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:18:57

So, like, I like to think that the ones that do survive at the end, despite everything they go through, I mean, they're kids now. They've seen all this, like, horrible stuff, but it is representing of kind of like a new. Like, they're gonna start a new.

They're getting away from this item because. Going back to. So let's dissect the sacrificial scene. I know that's for the end.

There's a lot of favorite scenes I think we can dissect, but let's look at that one. So, okay, so, yeah, this character played by Zach Guilford, he's a great performance. He played Riley Flynn.

So again, when we meet him at the beginning of the show, he has got. He's done. He is immersed in guilt because years. He had left the town years ago, had gone to do a startup, and, you know, I Forget exactly where.

I don't think California or wherever. But anyway, he goes to start his career. He's doing great. He's making it and being really successful.

And then one night he drinks too much and a tragedy unfolds where he is responsible for being a drug driver that is responsible for killing a young girl there. And that's how the show opens. And then he serves time in prison, and then once he gets out, he comes back home.

So we meet this character at rock bottom and you are wondering, like, oh, my gosh, like, hey, how am I going to like this guy? Because, like, oh, that. It's like you can't imagine being something, you know, more horrible there.

That even though he didn't intend it still, like, he caused. So you meet him at this point. He has a troubled relationship with his family, particularly his father.

And all of these memories of growing up in this town are coming back to him. But he had such a compelling arc, and a lot of it has to do with his relationship with the priest here and those conversations that play out.

Those are some of my favorite scenes. But he ultimately becomes the one who discovers this, like, mass supernatural mystery plot going on in this town.

And at the very end, when he knows that he's going to die, he has to warn his former sweetheart and friend Aaron, played by Pete Seagull, that she needs to get out of there. Because in his last moments, he wants to protect the people that he loves the most. And so he died, and then brutally, as soon as the sun comes up.

Because in. Or the only way he knows he can prove the whole, like. Because he tells this whole supernatural story.

The only way he can make her believe it is if he shows that he's now infected. And when the sun comes up, he burns to death. And it's brutal. But he knows that that's the only way that he can.

He has to make that sacrifice in order that. So she knows exactly what's going on and can act accordingly. So I think it's a brilliant. Let's just dissect that a little bit more. What that.

What did you. What were kind of your impressions of Riley's overall arc and how it ends and culminates with that sacrificial moment.

Laura Wittman: 00:22:09

Yeah, I think he's an extremely well handled character. Like, at the start, we've got this whole, like, coming back to the place he never wanted to return to, place he's avoided for years now.

He's been in prison because of his actions, you know. Yeah, he wasn't in charge when Happening. He murdered a woman while drunk driving. And now he's had to live with that.

Now he's had to come back home, take that humble pie, you know, in this really religious community, while he himself is, like, not. Not militant atheist. He's just an atheist. And he's struggling with his own faith and everything.

And we've got this brand new priest who comes in on the scene and is revitalizing the area. And like, normally it'd be like, yeah, let's keep doing that until he learns the darker side of things where this is someone he already knows.

It's the younger version of someone he already knows because of the. The blessing of the angel, that the. The drinking of the blood is causing all these healings to happen, is causing him to revert to a younger age.

And he wants to give this gift to other people because his mind has been warped by the experience and he's falling into false doctrines.

And now Riley, who is someone who doesn't believe in these doctrines, is going to have to stand up for people who do because he doesn't want them to be taken advantage of. And he doesn't want. Aaron is. Yeah, Aaron is the name of his old sweetheart.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:23:24

Yes.

Laura Wittman: 00:23:24

And he knows, like, I'm going to become the same thing that's going to murder people just like Father Paul has. I don't want to be that man. I've already been that man. I can't do it again. But I also. How am I going to convince her this is real?

He could vamp out on her and turn into a vampire, and that not really help his point. Or he can go out into the middle of the ocean and say, look, here's how vampires rule works. I'm going to spontaneously combust here.

You know who doesn't do that? Regular human people. So here's how you're going to believe.

You losing the person that you care about the most right now so that you can then be emboldened to go save other people. That's such a brilliantly done scene. I wish I'd have thought of it.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:24:00

I know. Oh, and Laura, like, I guess as a minister, can he talk about just like, his faith journey?

Because I think that was some of the most compelling parts for me in the show where, like, the conversations he has with Aaron and with Father Paul, like, what was kind of your takeaways there on that and his whole story arc?

Christian Ashley: 00:24:18

Yeah, I mean, I think there's an honest wrestling that we're seeing throughout the entire show. And what I like about it, though, is that it doesn't really feel like what he's up against is coming from a place of judgment, really.

And I think there's something really pure about that. I mean, he's wrestling, he's growing, he's dealing with all the things that he's dealing with.

And at the same time, even though there's this crazy stuff going on in the background, there's still this hope of, like, redemption for him. And in the end, he gets that. I think that's what's really beautiful.

Like, Christian was talking about that sacrificial thing that he does at the very end of the show. You know, it. He's already had this moment where he's been responsible for someone else's death.

And now in the wrestling, he's got a new understanding of just what repentance and that sacrifice really is about in a way that he didn't have at the very beginning. So I think it's beautifully put together. I think we all, you know, want him to be able to live and walk away unscathed. But that sacrifice is a.

A true, you know, bringing closure to the whole situation where we started with.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:25:25

Absolutely. And, yeah, I. That's. I think what. It's such an honest character where. So it's a really interesting thing that. Yeah.

Because Mike Fan is an atheist, he grew up Catholic, and he's not afraid to explore all of, like, I think, his own doubts and, you know, views on organized vision as a whole, both, like, the positive and negative aspects. And. But I.

One of my favorite scenes, it's not my favorite is that conversation between him and Aaron where they're just talking about their thoughts on the afterlife. What I love about that scene is it never gets into, like, he's a judgmental. And it's never like an argument.

It's two, like, friends who care about each other with opposing views, but they're not trying to argue with each other. They just say, like, this is kind of what I think about what happens when we're no longer here. And neither one is written in a character fashion.

Like, they're fully flexible idea. Like, one is a person of faith. One doesn't believe in an afterlife. And the nuance in that conversation, like, hit me so hard. When I first saw.

I was like, this is, I think, like, validating. Like, this is how we should approach conversations more.

And as they went, too often people like, particularly fiction, it's like either religious figures are written as characters or in. Or if it's like, you know, like, Christian movie kind of thing, it becomes more propaganda. And, like, the non.

Like, people of faith are written as characters, and I hate both sides of that.

So I really like here where they're given depth and characterization and honesty with each other and they're not trying to, like, win the other person over.

Christian Ashley: 00:27:08

Yeah. And in that scene, you know, he gives this beautiful description of, in his mind, what happens when you die. Right.

And he talks about, like, the breaking down of atoms and, like, everything just sort of floats back to creation where it was. And whether you're a person of faith or not, that's still giving honor to creation the way God created it.

So even if you don't believe in an afterlife, there's this beautiful sort of appreciation for the Creator that is offered in that and in creation itself.

So I don't know, the way he describes it is beautiful, and I'm not doing justice to it in this moment, but I remember just being so touched by listening to that and how he described what he thought happened when he died.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:27:47

Absolutely. It's like. I know. I love that. And. Oh, it's worth. Like, I want to try to track down the script for that episode specifically because it is such a.

Like, it's two beautifully written monologues. And same with Aaron.

Like, when she's talking about how she imagines heaven, it's like, it's not fluffy clouds in the sky and, you know, all this, like, cliche imagery. She gives this, like, really beautiful vision of what she sees in the afterlife. And.

Yeah, it's just that scene, I think, is one of the best my Flanagan's ever written. And it's. Well, it's so well acted, too.

And then the same goes for a lot of the conversations he has with the priest there where, like, you were saying, Laura, like, the priest is, like, you know, this kind of cool dude who is really empathetic. And you. I like the conversations between them are like, almost look kind of like therapy sessions and stuff. And, like.

And there are moments where, like, he gets seated and he.

Especially because he's carrying all this anger about what happened to him and, like, you know, the guilt he carries over being responsible for this young person's death. Like, it's like, part of what led him away from believing in anything substantial. And he. That's what he believes and is led to.

His philosophy of, like, everything is random and nothing makes sense and. But it's like, yeah, you see where he's coming from. And. And I. Yeah, I really love those conversations. The acting is just phenomenal.

So there's a lot to tackle there. So, yeah, I love that. Let's get into Father Paul's then a little bit in his story and again, commit, like, later.

Like, why he's not in more stuff is beyond me because he's, I think, one of the best, like, unknown actors today in terms of. I mean, young Christian. He was the voice of Batman in Cape Crusader, which we talked about last year.

Laura Wittman: 00:29:36

Okay.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:29:36

Yeah. Yeah. So, like, a great job. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess what are some key takeaways for y'all from his overall story?

And then obviously, there's a big twist that happens of, like, when we learn that he is actually the original priest that he said he was replacing, but he's gone to the end. That is a brilliant scene, too. But. But just look, even before that twist is unveiled, what are some of your takeaways with his story?

How he's presented and how it connects to the overarching themes of the show?

Christian Ashley: 00:30:08

I really. I really love his character. Like, I just love his character. And like I said, one of the things I love about the show is liturgically, what it gets.

Right. But I also love his sermons and when they show moments when he's preaching. His sermons are so good.

So much so that his Ash Wednesday sermon, I quote every year at Ash Wednesday because it's so good, because he's talking about, like, what it means to have faith. Right? And he gives this compelling argument, probably more so than anything I've ever heard in a TV show or a movie, about why, why faith? And he.

It's my favorite line, not just in this show, but in any show I've ever seen on Netflix, where he says that's what it means to have faith.

That in the darkness and the worst of it, in the absence of light and hope, we sing and, you know, giving reasoning for why we sing the hymns that we do. He's talking about the Psalms, specifically, that the psalms, whether they're psalms of lament, psalms of praise, that they're music.

It's songs written into the scripture. And so we come to church, we hear the word, we sing, and that's how we bring that light into the world. That even in the darkest times, there's hope.

And I think Dumbledore has a quote very similar to that also, that even in the darkest of times, we only have to look towards the light. It was a very Dumbledore esque quote. But I. I just love how he.

So passionately, without being emotionally manipulative, very passionately expresses what faith is to him and why this is so important, so that, like, as you're watching, you're like, yeah, I'd sit in that church and I'd take the elements too, and I'd be one of these people who are burning up in the sun at the end of the movie. Because, like, it is. It's that compelling. But I think at the same time, without blaspheming scripture in a way that media so often does, so his just.

I love it. I love the way he's handled in this and. And you can see why he's successful in doing what he's trying to do in the show.

Laura Wittman: 00:32:11

Yeah, I think for him, even Bev, to. To an extent, there are two people in the church who have been in the church for so long and yet don't understand what it is.

And I don't think they ever actually came to faith at any point in their lives. But regardless of where he came from, he's been around it this entire time. So he knows the words, he knows the right things to say.

Bev knows the right things to say at times, too, but they don't know how to actually apply it. They don't know actually how to bring it to actual believing faith in Jesus or anything like that.

And that's why the seduction that comes with the angel comes in, because he wasn't prepared to fight against it.

He thought he was, but now when actually confronted with this great evil, he sees it as an angel of light rather than what it actually is, which is a demonic entity that is this vampire, however the heck they work in this world. And the idea that a priest could be able to do that, well, that makes perfect sense to me because there are so many people I've.

I've been with people at church that have been in church their entire lives. And I said, there is not one trace of Jesus inside of you. And I don't want to be that.

That guy who's like, okay, you're saved, you're saved, you're saved. That's not what I want to be, but I recognize a lack of fruit. I recognize you're just saying the right thing because you've.

You're repeating the right thing you heard from someone else say. And I think that's kind of what Monsignor Pruitt. Father. Goodness gracious. You said his name earlier, Father Paul.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:33:35

Yeah, yeah.

Laura Wittman: 00:33:36

Is that he's been taught the right things, but he's never actually applied the right things. And now he's got this brand new gospel of a sort. And that's what's really getting him involved because he was kind of done with the church.

He was ready to retire. And now this whole new gospel, as it were, is reinvigorating him. And it's a false doctrine. It's so well played. And I love.

Flanagan is not making fun of religion. He's not making fun of is Islam and the sheriff Hassan as well. He's not making fun of atheists.

He's making fun of people who take beliefs the wrong way and go too far. And I think he's a perfect example of that.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:34:10

And I think a tie in there. So you talk about Lisa earlier, which.

This is another thing I think that Mike Lanka does really well is writing disabled characters because, like, that character could have been easily like.

And there are elements there where I was anything the first time I watched, I was like, oh, God, are they just gonna do like her is like just like overly inspirational and like kind of, you know, like make it really good because, like, she's the paralyzer. And I'm like, he's gonna be really want to know. And they do a really good job of like, giving her depth and. But like.

But the scene when he quote unquote, you know, heals her with like this newfound ability kind of thing. And it like, sends shockwaves to the church and that's when bros. The. His sort of like cult status in the community.

You know, like, that scene I think is where when it starts to show like, oh, there is, you know, like, he's been really charismatic and pull up to this point. But, oh, there's something darker underneath here because this is not going to go well here. But.

But I do love the way he kind of builds relationships with members of the church and you know, ingrain it's himself into the community and.

Yeah, no, I think he said it perfectly in terms of like, I think up until before he goes on his exodus journey and discovers this like, supernatural power and comes back, he is sort of just weary and like beaten down after years and years and wondering kind of what's next. And he wants to make an actual impact. And so that's kind of what sets him on his journey there and then where he discovers the whole vampire element.

But yeah, and so I want to talk about that scene specifically because the first time I saw it, once you realize that like, oh, he is Monsieur Pruitt.

Like, this is another thing where it is so well written and directed here because the camera zooms in on the picture of him and of Pruitt, like, as a younger man and it's playing. This is another thing. The soundtrack is amazing by the Newton Brothers, where.

Especially when they do both hymns and stuff and give renditions of them, but it's playing. Were you there? And it zooms in on.

Oh, oh, but that is a brilliant scene there where it zooms in, it's playing the song and then it comes up and you realize, oh, this is the same person. Such a brilliant revelation there.

Laura Wittman: 00:36:36

Oh, yes. Stellar character writing overall.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:36:39

Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, Well, I know there's so much more. I think we could, like, dive into this series.

I know, like, these are meant to be shorter episodes, but. But just wrapping up, though. Well, first off, real quick, any other thoughts or, like, favorite moments you want to highlight? Real quick.

Laura Wittman: 00:37:00

What can we say that hadn't been said before? Like, check this show out. It's only, what, seven, eight episodes long.

We got solid characters, we've got solid script writing that's very respectful to every religion and belief system that's brought in. That I wouldn't expect from other writers, but I do respect expect from Flanagan. Like, he does his job and he does it well.

Christian Ashley: 00:37:20

Yeah, definitely watch it. This time of year, we're getting ready to, you know, we're heading into the season of Lent.

It's a great time to watch it and reflect and it Listen to the sermons and the things that it has to say because there's some great messages in it. If you can look past the whole, you know, we're talking secretly about a vampire and not really God, but, you know, go for it. It's. It's good.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:37:41

So I think the best times of the year to watch the show are around now. Going like lenses to Easter and then Halloween. It's like perfect. It's just perfect. And then just wrapping up.

If you were to binge another show after this to fill that void of finishing a good series, what would be next?

Laura Wittman: 00:38:00

I mean, it can't hurt to go with some. What is definitely some inspirations for this show.

You gotta go the original: 1970

Christian Ashley: 00:38:14

And this has nothing to do with this show at all. My next personal binge watch.

The thing I'm gonna go back to is Stranger Things because I just got back from a three day Fresh Expressions retreat where my group talked only about DND as a fresh expression. So that was really exciting. So now I'm gonna. I want to go watch Stranger Things again. But that's just what's on my mind.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:38:34

So there is never a bad time to rewatch Stranger Things. It's just.

Christian Ashley: 00:38:37

I agree.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:38:38

Cannot believe we're finally getting season five this year.

Christian Ashley: 00:38:42

I'm so excited.

Kevin Schaeffer: 00:38:43

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'll recommend well really any of the Mike planning shows, but I'll go back to House of last year.

I think this is a great follow up. Even though very different thematically and story wise.

But still, if you get it, if you need to scratch that Flanagan itch, I think that's a perfect one to follow up with. Awesome. Well guys, this has been a fantastic one. I really appreciate you all joining me.

But yeah, for our listeners out there, please rate and review on podschaser, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. We really appreciate the support. And again you can check out the show notes for the playlist of this whole series.

So check that out and remember, we are all a chosen people. A victim of peace.